Jesus alone saves?

[Orthodoxy]

Nocturnal_Principal_X

Before one knows or accepts Jesus Christ they are dead spiritually.

Which is it? Know or accept? How does a dead man know anything? If this is true then only the Holy Spirit can lead a man to Christ like my original post claims.

Once someone accepts Jesus Christ they receives salvation and their spirit is reborn.

Scritpture referance please stating these exact words.

Upon accepting Jesus Christ one receives the Holy Spirit.

Scritpture referance please stating these exact words. I cannot find "accept Jesus Christ and you will recieve the Holy Spirit". I do however read the words spoken by Peter in Acts 2:38-39:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto YOU, and to YOUR CHILDREN, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Peter I know. You I do not know. Who am I to believe, you or Peter?

The Holy Spirit convicts and changes the person and frees them from sin and the natural desire to do it.

I have seen AA do the same thing. How can I be sure this "Holy Spirit" you speak of is the Holy Spirit leading and guiding the Church?

Once this is done the individual does works showing their saved state, however; their works do not save them…only God does that.

Ahh grace + some works save. Got ya. What commanded "doings" must a saved christian do to show "their saved state" in this invisible nebulas "church"?

Adam’s sin brought sin into the world and also passed on sin to his offspring. His sin corrupted the world and everything in it, including the human body. As a result humans are prone to sin. As long as one remains alive they will be affected by their imperfect and corrupt body. Thankfully, Jesus’ sacrifice freed men from sin when they accept him and the Holy Spirit works within the saved to fight the sin nature and corrupt human body. One will always sin while they remain on earth but a saved person now has the desire and conviction to not sin, provided by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I agree with most of this yet I still cannot find this "Jesus’ sacrifice freed men from sin when they accept him" acceptance speach any place in the bible. Can you show me a scripture that says "accept Jesus Christ to be saved". Thanks

The above of course is what I gather from the Bible. Take some time and read Romans and James to gain a better understanding of the nature of works.

You are not implying that none of us have read the bible are you? Arent you preaching to the "choir" with most of this, after all arent we all one big happy ecumenical family?

The bottom line is simple God does the saving and nothing we do, be it work or deeds, saves. This single fact is one the biggest and greatest diction Christianity has over other religions.

What a great race! Paul was kind a little behind the Protestant times was he not? Hey Paul forget fighting a good fight I got my jesus to fight for me. Praise the lord. Why did Paul bother penning the words "run a good race" if Jesus runs the race for us?

Jesus lets you run the race and when you tire or fall He helps one back on their own feet. Do you really think God is interested in a bunch of "do nothings"? I think laziness is a sin, sloth I believe is the word for it.

Orthodoxy

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Yes wow. I read the bible and that's getting me in alot of trouble I guess.

No...just your understanding!

 

[von]

I'm not calling anyone swines, I'm just quoting the scripture.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Can you name someone who thinks we save ourselves INSTEAD of Christ. You think in dichotomies. You raise straw men and distort our views. You deny the power of God's working in us through his grace to produce in some thirty, some sixty, and some 100 fold.

It's all over this forum friend. You think it's a strawman? Well listen here, dorothy, I see nothing but arguments about law and commandments and works here. I have always said, since I've been on this forum, that it all comes from God. I have done NOTHING but give GOD THE GLORY in all that I do. And yet I'm argued with.

What exactly are people arguing? That God has the glory? How hard is it to realise that IT'S NOT YOU!!!!! Well actually, pretty hard when you've been indoctrinated by false doctrine designed to 'control' men. I know all about that - having grown up in a church such as that. Almost cost me my life but by the grace of God...I was saved. GLORY BE TO GOD.

Merry and Heidi- Can't you see you are wasting your time on these comments. The Bible says, don't cast your pearls before the swine. People who want to come on and try to tell us that there is another way to Heaven except through Jesus don't even deserve our acknowledgment. Right ladies?

