Jesus' Exclusivism

[Billywolf]

Hi, I have a question for those who believe in Jesus' exclusivist statement "Nobody comes to the Father except through me." What about those who have never heard of him before? Considering that it would be the majority of the world's population since his time (he was known by VERY FEW people in his area of the world, i.e. the Ancient Near East and it took a LONG time to spread throughout). Heck, there are even people today who still have not been exposed to his purported teachings. What happens to those people?

 

[handy]

They still go to the Father through Him. He is the One sitting on the Judgment Throne.

This is a really common question. I believe that there is enough Scriptural evidence to point to the idea that just because someone lived in outer Mongolia circa 680 bc they do not automatically go hell.

In Romans 1, it speaks of God's invisible attributes, divine nature and eternal power and that these things can be clearly seen. In Acts 17, Paul finds a an altar dedicated "To an unknown God". Paul then ties that altar in with Christ and states: "Therefore, having overlooked the time of ignorance..." (vs 30)

For those of us to whom the gospel has been given, we are judged according to how we receive what God freely gives us. But, for those that never in their entire lives, ever heard of God, then I believe that Jesus will judge them according to what they knew. To me, Acts 17:30 is a hopeful text. Not a slam dunk, but one that offers hope.

 

[freeway]

First off Hi Billywolf and welcome to the forum. That is a good question, so if I may make an effort. Here goes. I believe Jesus is the only way to the father. After all He did not add or, maybe, but I only. I kind of look at it this way. You have one front door to your house, of all the billon doors in the world how many lead to your front room? Just one. As far as people that have never heard the word of God “Jesusâ€. If you look at these people say on a desert island even though they have not ever hear the word of Jesus they worship something the sun moon star trees water rocks birds animals, something, they end up worshiping the creation and not the creator.. I also believe will all my heart that if someone is truly seeking God, He, God will make Himself known. Again welcome to the site, lots of friendly people here.

 

[makingwisethesimple]

Hi there! This is my first post on this but i've had some experience on various other ones. Your question is an interesting one as it assumes that Jesus' statement is necessarily exclusive. It has often been interpreted this way but could we also read it as an inclusive sense? When Jesus says that "no one comes to the Father except through him" we can also understand it to mean that all who come to the Father have come through Jesus. Jesus seems to be silent in this instance on the specific means or required ritual.

Look forward to engaging in the community further.

 

[jasoncran]

if you aint born of the spirit and of the water, you wont be able to enter heaven.

 

[happyjoy]

if you aint born of the spirit and of the water, you wont be able to enter heaven.

That is cryptic. Do you mean that the people who never heard heard of Jesus go to hell? What about aborted babies or kids who die in car accidents?

 

[logical bob]

For those of us to whom the gospel has been given, we are judged according to how we receive what God freely gives us. But, for those that never in their entire lives, ever heard of God, then I believe that Jesus will judge them according to what they knew.

In that case surely all spreading the word and missionary activity should cease immediately. If it's better to never hear than to hear and not accept, you'll be giving people a far better chance by leaving them without hearing your message. Missionaries may be causing the damnation of people who would otherwise have been saved!

 

[jasoncran]

if you aint born of the spirit and of the water, you wont be able to enter heaven.

That is cryptic. Do you mean that the people who never heard heard of Jesus go to hell? What about aborted babies or kids who die in car accidents?

oh please, read romans 1, no man is without excuse. with babies they never had chance to sin,with kids in car wrecks if they know what right and wrong, they know what sin is.

You dont have to teach a kid to lie or steal, you have to teach them not to do those things.
Really on the Lord knows on this, and this is what i believe.

muslims that have never seen jesus on the cross, have seen him in visions and repented.

 

[happyjoy]

if you aint born of the spirit and of the water, you wont be able to enter heaven.

That is cryptic. Do you mean that the people who never heard heard of Jesus go to hell? What about aborted babies or kids who die in car accidents?

oh please, read romans 1, no man is without excuse. with babies they never had chance to sin,with kids in car wrecks if they know what right and wrong, they know what sin is.

You dont have to teach a kid to lie or steal, you have to teach them not to do those things.
Really on the Lord knows on this, and this is what i believe.

muslims that have never seen jesus on the cross, have seen him in visions and repented.

Babies are born into sin. Yes they are cute, but don't let that fool you into thinking they are truly innocent. We all have original sin from conception. The fact that the infant didn't commit new sin is irrelevant as works don't get you into heaven anyway.

As for Muslims having visions of Jesus. I don't think that is all too common.

My opinion is that they certainly do not suffer endlessly after death.

