Jesus came back.. and Destroyed Jerusalem

[whirlwind]

Jeff...we ARE Israel. We are the lost sheep. He is still working in us turning us into the sons of God.

That was about land based Israel. ;) The 12 disciples wouldn't be finished going through the cities of the land of Israel before Jesus came back. The 12 disciples are dead, so, Jesus must have come back like he said. ;)

No Jeff....His Word continues. It didn't stop then. We are Israel and it is about us. We are His disciples. He is IN US.

 

[whirlwind]

Actually Jesus caused the house of Israel to be desolate even before He was crucified.

What?

 

[RND]

Jesus said that when he came back, he would destroy the husbandmen (rulers) who looked after his vineyard, take the kingdom of God from them, and give it to someone else.

Actually, Jesus didn't say that. Jesus was making a parable, comparing the all the things God had done for the children of Israel with being a householder loaning out His vineyard.

Forty years later, the husbandmen were killed when the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem.

Actually Jesus caused the house of Israel to be desolate even before He was crucified.

[quote:236nvs6l]Thus, Jesus must have come back when they were killed.

That's what one would call circular logic and it has no place in the reality of the Bible.

Then Jesus was wrong[/quote:236nvs6l] Or your understanding is.

 

[RND]

Actually Jesus caused the house of Israel to be desolate even before He was crucified.

What?

Luk 13:34 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not! Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

House = oikos = of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.

Desolate = eremos = of uncertain affinity; lonesome, i.e. (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, cwra - chora 5561 being implied):--desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.

 

[researcher]

Or your understanding is.

Jesus stood in front of the disciples and told them this

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next:

1. for verily (truly) I say unto you,

2. Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,

3. till the Son of man be come.

Either he came back before they finished going through Israel, or they are constantly being reincarnated.

 

[whirlwind]

Or your understanding is.

Jesus stood in front of the disciples and told them this

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next:

1. for verily (truly) I say unto you,

2. Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,

3. till the Son of man be come.

Either he came back before they finished going through Israel, or they are constantly being reincarnated.

His disciples are never ending...until the end. We are His disciples as those before us were.

 

[whirlwind]

Actually Jesus caused the house of Israel to be desolate even before He was crucified.

What?

Luk 13:34 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not! Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

House = oikos = of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.

Desolate = eremos = of uncertain affinity; lonesome, i.e. (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, cwra - chora 5561 being implied):--desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.

Those in Jerusalem, the physical Jerusalem, are the house of Judah....NOT the house of Israel. They were scattered long before Jerusalem was and they, unlike the house of Judah, never returned.

 

[researcher]

Or your understanding is.

Jesus stood in front of the disciples and told them this

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next:

1. for verily (truly) I say unto you,

2. Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,

3. till the Son of man be come.

Either he came back before they finished going through Israel, or they are constantly being reincarnated.

His disciples are never ending...until the end. We are His disciples as those before us were.

He stood before the 12 Apostles and said he would be back before they went through all of the cities of Israel. There's no getting around this. No spiritual interpretation, no replacement for the 12 disciples/Apostles.

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

 

[RND]

Or your understanding is.

Jesus stood in front of the disciples and told them this

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next:

1. for verily (truly) I say unto you,

2. Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel,

3. till the Son of man be come.

Either he came back before they finished going through Israel, or they are constantly being reincarnated.

I think your understanding is seriously flawed. Jesus was referring specifically to the preaching mission of the apostles to the house of Israel and Israel alone. They weren't to go into the way of the gentiles or Samaria. He then begins to apply His prophecy to the all that would be called apostles of God - those who preach the word of God now. Jesus finally goes on to make a clear reference to "the end."

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

It is clear that Matthew 10 has many aspects of the preaching of the word much like in other sections of scripture. You are taking one verse and twisting the understanding to fit a rather myopic view quite frankly. As a result you miss the entire scope of the chapter. Too bad.

