Jehovah Wittness & their 'sabbath day'

[Guest]

JW is

urk: You may think so; it's always good to come up with a specific, Biblical idea as to why particular things are seen in a certain way.

Blessings.

The list would be too long farouk.

1. They don't believe God the Father is part of a Trinity.
2. They place more emphasis on 'God' than Christ.
3. They believe the Holy Spirit is an 'active force' and not a person.
4. They believe Jesus died on a single upright torture stake rather than the traditional cross.
5. JW teach that Satan and his demons were cast down to earth from heaven after October 1, 1914.
6. There is no Hell of fiery torment; Hades and Sheol are understood to refer to the condition of death, termed the common grave.
7. They never mention the term 'born again christian' in their little cult.
8. They believe God's kingdom was established in heaven in 1914..
9. and that Jehovah's Witnesses serve as representatives of the kingdom on earth, lol.
10. Get off my property JW, and if you come back I'm calling the cops.

 

[jasoncran]

actually the 144,000 thousand are the "moses" for god.the others are serveants to them.that is a recent change to the doctrine. the 144,000 are the only "born again" and they inherit the heavens while all the others are raised into a fleshly body.

 

[Guest]

the 144,000 are the only "born again" and they inherit the heavens while all the others are raised into a fleshly body.

what?? haha.

 

[jasoncran]

ok. I assumed that you knew about the watchtower tract society. the 144,000 are the ruling class in heaven .they are the firstfruits , and they are the mouth of God.they are the only ones that go to heaven. the others that come to the Truth are raised before the millennium to rebuild the earth after the destruction and to teach the survivors the ways of Jehovah if I remember correctly. to be in that bodily resurrection one must be baptized a Jehovah's witness and this is done after not studying the bible, but reading three books. the first is the you can live forever too, the greatest man who ever lived, and the blue book. after finishing these to the satisfication of the elders in your local kingdom hall one is looked over and asked serious questions then undergoes a baptism by water and then declared a Jehovah's witness.

I never went through the second book. they do have a bible but one is discouraged reading it by oneself. the books are there to teach you what the bible says.

 

[Guest]

ok. I assumed that you knew about the watchtower tract society. the 144,000 are the ruling class in heaven .they are the firstfruits , and they are the mouth of God.they are the only ones that go to heaven. the others that come to the Truth are raised before the millennium to rebuild the earth after the destruction and to teach the survivors the ways of Jehovah if I remember correctly. to be in that bodily resurrection one must be baptized a Jehovah's witness and this is done after not studying the bible, but reading three books. the first is the you can live forever too, the greatest man who ever lived, and the blue book. after finishing these to the satisfication of the elders in your local kingdom hall one is looked over and asked serious questions then undergoes a baptism by water and then declared a Jehovah's witness.

I never went through the second book. they do have a bible but one is discouraged reading it by oneself. the books are there to teach you what the bible says.

Is there a book that says Satan is king, because that's obviously who their following.

 

[jeff77]

I think the JW's finally gave up on us. They came to our house so many times and I made the mistake of letting them in (so I could witness to them) and they kept coming back and even pulled out a little schedule and wanted to our phone # in it and set up an appt for next week. At first they act like they agree with the Christian faith. I ask them if my NIV Bible was acceptable to them and they said yes. It wasn't until I read a little of their watch tower magazine that I saw that they were so different.
I don't know much about SDA but I googled them and the wiki encyclopedia says that they are a Protestant Denomination. So I don't see how they are like the JW's at all. Then again I am not an expert on either

 

[jasoncran]

they have some similitaries. I quoted not from the wiki source on ellen g white but from the sda home page. that is where you got confused. go back a few posts and take a gander. the jw are pre mil. just not as we see it.

 

[jasoncran]

well of course they are out there, but their views on satan aren't that far off. remember that the russellites and the shizcms from them is what lead to the jw's. I remember hearing when they did believe that jesus died on the cross instead of the stake and used the kjv bible.

 

[reba]

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


As far as I know the SDA believe Jesus is who He is... JWs do not.

 

[jasoncran]

lord I don't miss that programming.

 

[farouk]

JW is

urk: You may think so; it's always good to come up with a specific, Biblical idea as to why particular things are seen in a certain way.

Blessings.

The list would be too long farouk.

1. They don't believe God the Father is part of a Trinity.
2. They place more emphasis on 'God' than Christ.
3. They believe the Holy Spirit is an 'active force' and not a person.
4. They believe Jesus died on a single upright torture stake rather than the traditional cross.
5. JW teach that Satan and his demons were cast down to earth from heaven after October 1, 1914.
6. There is no Hell of fiery torment; Hades and Sheol are understood to refer to the condition of death, termed the common grave.
7. They never mention the term 'born again christian' in their little cult.
8. They believe God's kingdom was established in heaven in 1914..
9. and that Jehovah's Witnesses serve as representatives of the kingdom on earth, lol.
10. Get off my property JW, and if you come back I'm calling the cops.

urk:

Yes, and more besides, I'm sure.

