My point is that some terms can apply to either the Father or the Son depending on who is ruling at the time.
Great.
Yes, I gave it in post 202
Then you agree. Great.
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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My point is that some terms can apply to either the Father or the Son depending on who is ruling at the time.
Yes, I gave it in post 202
What an interesting set of verses there.If man needs 2 or 3 to judge anyone or to establish a testimony by His words, then how does God do it? If man cannot bear testimony of himself or else a false witness, John 5:31 then how can God?
Jesus is able to hear the Truth (Word of God). Truth is reliable (and therefore requires no acknowledgement or witness).John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge (distinguish): and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true (reliable).
John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. ]
Let me ask you, when you say, Jesus is God, what does that mean?
Can God bear false witness? I don't think so. Why then would He need a witness? However, if He did there are a myriad of angels.If man needs 2 or 3 to judge anyone or to establish a testimony by His words, then how does God do it? If man cannot bear testimony of himself or else a false witness, John 5:31 then how can God?
There's nothing here that speaks of a triune God. Who did Jesus say would dwell in the believer? Was it not Him and His Father? Jesus became a man, how then is it that He would dwelling in believers? Surely you wouldn't suggest that all believers have another human being dwelling in them. Jesus is one person how would He dwell in multiple Christians? The answer is the Holy Spirit, or Holy Breath.How is that when the Father sends the Comforter John 14:25-26 The Father gives the promise at our salvation moment when we knock at the door of Jesus Christ Luke 11:9-13 Kind of easy to say the Father gives Himself, but that is not what was written.
Indeed, John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." testify to more than just the Holy Spirit dwelling in us too when saved. This is a testimony from the Triune God in us that we are saved.
Yes, If the Holy Spirit is the Father then yes, He can be grieved. Actually, Jesus said John 14:26 to the apostles. All we have to do is look at Christianity and see that all believers are not being lead into all truth.Ephesians 4:30 is a warning that we can grieve the holy Spirit. And John 14:26 has Jesus telling us the father will send the comforter Whose job is to teach and remind whatever Jesus has said unto us. Reads as a separate Person in that Godhead to me.
I ask because it's really the key to the whole issue. It's been my experience that as Christians we throw words around without defining what we mean and often we are on different pages. Another example would be Godhead, what is Godhead? I know the old English meaning is godhood. That's the definition I give it. It's similar to motherhood or fatherhood. However, I don't think that's the meaning most Christians give it. It seems to have become a theological word and taken on a meaning all it's own. I think it often different for different people also.Interesting question.
My first response would be to say He is fully endowed with - fully a Part of - the Godhead, and that in His resurrected State He is fully One with the Father.
Why?
Jesus said it, not me.No Butch. The Helper, The Comforter is the Holy Spirit.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever. John 14:15-16
That’s three.
I
The Father
Another Helper
JLB
Three personas is Modalism. Three persons is not.For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
This one is three is Modalism.
JLB
John, in his first epistle says, anyone who denies that Jesus has come in the flesh is of the spirit of antichrist. He uses a perfect tense verb for "has come". This indicates that at the time John wrote the epistle Jesus was still in the flesh.
When He was taken up into Heaven it was bodily. They saw it. The Angel told them He would return the same way. John's words indicate that after being taken up He was still in the flesh. There isn't anything in Scriputre that would indicate anything else.I liked most of your post, but this statement right here threw me a curve. I can try and get back to the rest later, but what do you mean by this; how was Jesus still in the flesh as of the writing of 1st John?
When He was taken up into Heaven it was bodily. They saw it. The Angel told them He would return the same way. John's words indicate that after being taken up He was still in the flesh. There isn't anything in Scriputre that would indicate anything else.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge (distinguish): and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.What an interesting set of verses there.
Jesus is able to hear the Truth (Word of God). Truth is reliable (and therefore requires no acknowledgement or witness).
It appears that Jesus is saying that God requires no witness/acknowledgement, but, being incarnate, Jesus does not attribute to Himself (apart from God) that pureness of Truth which God possesses. While Jesus (through God) is Truth incarnate, He is not Himself God and does not recognize Himself as such.
God can bear witness of Himself. Jesus (incarnate) cannot.
No, I don't think that. I believe He is flesh and blood just like He was before the cross. I think His apearing in locked rooms was the Father's doing.In the flesh... You don't think His body had become glorified such that He could manifest as He wished? John 20:26 suggests He could at that point appear in rooms without entering in through a door.