Well, I see what you're saying but I believe differently. I don't see it as a waste of my time, for if someone hadn't 'wasted their time' on me then I'd be still back where I was...probably arguing along side them. But a seed was planted, long ago, a seed, that over time was watered and fertilised by God and it grew and it's still growing to this day. So no, I don't see it as a waste.

I do think that they do acknowledge that it's Christ that saves, but there's a difference between talking the talk and walking the talk. I hear it, but I just don't see it. They believe in their minds that Christ is the one who saves them and that God is the one responsible for all their wonderful deeds they keep going on about...but they don't know it in their heart. For if they did, they'd be giving God the glory.

 

[Heidi]

Merry and Heidi- Can't you see you are wasting your time on these comments. The Bible says, don't cast your pearls before the swine. People who want to come on and try to tell us that there is another way to Heaven except through Jesus don't even deserve our acknowledgment. Right ladies?

I agree, which is why I left for so long. I came back to see if there was less false teaching here but have found out there is not. So I've been posting on other forums for the most part.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

So have I!

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Which is it? Know or accept?

My mistake, accepts or believes in him (both accept and believe connotes the same thing)

How does a dead man know anything?

Well, considering I said spiritually dead and not physically dead I think my point is quite clear.

If this is true then only the Holy Spirit can lead a man to Christ like my original post claims.

Ok, I never disagreed with that. What I am disagreeing with are people who say one must do works in order to be saved.

Oh and John 3:3,7 and 1 Peter 1:23 contain the words “born again,†(I just decided to use reborn for some reason to say reborn but it means the same thing)

Scritpture referance please stating these exact words. I cannot find "accept Jesus Christ and you will recieve the Holy Spirit". I do however read the words spoken by Peter in Acts 2:38-39:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto YOU, and to YOUR CHILDREN, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Well, I obviously used my own words and phrases but what I said connotes the something.

I have seen AA do the same thing. How can I be sure this "Holy Spirit" you speak of is the Holy Spirit leading and guiding the Church?

I suggest you look in the New Testament it clearly states, not in the exact words I used of course (considering it’s my own words) but it connotes the same thing.

Ahh grace + some works save. Got ya. What commanded "doings" must a saved christian do to show "their saved state" in this invisible nebulas "church"?

Obviously you did not get me. I did not say “grace + some works. What I said is that works will show another that they are saved. As James clearly shows that a saved person will provide fruit, i.e. good works; however, those works do not save the person.

Adam’s sin brought sin into the world and also passed on sin to his offspring. His sin corrupted the world and everything in it, including the human body. As a result humans are prone to sin. As long as one remains alive they will be affected by their imperfect and corrupt body. Thankfully, Jesus’ sacrifice freed men from sin when they accept him and the Holy Spirit works within the saved to fight the sin nature and corrupt human body. One will always sin while they remain on earth but a saved person now has the desire and conviction to not sin, provided by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I agree with most of this yet I still cannot find this "Jesus’ sacrifice freed men from sin when they accept him" acceptance speach any place in the bible. Can you show me a scripture that says "accept Jesus Christ to be saved". Thanks

Ok now this is just getting ridicules. Obviously “believes in Christ†and “Accepts†mean the same thing, if you believe in Christ you obviously accept Him.

You are not implying that none of us have read the bible are you? Arent you preaching to the "choir" with most of this, after all arent we all one big happy ecumenical family?

No, I am not implying anything. I am simply stating that what I said I got from the Bible…that is it.

The bottom line is simple God does the saving and nothing we do, be it work or deeds, saves. This single fact is one the biggest and greatest diction Christianity has over other religions.

What a great race! Paul was kind a little behind the Protestant times was he not? Hey Paul forget fighting a good fight I got my jesus to fight for me. Praise the lord. Why did Paul bother penning the words "run a good race" if Jesus runs the race for us?

Jesus lets you run the race and when you tire or fall He helps one back on their own feet. Do you really think God is interested in a bunch of "do nothings"? I think laziness is a sin, sloth I believe is the word for it.