 

[researcher]

I think your understanding is seriously flawed.

That's OK. Most of us don't believe the Seventh Day Adventist, or the false prophetess Ellen White.

 

[RND]

Those in Jerusalem, the physical Jerusalem, are the house of Judah....NOT the house of Israel.

In effect they are truly one and the same - in the long run. Jesus gave His disciples charge to "go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Judah and Benjamin were still part of Israel. Judah wasn't separate from Israel.

They were scattered long before Jerusalem was and they, unlike the house of Judah, never returned.

And? That doesn't change the fact that when Jesus said "your house is left unto you desolate" the historical place of Judah was finally closed out.

 

[researcher]

Jesus said that when he came back, he would destroy the husbandmen (rulers) who looked after his vineyard, take the kingdom of God from them, and give it to someone else.

Actually, Jesus didn't say that. Jesus was making a parable, comparing the all the things God had done for the children of Israel with being a householder loaning out His vineyard.

The parable was merely another way of telling the religious leaders what was going to happen.

The religious leaders kill Jesus
Mar 12:7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
Mar 12:8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

The people that killed Jesus are in turn destroyed
Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
Mar 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Mar 12:11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

The religious leaders knew he was talking about them
Mar 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people:
for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them:
and they left him, and went their way.

The people Jesus was talking to had him killed. They in turn were destroyed in 70AD. The kingdom of God was taken from them and given to others (Act 13:46).

All of the parable happened just like Jesus said.

 

[whirlwind]

He stood before the 12 Apostles and said he would be back before they went through all of the cities of Israel. There's no getting around this. No spiritual interpretation, no replacement for the 12 disciples/Apostles.

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Jeff...you of all people, with the testimony you have given KNOW that you are a disciple. You have healed. Twelve is the number of governmental perfection. It is the perfect number of disciples He calls to govern His kingdom...whatever the number is. He did stand before those twelve as He stands before us now. We are to go to the house of Israel and we will not have gone through the cities before He returns. There are always new souls to reach no matter when, no matter where.

 

[RND]

I think your understanding is seriously flawed.

That's OK. Most of us don't believe the Seventh Day Adventist, or the false prophetess Ellen White.

Nice touch! Go personal! When your argument is found to be full of holes attack and misdirect! I think this shows the type of character you happen to possess.

Defend your argument, don't attack EGW or the SDA church. Lots of folks have told you how mistaken you are researcher and I know for a fact that a number (most, all) aren't Adventists. What would you say to them?

 

[whirlwind]

Those in Jerusalem, the physical Jerusalem, are the house of Judah....NOT the house of Israel.

In effect they are truly one and the same - in the long run. Jesus gave His disciples charge to "go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Judah and Benjamin were still part of Israel. Judah wasn't separate from Israel.

You are quite wrong. They are not "one and the same." All twelve are Israel but only the house of Judah are Jews...living in Jerusalem. The house of Israel, the ten northern tribes, were taken captive two hundred years before the house of Judah. They NEVER returned. They ARE NOT one and the same.

[quote:115iwkxz]They were scattered long before Jerusalem was and they, unlike the house of Judah, never returned.

And? That doesn't change the fact that when Jesus said "your house is left unto you desolate" the historical place of Judah was finally closed out.[/quote:115iwkxz]


Who was He speaking to? You said it was the house of Israel and it wasn't. For someone that goes around telling others they are "seriously flawed," :naughty you would think you could admit to a mistake.

 

[researcher]

He stood before the 12 Apostles and said he would be back before they went through all of the cities of Israel. There's no getting around this. No spiritual interpretation, no replacement for the 12 disciples/Apostles.

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Jeff...you of all people, with the testimony you have given KNOW that you are a disciple. You have healed. Twelve is the number of governmental perfection. It is the perfect number of disciples He calls to govern His kingdom...whatever the number is. He did stand before those twelve as He stands before us now. We are to go to the house of Israel and we will not have gone through the cities before He returns. There are always new souls to reach no matter when, no matter where.