Yet in Genesis 1:26 the request was made to make man in our mage and after our likeness but when the act of creation was performed, only God did it in Genesis 1:27 so no angels involved as man was created in His image and after His likeness.Can God bear false witness? I don't think so. Why then would He need a witness? However, if He did there are a myriad of angels.
Yes, note the plural in John 14:23, but the Holy Spirit too in John 14:26There's nothing here that speaks of a triune God. Who did Jesus say would dwell in the believer? Was it not Him and His Father?
After His ascension which was after His resurrection, at and since Pentecost, Jesus Christ indwells believers per 2 Corinthians 13:5Jesus became a man, how then is it that He would dwelling in believers?
Explain John 14:23 then when Jesus said He and the Father will make their abode in us.Surely you wouldn't suggest that all believers have another human being dwelling in them.
Jesus is God the Son.Jesus is one person how would He dwell in multiple Christians? The answer is the Holy Spirit, or Holy Breath.
Whether godhood or Godhead, you can derive this term from the truth in scripture.I ask because it's really the key to the whole issue. It's been my experience that as Christians we throw words around without defining what we mean and often we are on different pages. Another example would be Godhead, what is Godhead? I know the old English meaning is godhood. That's the definition I give it. It's similar to motherhood or fatherhood. However, I don't think that's the meaning most Christians give it. It seems to have become a theological word and taken on a meaning all it's own. I think it often different for different people also.
Thus, Jesus is GodWhen I say Jesus is God, what I mean is that Jesus is Deity. He is of the same essence as the Father. He literally came out of the Father. Whatever the Father is the Son is as far as essence is concerned. Just as my child is of the same essence as I am.
He may lead you to rethink that in the knowledge of Him.When I say Jesus is one with God, the Father, I mean in unity, not in number or person.
Let us read exactly what Paul had written;I would ask what you believe His resurrected state is. As I read He is human. Paul said that He was in the form of God and emptied Himself taking the form of man. John, in his first epistle says, anyone who denies that Jesus has come in the flesh is of the spirit of antichrist. He uses a perfect tense verb for "has come". This indicates that at the time John wrote the epistle Jesus was still in the flesh. This makes me wonder what you mean by fully one with God.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.Jesus said it, not me.
Hi Golgotha, where does it say Jesus is God the SonYet in Genesis 1:26 the request was made to make man in our mage and after our likeness but when the act of creation was performed, only God did it in Genesis 1:27 so no angels involved as man was created in His image and after His likeness.
Isiaah 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? 14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
So Who was the Lord speaking to in making that request and yet only God did it?
Not like anyone can refuse Him but only God did it.
Same thing happened to the people at the tower of Babylon as the request was made to confuse their language and scatter them but only the Lord did it as it is written. Genesis 11:5-9
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
So as God commands of men in having 2 or 3 witnesses to judge anyone or to establish a word or a testimony, so God is as the Triune God..
Yes, note the plural in John 14:23, but the Holy Spirit too in John 14:26
After His ascension which was after His resurrection, at and since Pentecost, Jesus Christ indwells believers per 2 Corinthians 13:5
Explain John 14:23 then when Jesus said He and the Father will make their abode in us.
Jesus is God the Son.
Yet scripture does testify to Three Witnesses in Heaven as They agree as One for how the Triune God exists, judges, and testifies so that His word is true.Three personas is Modalism. Three persons is not.
The message is clear in the scripture even though, not worded like that.Hi Golgotha, where does it say Jesus is God the Son
Christ said His Father is Greater and in another place, Christ said His Father is Spirit, I'm sure while He was on earth He is The Son, as Peter has said also, so then! tell me how can He be God at the same time as His Father?The message is clear in the scripture even though, not worded like that.
Son of God is God as Spirit of God is God.
To deny the Son as the Christ, as God is to deny the Father as God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Rock has always been a reference to deity in the Old Testament.
Christ As the Rock Is Christ As God
So God the Son is the message of truth in the scripture.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.Christ said His Father is Greater and in another place,
Jesus was on earth before His incarnation as seen by Abraham in Genesis 18:1 as Jesus said He had seen Him in that day in John 8:56-59 as scriptures testify of Him John 5:39-47 just as Moses had written about Him.Christ said His Father is Spirit, I'm sure while He was on earth He is The Son, as Peter has said also, so then! tell me how can He be God at the same time as His Father?