Ok I don’t know the point of the rest of this is. I never made any statement about doing nothing.

 

[Orthodoxy]

Nocturnal_Principal_X

My mistake, accepts or believes in him (both accept and believe connotes the same thing)

Ok. Now show me a scripture that says "Believe and you will recieve the Holy Spirit". Here again Peter says "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". Who am I to believe Peter or someone that is using his "own words and phrases but what I said connotes the something". HUH? We can change the words in the bible to "connote something in our own words"?

What I am disagreeing with are people who say one must do works in order to be saved.

Where did I say "works save"? Fact is I have not seen anyone use that phrase. I think protestant prognostications have you parroting what you have heard.

Oh and John 3:3,7 and 1 Peter 1:23 contain the words “born again,†(I just decided to use reborn for some reason to say reborn but it means the same thing)

Yes and Peter tells us how that happens in Acts 2:38-39:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto YOU, and to YOUR CHILDREN, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.[/quote]

Well, I obviously used my own words and phrases but what I said connotes the something.

Well your own words condemn you for changing the bible. Who gave you authority to "use your own words and phrases" to tell people what Peter really meant? I cannot find any referance in the bible that says it is okie dokie to lean on your own understanding.

I have seen AA do the same thing. How can I be sure this "Holy Spirit" you speak of is the Holy Spirit leading and guiding the Church?

I suggest you look in the New Testament it clearly states, not in the exact words I used of course (considering it’s my own words) but it connotes the same thing.

You dodged the question. I asked "How can I be sure this "Holy Spirit" you speak of is the Holy Spirit leading and guiding the Church"? How can I be sure you possess the authentic Holy Spirit? If you speak by the "Holy Spirit" of doctrines contrary to what the Holy Spirit in the Church says then who am I to believe?

Ahh grace + some works save. Got ya. What commanded "doings" must a saved christian do to show "their saved state" in this invisible nebulas "church"?

Obviously you did not get me. I did not say “grace + some works. What I said is that works will show another that they are saved. As James clearly shows that a saved person will provide fruit, i.e. good works; however, those works do not save the person.

Ahh works prove one is really a Christian. So there is a litmus test to be deemed "born again". Interesting. So who judges a work "good" or "bad" to be deemed a "good" christian and not a "bad" Christian?

Adam’s sin brought sin into the world and also passed on sin to his offspring. His sin corrupted the world and everything in it, including the human body. As a result humans are prone to sin. As long as one remains alive they will be affected by their imperfect and corrupt body. Thankfully, Jesus’ sacrifice freed men from sin when they accept him and the Holy Spirit works within the saved to fight the sin nature and corrupt human body. One will always sin while they remain on earth but a saved person now has the desire and conviction to not sin, provided by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I agree with most of this yet I still cannot find this "Jesus’ sacrifice freed men from sin when they accept him" acceptance speach any place in the bible. Can you show me a scripture that says "accept Jesus Christ to be saved". Thanks

Ok now this is just getting ridicules. Obviously “believes in Christ†and “Accepts†mean the same thing, if you believe in Christ you obviously accept Him.

Ok so "believe" means what? Is it possible to "believe" in a false Jesus? Here again "believe" is a nebulas concept that few protestants can define what the Church believes to be saved.

You are not implying that none of us have read the bible are you? Arent you preaching to the "choir" with most of this, after all arent we all one big happy ecumenical family?

No, I am not implying anything. I am simply stating that what I said I got from the Bible…that is it.

No. You already admitted you "used your own words and phrases" so which is it? Is "believe" also another "own understanding" type of thing?

The bottom line is simple God does the saving and nothing we do, be it work or deeds, saves. This single fact is one the biggest and greatest diction Christianity has over other religions.

[quote:da35f]What a great race! Paul was kind a little behind the Protestant times was he not? Hey Paul forget fighting a good fight I got my jesus to fight for me. Praise the lord. Why did Paul bother penning the words "run a good race" if Jesus runs the race for us?