You still remained quiet

 

[ProphetMark]

Babies are born into sin. Yes they are cute, but don't let that fool you into thinking they are truly innocent. We all have original sin from conception.

Where does it say that in the bible? Do we not have free will then?

 

[Rick W]

Babies are born into sin. Yes they are cute, but don't let that fool you into thinking they are truly innocent. We all have original sin from conception.

Where does it say that in the bible? Do we not have free will then?

Regardless of what one thinks about freewill the fact remains.
Nobody had to teach us how to lie, steal, make excuse, not to share or bear false witness etc. Those gems of behavior are in us right from the start. We must be taught not to succumb to those inherent behavior patterns. It's the sinful nature of man.

 

[ivdavid]

makingwisethesimple wrote:
It has often been interpreted this[exclusive] way but could we also read it as an inclusive sense?

Aren't they just the same? It seems to me like the glass-half-full-half-empty scenario - correct me if I'm wrong.
Take the two cases :

Exclusive : " no one comes to the Father but by Me. " implies - 'all who come to the Father have come through Jesus'

Inclusive : 'all who come to the Father have come through Jesus' implies - "no one comes to the Father but by Me [Jesus]"


Regarding babies dying - I will not infer anything conclusively but an indicator seems to be given here...
2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
This is regarding King David's new born child who dies. If King David meant that He'd go to where the baby would be and since we know that King David is an OT saint who'd go to the abode of God, then the baby should also be.......

Anyway, regarding who would be saved and who wouldn't, one person asks Jesus this question - read the entire passage for yourselves...
Luk 13:23 And one said to Him, Lord, are the ones being saved few? And He said to them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able.

Jesus seems to be non-committal in His answer though He stresses on the fact that each should be concerned about his/her own salvation and not speculate over others'.

 

[makingwisethesimple]

ivdavid - The distinction is a subtle one for sure. I think it challenges our assumptions of what it means to 'come through Jesus' to get to the Father. Do we have to explicitly call upon him by name?

I think we are simply stepping outside our authority when we begin asking questions of who is saved and who isn't as that ultimately is God's business. Christopher Wright has written a great wee book called "Salvation belongs to our God" - in it he argues that salvation is God's and God's alone, we can't begin to speak for him on these matters.

I think that we will all be very surprised to see, on that day, those who are called into God's kingdom and those who aren't. I sometimes wonder if there will be some 'Christians' who aren't and some Muslims that are. And yet all that enter will enter through Jesus (however it is that that happens).

 

[ivdavid]

@makingwisethesimple

Do we have to explicitly call upon Him[Jesus] by name?

When our own wisdom falters, i think it's best to rely on the Scriptures...
Rom 10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.

Of course, salvation is not limited to a particular nation or race of people.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference both of Jew and of Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call on Him.

Commandment 3 states :
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
You see, here we are to understand that 'name' is not just a superficial calling word for convenience of reference, rather it is what stands as identity to a particular being. When I refer to you by name, I'm also making a reference to your nature, character and all else that you stand for. It is our 'names' that are written in the Book of Life. So, God places importance on how His name is used or called upon because you're actually referring to His person when you do so. This is again why the name of Jesus is so important - it refers to all that He is, all that He has done and all that He can do.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

And this takes us, logically, to the next few verses -
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
And then,
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

There is no use in confessing the name of the Lord if you don't believe in all that He stands for - and this is impossible for a true believer. I have read accounts of how tribal people received visions of Jesus Christ and when missionaries began to preach to them, they readily confessed Jesus as Lord. There have been others who've known the Lord and worshipped only Him but had to wait for a preacher to tell them the name of Jesus. What matters is that you believe in the person of Jesus for your salvation based on His righteousness and sacrifice on the cross. What matters is that you put your faith in Him to be resurrected into an eternal life in God's presence.

I think that we will all be very surprised to see, on that day, those who are called into God's kingdom and those who aren't.

I totally agree. As I said in my previous post, each of us should work out our own salvation and not speculate on others'.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Many who are relying on their own merit and works 'in faith' to gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven will also themselves be surprised on the Day of the Lord.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I sometimes wonder if there will be some 'Christians' who aren't and some Muslims that are.

I'm not sure what you meant here. If you mean that some may enter the Kingdom even though they've never entered a fellowship, church, read Scriptures - then yes, it is possible provided they've believed in Christ. Take the example of the thief on the cross. All true believers are part of the Church of Christ. Can a muslim be saved - yes. Can a muslim remain a muslim - no, the moment he believes in Christ, he becomes a Christian. Does he have to attend service in a Christian church then - I don't know, God may call him to be an evangelist in the mountains where there may be no church - maybe, he'll set up a church there; he's anyway a member of Christ's church. Can he worship any other god but the living God - no. Can he put his faith in any other name but Jesus - no.
Am I laying down rules on what a Christian should do or shouldn't - no, who am I to lay down rules - i'm merely stating what a true believer, by nature, will choose to do.
If I've misunderstood anything, please correct me.

