Jehovah Wittness & their 'sabbath day'

[jasoncran]

while I like strongs, but its like this.if one were to say do a word study on some Spanish and never spoke it. yet went to a fluent Spanish speaker and tried these things with them. they wouldn't get far. I respect that you agree as I had to learn that lesson too. I don't speak Hebrew, just learned to use the bible for what it does say when it does say it. remember a word in context is different at times from the dictionary!

like the word, or when I say a truth, in slang its the word!

 

[jasoncran]

jasoncran

elohim isn't plural. its a tense in Hebrew that appears to be plural that is merely accentuation. ie the idea of KING of KINGS. that is what the Hebrew means and elohim is a borrowed word from the Chaldean tounge. it means God of a congress of gods.

Thank you Jason, I am aware of that. It is used in a singular form and used for just gods in general. Both the BDB and Strongs have it listed a plural though. In the case of Genesis though, God is speaking to someone who we are in the image of. In this case it would be plural as Strongs suggest.

Those who support a 3-1 Trinity god have used this to prove that all 3 are there. Those that do not support a 3-1 god like myself prove that the Son had always been with the Father and denotes family which we become part of the Godhead Body, not the Godhead without the body.

So Jason, I won't disagree with you, because those that know more about Hebrew than myself can't seem to fully agree.

Mike.


Mike.

the plural being the earth. read that account and consider this. he spoke to the earth and before and things moved.the earth brought forth grass,birds and fish.so why not consider this? that in the book genesis man's image is both of the earth and God? we have a yechida wich is connected to god and also a body which is from the earth. It make sense then doesn't it?

 

[Brother Mike]

Right Jason. I like it simple and it makes perfect sense. I think my point is that the Holy Spirit for some reason picked a Plural name for God among the other more singular names such as "EL" I would have to believe God knew this would cause questioning since the general consensuses is that there is only "One" God. So when I see Let "US" make man in our image, God is speaking to someone here.

So, we also have doctrine such as "Trinity" that take the opportunity to say that the Plural for God shows perfectly all 3 there. The Doctrine helps in the understanding or does not help. My looking at it is that Jesus said he has always been with the Father so we are talking two God's here. That is also a doctrine, perfect or not.

You present a singular understanding to this passage, and perfect explanation for it. It does not seem to hinge on any type of doctrine but a Understanding of the straight language itself. I don't see anything wrong with that, and could not prove any misunderstanding here.

So, when does Doctrine overcome the perfect understanding of a language? I have seen people attempting to use this "understanding" to remove hell from being eternal punishment.

I know that when debating with a JW that is well learned, you have to pull out the stops such as you have shown me. It gets pretty convoluted. Thankfully most are not that Word minded.

Thanx Jason!!

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

on hell, well they would have to ignore that clearly sheol was taught and that its defined and theres jewish teaching on it. Jonah says out of the belly of sheol thou didst deliverest me.well what was that fish for and what is like for him inside it?a punishment?then theres job and other things with teachings on it. keep in mind that the LXX also used the word hades whenever sheol was translated. hades has meanings. God is simple. keep it that way and it all will make sense.

ie if its a grave then word QUEBER is used, ok lets insert that into Jonah. out of the belly of the grave thou didst deliver me. ok so he died? Jonah didn't die cause it says he prayed inside that fish.

 

[jasoncran]

one can use the kaballah to show that there was and is a trinity. really if you take the verses and connect them you will see. Abraham called and knew God as el-shaddai. what did jesus claim to be? i am the great sheppard. to jews the former is also a sheppard.

 

[George Muller]

one can use the kaballah to show that there was and is a trinity.

You do understand that the kaballah is one of the most satanic books ever written, dont you?

 

[jasoncran]

one can use the kaballah to show that there was and is a trinity.

.

You do understand that the kaballah is one of the most satanic books ever written, dont you?

oh and where did the idea of 666 come from? or the three and seven that when in ad 70's jews of today know that they were judged for that number means something to them.

kaballah isn't a book. it never was. its old and its part of the oral traditions. do I agree with it all? NO. I use that system to go to the very scripture where it says. I will put my name in my angel, hint the angel of the lord. that points to the messiah in the kaballah. jesus claimed that title named el-shaddai is where that is from.

oh yea real satanic them Chassidic jews when they teach sexual purity, sex for marriage and abortion is a sin,. don't confuse Madonna with the kaballah.

 

[George Muller]

one can use the kaballah to show that there was and is a trinity.

.

You do understand that the kaballah is one of the most satanic books ever written, dont you?

oh and where did the idea of 666 come from? or the three and seven that when in ad 70's jews of today know that they were judged for that number means something to them.

kaballah isn't a book. it never was. its old and its part of the oral traditions. do I agree with it all? NO. I use that system to go to the very scripture where it says. I will put my name in my angel, hint the angel of the lord. that points to the messiah in the kaballah. jesus claimed that title named el-shaddai is where that is from.

oh yea real satanic them Chassidic jews when they teach sexual purity, sex for marriage and abortion is a sin,. don't confuse Madonna with the kaballah.

Is there another book called the kabballah? The book is satanic and only evil and satanic people would set aside the bible and promote this great evil book.