Jesus lets you run the race and when you tire or fall He helps one back on their own feet. Do you really think God is interested in a bunch of "do nothings"? I think laziness is a sin, sloth I believe is the word for it.

Ok I don’t know the point of the rest of this is. I never made any statement about doing nothing.[/quote:da35f][/quote]

The bottom line is simple God does the saving and nothing we do, be it work or deeds, saves.

"We do nothing" If this is truth then why does God play this game of "acceptance" and "believe" to be saved when we do nothing to gain salvation?

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

D46,

As for being called a saint or referred to as a saint, I don't know about anyone else but I for sure don't consider myself a saint. However, that's what the word of God says, nevertheless. Who am I to refute His word. I don't feel worthy in the least to be called a saint. Like most, I still suffer from guilt still from things from the past and I know that's just a trick of satan to undermind God's grace and forgiveness. Still, God's word is true. According to the scriptures, anyone who believes in the testimony of Christ, is a follower of his teachings and believes he died upon the cross as penalty for our sins and has accepted the teachings of his Apostles, is a saint. That's my definition alone.

I see. We can now lean on our own understanding and make up our own definitions. Interesting.

Php 1:1 (KJV) Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Bishops and deacons in "the Church" GASP! You mean you have a bishop or only saints have bishops?

1Co 1:2 (KJV) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

The Church of God? The Church with Bishops and Deacons? This is to them that are sanctified "in the Church".

If we are worthy to be called by his name, we are worthy to be called saints, whether we feel like one or not. Long ago I discovered I couldn't rely on feelings alone as to what my relationship with God was. I had to base it on His word and not how I felt day to day. I would have went under years ago if I based it on feelings.

Yet you have your own personal definitions apart from the Church. Interesting.

This is the one baptism found in the one Church initiated originally by John the Baptist and expounded upon by Jesus Christ during His ministry to the Apostles.

There is but one Lord, one faith, and one baptism...Ephesians 4:5. The one Lord, Jesus Christ, the one faith and belief Christ taught the Apostles, and one baptism...submersion in water (one time not three) with the methodology used by the exclaimation of Peter in Acts 2:38. This is the simple formula and not that of Justin Martyr in the second century when this was changed to "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost".The bible has no record of anyone being sprinkled, ducked under three times, or baptised with this trinity formula. Everywhere in the oldest sources it states the baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.

ahh you are a Anti Trinitarian "christian". So you deny the words of Jesus Christ then? Matthew 28:19. Let me guess that was added eh? How about Mark 16:16 where Jesus says "He that believes and is baptised shall be saved". So far Peter, Mark and Paul have refuted your own personal opine on the definition of how one enters the Church. You say "believe". The bible and the fathers of the Church say "believe and be baptised".

Encyclopedia Britannica Vol 3 p.82
Encyclopedia Britannica Vol 3 11 Edition pp. 365-366
Canney Encyclopedia of Religion p. 53
Hasting's Encyclopedia of Religion Vol 2 p. 377-378

Encyclopedias now trump the Holy Scripture? Really. Do I look that ignorant? Do you understand these Encyclopedias are not written by the Church? How can you trust them?

The fulness of Jesus Christ saves?

Yep.[/quote]

Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the CHURCH, Which is his BODY, the FULNESS of him that filleth all in all.

Acts 2:47, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the CHURCH daily such as should be saved.

Now one must define the "fullness of Jesus Christ", the Church. Are you the fulness of Jesus Christ? No. So you are not the Church. Who adds to the Church those that would be saved? It would appear Jesus Christ is the Church and the Church is Jesus Christ.

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

I'm not calling anyone swines, I'm just quoting the scripture.

I did not just fall off the turnip truck. You address your cronies about speaking to us "swine" on this thread did you not?

You are "quoting" scripture to manipulate and condemn. I call this activity protestant christian witchcraft.