Blessings.

 

[Elijah674]

Hey young'in, where oh'where have I ever taught such stuff? This is part of your post is it not????

'you yourself have posted that you don't believe in hell and you are a former sda minister.'

--Elijah

you deny that you are a former sda minister or part of it when you post word for word on the fundamentals of what I just posted? to wit the millennium? the idea of the Sabbath which I didn't post but you seem to judge others by it.

20. Sabbath:
The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

odd for someone to argue for a shabat and not be either a jew, a messianic jew or sda.

This is the way that I see it....

'i' see NO human life left upon earth during the 1000 years other than satan & his angels crew. When Christ comes this Second time, all wicked die and are dead! and the dead RIGHTEOUS have their FIRST RESURRECTION & they & the living RIGHTEOUS leave desolate earth for this period of 1000 years. It is after that 1000 years that they all come back to await (SEE!) their
VERDICT'S EXECUTION STAGE
of the FINAL SECOND DEATH

of satan & the pre/judged ALL STILL DEAD ONES [SECOND ETERNAL DEATH ONES]. But first they must have their resurrection, huh?

SO: Before the New Jerusalem set down in her [PROMISED LAND], ALL OF THE WICKED will now have their resurrection! They were already PRE/JUDGED LOST when Christ brought His REWARD WITH HIM at His Second Coming. (Eccl. 12:13-14 Rev. 22:12)

Think of the billions of wicked + fallen angels & satan, these humans come out of the grave the same way that they entered into it, so satan once again is 'LOOSED FROM his prison' (of circumstances Jer. 4) & they still believe this liar from the beginning, & believe that they can take the City of New Jerusalem! (think Matt. 7's Broadway & what NUMBERS mean to these one still!)

Then
FIRE COMES DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN
and cleanses the lower heaven + all of the earth from sin,
SIN + SINNERS!
This is hell & the SECOND 'ETERNAL' DEATH! (see Luke 12:47-48 for the by far worse sinner! + Obadiah 1:16 FINAL OBLITERATION OF SIN + SINNER!)

All of this will take place right before the eyes of the Saints. The EXECUTION of each with it being according to their 'type' of JURY JUDGEMENT which they had a part of! (1 Cor. 6:2-3)

It is then that God recreates the New Heavens & the New Earth & New Jerusalem will sit down in the Promised Land of Zech. 14:1-6

--Elijah

your words and compare them to the above doctrinal statement.

in the left behind at the rapture. thread note the words obliterated. that means what?hell isn't per mainstream doctrine a type of obliteration.

I recall hearing that you were a former sda minister.

Hey, you do not read well? 'FIRE COMES DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN [/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
and cleanses the lower heaven + all of the earth from sin,
SIN + SINNERS!'

This is HELL! See Luke 12:47-48 in Christ's WORD...

[47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

that isn't hell. revalation says that clearly.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

after the fire from heaven comes the judgement not before. you said the this.

Think of the billions of wicked + fallen angels & satan, these humans come out of the grave the same way that they entered into it, so satan once again is 'LOOSED FROM his prison' (of circumstances Jer. 4) & they still believe this liar from the beginning, & believe that they can take the City of New Jerusalem! (think Matt. 7's Broadway & what NUMBERS mean to these one still!)

can you show me where the bible says that the dead sinner can just come out of the grave with satan and fight the new city? that chapter mentions only satan in the abyss. no humans are there. the chapter lists where the souls are, these are:
hades,the sea, the grave and death.

 

[Elijah674]

Hi, I think that this is close enough for your question. (?)

'can you show me where the bible says that the dead sinner can just come out of the grave with satan and fight the new city? that chapter mentions only satan in the abyss. no humans are there. the chapter lists where the souls are, these are:
hades,the sea, the grave and death.'

Rev. 20 has satan sealed by a set of circumstances. (he is bound to a desolate earth) ALL the wicked are dead. After the 1000 years the saints are having a part of this JUDGEMENT (see 1 Cor. 6:2-3) in heaven saved & secure. At the end of 1000 years satan is loose again with the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:5)

And verse 9-10 finds their fate. (compare with Obadiah 1:16 ..'they shall be as they had not been') They had already been pre/judged as lost, (Eccl. 12:13-14) and now are only awaiting their amount of time to be punished.

You could read Jer. 4:22-27 and come up with the same conclusion? The saved are in heaven during this time in verse 27 and satan is chained in the desolate earth. (and verse 23 'I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void: and the heavens, and they had no light.') And verse 22? '.. at the presence of the Lord,..'

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

Hi, I think that this is close enough for your question. (?)

'can you show me where the bible says that the dead sinner can just come out of the grave with satan and fight the new city? that chapter mentions only satan in the abyss. no humans are there. the chapter lists where the souls are, these are:
hades,the sea, the grave and death.'