 

[wanelad]

It is late and not sure if this has been covered, however the Gospel is written in the Stars, Virgo the virgin birth, the Southern Cross etc, I know that God would make himself known to anyone whom seeks. Their salvation may or may not come from a direct understanding of the Gospel but will come through faith.

When I first came to know Jesus as my personal saviour I did not know all the ins and outs, in fact did not even know he had died for me at that point. What I did know was I had sinned against God and fellow man, I did know I needed forgiveness and asked. God revieled the rest to me in due time, I was saved from the moment I asked as many whom have not had the opportunity to recieve the Gospel in full shall be IMO

 

[happyjoy]

It is late and not sure if this has been covered, however the Gospel is written in the Stars, Virgo the virgin birth, the Southern Cross etc, I know that God would make himself known to anyone whom seeks. Their salvation may or may not come from a direct understanding of the Gospel but will come through faith.

When I first came to know Jesus as my personal saviour I did not know all the ins and outs, in fact did not even know he had died for me at that point. What I did know was I had sinned against God and fellow man, I did know I needed forgiveness and asked. God revieled the rest to me in due time, I was saved from the moment I asked as many whom have not had the opportunity to recieve the Gospel in full shall be IMO

Are you saying that details such as knowing and believing that Jesus died so that you can be saved is not necessary?

If so. I agree that the line of thinking that only those few who agree with your personal view of salvation will go to heaven while the vast majority suffer for eternity is neither biblical or Christian.

 

[wanelad]

"Are you saying that details such as knowing and believing that Jesus died so that you can be saved is not necessary? "

What I am saying is if a person seeks they will find, if they have heard the Gospel of Jesus and not headed the call, then they miss the boat.

However for those whom have not had the opportunity to hear about Jesus, God will will lead them to his word (Jesus) in one way or another if they seek him (God). Please note this is just my opinion and have heard of many miraculous stories in the past.

 

[Mike]

I have to admit I struggle with the baby thing. As posted above, we are born into sin. No one is immune to the human condition. Some churches baptize infants, and I see where they're coming from. Some dedicate and baptize when they are old enough to know enough about their decision. I see where they're coming from too.

I have my beliefs, but I can not speak for the grace that will be given.

In my uncertainty, I see similarities to a newbie and an adult on an island. Not the same, because the island guy has the ability to respond to any form of revelation he receives even if he doesn't hear the gospel or read the word.

However, not one baby (sept J) does not have the disease of sin. As ivDavid said, we should be concerned about our own salvation, not others. But what if that other is your 3 month old boy?

 

[Ahuli]

Hi, I have a question for those who believe in Jesus' exclusivist statement "Nobody comes to the Father except through me." What about those who have never heard of him before? Considering that it would be the majority of the world's population since his time (he was known by VERY FEW people in his area of the world, i.e. the Ancient Near East and it took a LONG time to spread throughout). Heck, there are even people today who still have not been exposed to his purported teachings. What happens to those people?

Could you give an example of peoples who have never heard of Christ?

 

[Rev Kevin]

I have to admit I struggle with the baby thing. As posted above, we are born into sin. No one is immune to the human condition. Some churches baptize infants, and I see where they're coming from. Some dedicate and baptize when they are old enough to know enough about their decision. I see where they're coming from too.

I have my beliefs, but I can not speak for the grace that will be given.

In my uncertainty, I see similarities to a newbie and an adult on an island. Not the same, because the island guy has the ability to respond to any form of revelation he receives even if he doesn't hear the gospel or read the word.

However, not one baby (sept J) does not have the disease of sin. As ivDavid said, we should be concerned about our own salvation, not others. But what if that other is your 3 month old boy?

I don't beleive that God will condemn babies/children to hell. Babies are not able to say, "Look I need to be baptized so baptize me or I'll go to hell." Child who is not yet able to reason will not be condemned to hell ether. If they can't understand what being a Christian or what baptism really means, its not their fault. What about the mentally challenged? Do you think they will be condemned to hell because they are not able, through no fault of their own, will be condemded to hell? I don't. God is a God of mercy, he's not blind. He will grant his mercy on those who are infants, or unable to understand. To think otherwise would be saying that God is a malevolent oger. If you can't understand or you never heard of me, oh well, off to eternal fire for you. We all know that is not God.