Not only are you a liar, you are gutless to admit you are calling those your cronies are debating "swine".

At least be honest in your pathetic condemnation of those you cannot convince about your "personalized burgerkingjesus". Pearls indeed. Swine indeed!

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

Merry and Heidi- Can't you see you are wasting your time on these comments. The Bible says, don't cast your pearls before the swine. People who want to come on and try to tell us that there is another way to Heaven except through Jesus don't even deserve our acknowledgment. Right ladies?

I agree, which is why I left for so long. I came back to see if there was less false teaching here but have found out there is not. So I've been posting on other forums for the most part.

Why dont you and your cronies leave us "swine" alone and go stroke each other about your "personalized burgerkingjesus" on another site that agrees with you?

Orthodoxy

 

[Vic C.]

Everyone... please refrain from personal insults and... retaliation. We don't want to give this thread a "time out". 8-)

Thanks.

 

[D46]

So you deny the words of Jesus Christ then? Matthew 28:19. Let me guess that was added eh? How about Mark 16:16 where Jesus says "He that believes and is baptised shall be saved". So far Peter, Mark and Paul have refuted your own personal opine on the definition of how one enters the Church. You say "believe". The bible and the fathers of the Church say "believe and be baptised".

No, no...I definitely do not deny the words of the Lord. That's not denying or refuting Matthew 28:19 at all. I have $500 to give to anyone who can tell me of anywhere anyone was ever baptised using the formula of Father, Son and Holy Ghost in the Scriptures. Again,Jesus told the Apostles to baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. They merely obeyed that command by doing as he indicated. What is the name of the Father? Jesus. Obviously, the Son's name is Jesus. The Holy Ghost is Jesus. So, they did as he commanded them to do.

Peter obeyed...Acts 2:38 (KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Samaritans were baptised...Acts 8:16 (KJV) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

The Gentiles were commanded...Acts 10:48 (KJV) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

No other name under heaven...Acts 4:12 (KJV) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Paul rebaptised...Acts 19:5 (KJV) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Finally, everything is done in the name of Jesus...Colossians 3:17 (KJV) And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles of position. Peter commanded those around him to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Father is not a name. Most of us are fathers, but; that's not our name. We are sons, that's not a name.

Neither do I refute Mark 16:16. I do believe that according to this scripture, baptism is a part of the plan of salvation. It is part of the teachngs of the Apostles faith. We're that not so, Peter wouldn't have commanded it, nor would the Apostle Paul thought it necessary to rebaptise some of John's followers. They had NOT been baptised properly or Paul would not have urged them to be baptized again. Therefore, I can only surmise it must be a necessary part of salvation and the methodology is just as important or it wouldn't have been mentioned so many times.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Orthodoxy,

First I have to say are acting ridiculous. You strike me as a person who like to argue just for the sake of arguing. In any event I will try to address you ridiculous rebuttals.

Ok. Now show me a scripture that says "Believe and you will recieve the Holy Spirit".

Ok now does the Bible put it exactly they way I put it no, show how did I come to the conclusion. First I prayed about it and asked the Holy Spirit to reveal it to me. Then with the power of Holy Spirit and simple God given reason I derived at the words “receive the Holy Spirit.â€Â

So how do I come to that logically? Well an unsaved person does not have Jesus or the Holy Spirit obviously. So since Jesus states in the following verses: Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, John 14:15-30, Acts 2:38-39 , the coming of the Holy Spirit unto believers the conclusion that one receives the Holy Spirit after believing in Jesus Christ make sense.

Who am I to believe Peter or someone that is using his "own words and phrases but what I said connotes the something". HUH? We can change the words in the bible to "connote something in our own words"?

Is my statement, “believe in Christ and receive the Holy Spirit?†incorrect logically or scripturally…no. Also what I am saying is not out of context either, therefore my statement while not exact to the Bible says has the same meaning.

Where did I say "works save"? Fact is I have not seen anyone use that phrase. I think protestant prognostications have you parroting what you have heard.