Rev. 20 has satan sealed by a set of circumstances. (he is bound to a desolate earth) ALL the wicked are dead. After the 1000 years the saints are having a part of this JUDGEMENT (see 1 Cor. 6:2-3) in heaven saved & secure. At the end of 1000 years satan is loose again with the first resurrection. (Rev. 20:5)

And verse 9-10 finds their fate. (compare with Obadiah 1:16 ..'they shall be as they had not been') They had already been pre/judged as lost, (Eccl. 12:13-14) and now are only awaiting their amount of time to be punished.

You could read Jer. 4:22-27 and come up with the same conclusion? The saved are in heaven during this time in verse 27 and satan is chained in the desolate earth. (and verse 23 'I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void: and the heavens, and they had no light.') And verse 22? '.. at the presence of the Lord,..'

--Elijah

uhm, no the dead sinners cant rise up and become alive again. that would well pointless as God having the power is the one who would raise them. he would be damning them twice. they attack the city of Jerusalem on the earth, right and who lives there? the saints.

the word abyss isn't the earth. the word in greek is abyssos. how can the earth be that dark( abyss connotes no light).that means that the saints in Jerusalem who were alive will be on the earth, not heaven since that is usually taught that way. will have no sun nor moon. the saints in the millennium would be in heaven,per your logic, so how could a dead body raise up own its own and attack heaven and yet its not describing a heavenly war?

 

[George Muller]

Another thread by the so-called sabbath keepers? If any of you are willing to really go into the law and look at what all the commanmdnets and rules that the law demands in keeping the sabbath, and will abide by the clear reading of the law, I will accept that you are really interested in keeping the sabbath, and not just a bunch of religious boasting in your easy greasy law keeping. Just ignore the hard rules and pretend to justify yourselves by the easy ones?:naughty

 

[jasoncran]

Another thread by the so-called sabbath keepers? If any of you are willing to really go into the law and look at what all the commanmdnets and rules that the law demands in keeping the sabbath, and will abide by the clear reading of the law, I will accept that you are really interested in keeping the sabbath, and not just a bunch of religious boasting in your easy greasy law keeping. Just ignore the hard rules and pretend to justify yourselves by the easy ones?:naughty

that is why I know the cross devastated the mosaic law in that He fulfilled it to the point we don't have to do that.

 

[George Muller]

Another thread by the so-called sabbath keepers? If any of you are willing to really go into the law and look at what all the commanmdnets and rules that the law demands in keeping the sabbath, and will abide by the clear reading of the law, I will accept that you are really interested in keeping the sabbath, and not just a bunch of religious boasting in your easy greasy law keeping. Just ignore the hard rules and pretend to justify yourselves by the easy ones?:naughty

that is why I know the cross devastated the mosaic law in that He fulfilled it to the point we don't have to do that.

Why dont you as a Jew, help explain to these people all the statues and precepts that are REQUIRED in keeping the sabbath according to written standard that is written in the law?

 

[Elijah674]

Another thread by the so-called sabbath keepers? If any of you are willing to really go into the law and look at what all the commanmdnets and rules that the law demands in keeping the sabbath, and will abide by the clear reading of the law, I will accept that you are really interested in keeping the sabbath, and not just a bunch of religious boasting in your easy greasy law keeping. Just ignore the hard rules and pretend to justify yourselves by the easy ones?:naughty

that is why I know the cross devastated the mosaic law in that He fulfilled it to the point we don't have to do that.

Why do you as a Jew, help explain to these people all the statues and precepts that are REQUIRED in keeping the sabbath according to written standard that is written in the law?

OK! you 'ins' do not even have class enough to wake up to the Lords WORDS of Isaiah 42:21 and... 'The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.' [[[AND IT IS NOT MOSES LAW!]]]

So you are ALL FREE from sin, and there is NO LAW for YOU! And what about all of these others that are dieing all around you as we speak?? Never mind, for you without your 7th Day Sabbath burials. James 2:8-12

But you are the problem!

Go tell tell it to these who live in Oklahoma.

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

Another thread by the so-called sabbath keepers? If any of you are willing to really go into the law and look at what all the commanmdnets and rules that the law demands in keeping the sabbath, and will abide by the clear reading of the law, I will accept that you are really interested in keeping the sabbath, and not just a bunch of religious boasting in your easy greasy law keeping. Just ignore the hard rules and pretend to justify yourselves by the easy ones?:naughty

that is why I know the cross devastated the mosaic law in that He fulfilled it to the point we don't have to do that.

Why do you as a Jew, help explain to these people all the statues and precepts that are REQUIRED in keeping the sabbath according to written standard that is written in the law?

well that is going to be on long thread. lol. while I don't see the need to do the shabat. but if one is going to do it then one's church or rabbi must determine what work is and also what is holy and allowed on the shabat. ie if one is sick then does one drive to the doctor to get well? what if one ran out of food and forgot to stock up. is having one' car fixed on the shabat a sin, since paul says we ought not to tempt men to sin.