 

[jasoncran]

no that isn't a book. you are thinking of the Zohar. I don't quote that. the gemetria is in the kabbalah and well most chrsitians believe that 7 is the holy number of god? right? that is in the gemetria. so I shouldn't use that to point things out to a jew?

666 is from the gemetria which is part of the kabbalah. Hebrew is a pictographic language which is also in the kaballah.i may do a thread on the name of el-shaddai and show you the pictographs used to mention him. aleph is one and that is the symbol of a bull. meaning that God is strong and mighty.

 

[George Muller]

no that isn't a book. you are thinking of the Zohar. I don't quote that. the gemetria is in the kabbalah and well most chrsitians believe that 7 is the holy number of god? right? that is in the gemetria. so I shouldn't use that to point things out to a jew?

666 is from the gemetria which is part of the kabbalah. Hebrew is a pictographic language which is also in the kaballah.i may do a thread on the name of el-shaddai and show you the pictographs used to mention him. aleph is one and that is the symbol of a bull. meaning that God is strong and mighty.

So what, if the book has some information about 666,? What does that prove? The book is satanic, and only those who reject the Holy Scriptures seek any wisdom from this satanic book.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jason:

one can use the kaballah to show that there was and is a trinity. really if you take the verses and connect them you will see. Abraham called and knew God as el-shaddai. what did jesus claim to be? i am the great sheppard. to jews the former is also a sheppard.

Thank you Jason. When we start to get into Other books to prove Scripture, like passages from Dr. Seuss, then your going to lose me. I am not Catholic, so I don't see "Other" books as authoritative.

George Muller

Thank you for your insight and stepping in.

 

[jasoncran]

no that isn't a book. you are thinking of the Zohar. I don't quote that. the gemetria is in the kabbalah and well most chrsitians believe that 7 is the holy number of god? right? that is in the gemetria. so I shouldn't use that to point things out to a jew?

666 is from the gemetria which is part of the kabbalah. Hebrew is a pictographic language which is also in the kaballah.i may do a thread on the name of el-shaddai and show you the pictographs used to mention him. aleph is one and that is the symbol of a bull. meaning that God is strong and mighty.

So what, if the book has some information about 666,? What does that prove? The book is satanic, and only those who reject the Holy Scriptures seek any wisdom from this satanic book.

uhm why is the idea 666 demonic if it points out the devil? so its bad if we use numerology? I didn't know that. I guess I best erase 12, 70, 6, 3,4,5 from the bible. have at it. oh can you reconcile where paul gets the names of the men whom resisted moses? don't use the tanach, as well its not found in it. hmm. or what about that idea of sheol? what is sheol if its not found by definition? where is it then? if we have words in the bible then we need to be able to understand them? right? where does one go to get the right perspective on sheol?

 

[George Muller]

why is the idea 666 demonic if it points out the devil? so its bad if we use numerology?

I said the "book" is used by most every satanist I have ever heard of, just because it teaches some stuff about numerology does not mean its satanic power is not also at work. I could post some of the demonic crap this book promotes, but I am afraid we would be off topic. If you have a real Christain leader, that you trust, maybe you should ask him to study this issue out with you? Start a thread on the issue and I will give you some info myself.

 

[Elijah674]

why is the idea 666 demonic if it points out the devil? so its bad if we use numerology?

I said the "book" is used by most every satanist I have ever heard of, just because it teaches some stuff about numerology does not mean its satanic power is not also at work. I could post some of the demonic crap this book promotes, but I am afraid we would be off topic. If you have a real Christain leader, that you trust, maybe you should ask him to study this issue out with you? Start a thread on the issue and I will give you some info myself.

satan teaches sun worship along with his witnesses, but that is ok with you. Eze. 8
[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Whatever???

--Elijah

 

[George Muller]

satan teaches sun worship along with his witnesses, but that is ok with you.

This is a blantant personal attack. Because I expose your false doctrines. All who live Godly will suffer percecution.

 

[Elijah674]

satan teaches sun worship along with his witnesses, but that is ok with you.

This is a blantant personal attack. Because I expose your false doctrines. All who live Godly will suffer percecution.

satan teaches sun worship... is an attack? No names are mentioned. Perhaps this person has a guilty conscience? But pray tell, who is alive today that DOES teach that sun worship does only worship satan?

--Elijah

 

[George Muller]

satan teaches sun worship along with his witnesses, but that is ok with you.

This is a blantant personal attack. Because I expose your false doctrines. All who live Godly will suffer percecution.

satan teaches sun worship... is an attack? No names are mentioned. Perhaps this person has a guilty conscience? But pray tell, who is alive today that DOES teach that sun worship does only worship satan?

--Elijah

Well, I think anyone can see your method is to attack and insult. I guess I will rejoice in my blessing

Mt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

 

[jasoncran]

Elijah, well if you are so worried about sunday worship.then why is it in English only that sunday is used? ie in Spanish its Domingo, and all the other romantic languages have a similar word.thus its original connotation of Lord, as in Lord's day. wow that is real satanic in it.I may embrace some of the stuff that jews do,but I don't force You or any other to do it. that is biblical and Paul spoke of it in romans 14. esteeming a day is about the feasts and aslo the Sabbath.