My statements in my original post were for anyone who reads the boards. It was not directed at anyone specifically. It is well know that on this board that there have been in the past some people who say to the contrary…in fact even the Catholic Church at one point, and actually still today, says grace and works is required for salvation. So I was addressing that. It seems you have a bit of an arrogance, and egocentric view, probable and therefore you think everything someone says is directed directly at you. I was posting on the topic and giving my views.

Well your own words condemn you for changing the bible. Who gave you authority to "use your own words and phrases" to tell people what Peter really meant? I cannot find any referance in the bible that says it is okie dokie to lean on your own understanding.

No not at all really. My words convey the same theology found in the Bible period. Now if what I said in any shape or form was contrary to what the Bible says then I would understand your problem, however; it seems to me your just arguing and finding problems with what I said for the sake of argument. Another thing to consider is the fact that the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible (it is implied though), does that therefore make it unbiblical no.

You dodged the question. I asked "How can I be sure this "Holy Spirit" you speak of is the Holy Spirit leading and guiding the Church"? How can I be sure you possess the authentic Holy Spirit? If you speak by the "Holy Spirit" of doctrines contrary to what the Holy Spirit in the Church says then who am I to believe?

Well I don’t speak of doctrine contrary to what the Bible speaks of.

Ahh works prove one is really a Christian. So there is a litmus test to be deemed "born again". Interesting. So who judges a work "good" or "bad" to be deemed a "good" christian and not a "bad" Christian?

Read James. Works provide a clue, and to judge whither a work is good or not is well just simple logic really. If what someone does is contrary to the Bible then it is obviously a bad work. God judges the soul period.

Ok so "believe" means what? Is it possible to "believe" in a false Jesus? Here again "believe" is a nebulas concept that few protestants can define what the Church believes to be saved.

Yes it is possible to believe in the wrong Jesus, but the Jesus I speak of is from the Bible. I don’t care what the Orthodoxy Church or Catholic Church teaches my final authority is the Bible alone, of course a lot of what both churches teach is from the Bible.

No. You already admitted you "used your own words and phrases" so which is it? Is "believe" also another "own understanding" type of thing?

I have already explained this. I have learned one thing so far, in order to discuss anything with you I must use exact phrases from the Bible or you will have a problem.

You "We do nothing" If this is truth then why does God play this game of "acceptance" and "believe" to be saved when we do nothing to gain salvation?

Well, sorry but that is how it works. God does the saving we don’t. If one does as John 3:16 says then they are saved pure and simple….that is what the Bible says and that is they way it is.

One thing is clear you don’t like Protestants very much, so you nit pick with them, well I could do the same thing with Catholics and Orthodox Christians but I don’t. I have better things to do. At this point I see that we are going to continue to go in circles so I am done responding to you for a while, I'm not in the mood to debate things with you.

 

[thessalonian]

Merry and Heidi- Can't you see you are wasting your time on these comments. The Bible says, don't cast your pearls before the swine. People who want to come on and try to tell us that there is another way to Heaven except through Jesus don't even deserve our acknowledgment. Right ladies?

I agree, which is why I left for so long. I came back to see if there was less false teaching here but have found out there is not. So I've been posting on other forums for the most part.

How do you discern what is and isn't false teaching? I know, the Bible? But really in all seriousness, isn't it really your interprutation of the Bible that you use to discern these things? Be honest.

 

[PHIL121]

Here's what William McDonald has to say in his Emmaus Correspondence Course on the Book of James about the Faith vs. Works debate:

"Grace is the principle on which God justifies; faith is the means through which man recieves it; blood is the price he Savior had to pay; God is the active Agent in justification; and works are the result.

This is beautifully expressed in the lines by Helen Shaw:

God's sov'reign grace slected me
To have in heav'n a place;
'twas the good pleasure of His Will;
I'm justified by Grace.

In due time Christ on Calv'ry died;
There flowed that crimson flood
Which makes the foulest white as snow;
I'm justified by blood.