It still won't stand that we can take the words in this chapter that Jesus spoke to the 12 disciples over 1900 years ago and say that he was talking to us. We weren't there. He stood right there, and spoke to them in person. There is no mistaking this. He was talking about the land based nation of Israel that existed almost 2000 years. It makes everything else he and the Apostles said line up quite nicely. :D

Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of the land will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
Mat 24:34 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you,
Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Rev 3:11 'I am coming quickly! Be holding fast what you have, so that no one shall receive your victor's wreath.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

2Ti 4:1 I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--

Makes perfect sense.

 

[researcher]

I think your understanding is seriously flawed.

That's OK. Most of us don't believe the Seventh Day Adventist, or the false prophetess Ellen White.

Nice touch! Go personal! When your argument is found to be full of holes attack and misdirect! I think this shows the type of character you happen to possess.

Defend your argument, don't attack EGW or the SDA church. Lots of folks have told you how mistaken you are researcher and I know for a fact that a number (most, all) aren't Adventists. What would you say to them?

I would tell them this...

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third,
it is accepted as self-evident."

We're slowly getting to stage 3. lol

Lol. ;) ;)

 

[whirlwind]

Jeff...you of all people, with the testimony you have given KNOW that you are a disciple. You have healed. Twelve is the number of governmental perfection. It is the perfect number of disciples He calls to govern His kingdom...whatever the number is. He did stand before those twelve as He stands before us now. We are to go to the house of Israel and we will not have gone through the cities before He returns. There are always new souls to reach no matter when, no matter where.

It still won't stand that we can take the words in this chapter that Jesus spoke to the 12 disciples over 1900 years ago and say that he was talking to us. We weren't there. He stood right there, and spoke to them in person. There is no mistaking this. He was talking about the land based nation of Israel that existed almost 2000 years. It makes everything else he and the Apostles said line up quite nicely. :D

Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of the land will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
Mat 24:34 Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you,
Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Rev 3:11 'I am coming quickly! Be holding fast what you have, so that no one shall receive your victor's wreath.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

2Ti 4:1 I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--

Makes perfect sense.

Jeff, we must agree to disagree on this subject.

 

[RND]

The parable was merely another way of telling the religious leaders what was going to happen.

Exactly! So what does the parable say? That the son )Jesus) would be killed, which He was and then He asked, "what shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?" Jesus said the "certain man" (God Himself) would "destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others."

The husbandmen were destroyed on the death of Christ in that there place was taken away and the vineyard (the world) was given to others. The world wasn't destroyed it was simple given to others.

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

The Pharisees after Jesus' crucifixion were given every opportunity to accept the atoning sacrifice of the Christ, Jesus. They themselves judged themselves "unworthy of everlasting life" so then Paul turned to the Gentiles.

The people Jesus was talking to had him killed.

Yep.

They in turn were destroyed in 70AD. The kingdom of God was taken from them and given to others (Act 13:46).

Yep.

All of the parable happened just like Jesus said.

Yep. The destruction didn't take place when Jerusalem fell - it took place when the blood of Christ was shed.

It's interesting you quote Acts 13:46 in that no matter what date you believe Paul was still alive and told the Pharisees that the kingdom was being taken from them and given to others "before" the siege at Rome! Essentially you are arguing against yourself!

 

[researcher]

Jeff, we must agree to disagree on this subject. [/quote]

:P I agree, we do disagree. Lol. :D

There's no going back once one realizes Jesus meant what he said when he said he would be back for the Apostles in their lifetime. It's because people are unable to accept this that so many different end-time doctrines come into existence. Even theologists try and explain away what they can't accept. But the overwhelming evidence is there, Jesus said he would come back in the lifetime of the Apostles, and that the wedding of the lamb is a historic event. It's the perfect answer to all of the disagreeing doctrines out there today. :D Wooohooo! :D