God raised him up; this is the pledge,
Should evil doubtings low'r,
His resurrection quells each fear;
I'm justified by pow'r.

The Holy Spirit guided me
To what the Scripture saith;
I grasped the Truth; Christ died for me!
I'm justified by faith.

Now if you doubt that I am Christ's
If one suspicion lurks,
I'll show by deed that I am His,
I'm justified by works.

I prasie the Lord, 'tis all of Him,
The grace, the faith, the blood,
The resurrection pow'r, the works.
I'm justified by God.

 

[Solo]

Merry and Heidi- Can't you see you are wasting your time on these comments. The Bible says, don't cast your pearls before the swine. People who want to come on and try to tell us that there is another way to Heaven except through Jesus don't even deserve our acknowledgment. Right ladies?

I agree, which is why I left for so long. I came back to see if there was less false teaching here but have found out there is not. So I've been posting on other forums for the most part.

How do you discern what is and isn't false teaching? I know, the Bible? But really in all seriousness, isn't it really your interprutation of the Bible that you use to discern these things? Be honest.

Those who have been born of the Spirit of God know false teaching as they are transformed by the renewing of their mind with the Word, as opposed to being conformed to the world. Any institution that teaches another gospel than the one that Jesus taught is guilty of teaching false doctrines. The Roman Catholic Church is a great example of this.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Merry and Heidi- Can't you see you are wasting your time on these comments. The Bible says, don't cast your pearls before the swine. People who want to come on and try to tell us that there is another way to Heaven except through Jesus don't even deserve our acknowledgment. Right ladies?

I agree, which is why I left for so long. I came back to see if there was less false teaching here but have found out there is not. So I've been posting on other forums for the most part.

How do you discern what is and isn't false teaching? I know, the Bible? But really in all seriousness, isn't it really your interprutation of the Bible that you use to discern these things? Be honest.

Those who have been born of the Spirit of God know false teaching as they are transformed by the renewing of their mind with the Word, as opposed to being conformed to the world. Any institution that teaches another gospel than the one that Jesus taught is guilty of teaching false doctrines. The Roman Catholic Church is a great example of this.

Your proof of the veracity of your doctrine is your say-so. Your proof that others are wrong is that they disagree with you.

ecce homo

 

[thessalonian]

Here's what William McDonald has to say in his Emmaus Correspondence Course on the Book of James about the Faith vs. Works debate:

"Grace is the principle on which God justifies; faith is the means through which man recieves it; blood is the price he Savior had to pay; God is the active Agent in justification; and works are the result.

Yes, man recieves grace THROUGH faith. But man is not to be a dead end for grace. Thus faith MUST work out in love. Faith without works is dead.

 

[Solo]

Merry and Heidi- Can't you see you are wasting your time on these comments. The Bible says, don't cast your pearls before the swine. People who want to come on and try to tell us that there is another way to Heaven except through Jesus don't even deserve our acknowledgment. Right ladies?

I agree, which is why I left for so long. I came back to see if there was less false teaching here but have found out there is not. So I've been posting on other forums for the most part.

How do you discern what is and isn't false teaching? I know, the Bible? But really in all seriousness, isn't it really your interprutation of the Bible that you use to discern these things? Be honest.

Those who have been born of the Spirit of God know false teaching as they are transformed by the renewing of their mind with the Word, as opposed to being conformed to the world. Any institution that teaches another gospel than the one that Jesus taught is guilty of teaching false doctrines. The Roman Catholic Church is a great example of this.

Your proof of the veracity of your doctrine is your say-so. Your proof that others are wrong is that they disagree with you.

ecce homo

My say so doesn't mean anything unless it aligns with the Word of God. Others who contradict the Word of God are in disagreement with me. If you teach a false doctrine, I will know it by the Holy Spirit that lives within me since my born again, born of above experience. Perhaps you too will be born again one day, and we can then become brothers in Christ.