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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Jesus Is God: Part 1
- Thread starter Hidden In Him
- Start date
Butch5
Member
Who is the Helper, the Holy Spirit?
"7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
12“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
Sorrow Will Turn to Joy
16“A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father.”
17Then some of His disciples said among themselves, “What is this that He says to us, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me’; and, ‘because I go to the Father’?” 18They said therefore, “What is this that He says, ‘A little while’? We do not know what He is saying.”
19Now Jesus knew that they desired to ask Him, and He said to them, “Are you inquiring among yourselves about what I said, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me’? 20Most assuredly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; and you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy. 21A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. 22Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you.
23“And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. 24Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.
Jesus Christ Has Overcome the World
25“These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. " NKJV John 16:7-25
Here Jesus speaks of the Helper, the Spirit of Truth. After telling all that he will do, Jesus says to the disciples that Hes been speaking to them in figurative language of the Father but the time is coming when He will speak to then plainly. Jesus is saying here that the Helper, the spirit of Truth, is the Father. It's not a third person, it's the Father. Here we have it from Jesus' own words. The question is, will we believe it or argue for a 5th century doctrine?
"7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
12“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
Sorrow Will Turn to Joy
16“A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father.”
17Then some of His disciples said among themselves, “What is this that He says to us, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me’; and, ‘because I go to the Father’?” 18They said therefore, “What is this that He says, ‘A little while’? We do not know what He is saying.”
19Now Jesus knew that they desired to ask Him, and He said to them, “Are you inquiring among yourselves about what I said, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me’? 20Most assuredly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; and you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy. 21A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. 22Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you.
23“And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. 24Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.
Jesus Christ Has Overcome the World
25“These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. " NKJV John 16:7-25
Here Jesus speaks of the Helper, the Spirit of Truth. After telling all that he will do, Jesus says to the disciples that Hes been speaking to them in figurative language of the Father but the time is coming when He will speak to then plainly. Jesus is saying here that the Helper, the spirit of Truth, is the Father. It's not a third person, it's the Father. Here we have it from Jesus' own words. The question is, will we believe it or argue for a 5th century doctrine?
Hi again, Walter.
If you could, identify for me what points you are wanting to make through the above passages of scripture. I'm kinda caught up in several things lately and I might not fully understand what it is you are trying to argue unless you were to state it clearly.
God bless, and thanks for your courtesy.
- H
Hello, Butch.
I get these types of arguments quite often, but don't understand how they refute the doctrine of the Trinity. Trinitarians hold to the teaching that the Father and the Son are two separate Individuals.
God bless,
- H
Butch5
Member
Right, but they say they are one God. Then they refuse to answer the question of what that one God is. They refer to that one God as He. This indicates that this one God is a living being. So when faced with the question, how is this being called one God composed of three other beings or persons they have no answer.
Do you have scripture for this statement?
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever. John 14:15-16
That’s three.
I
The Father
Another Helper
JLB
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If man needs 2 or 3 to judge anyone or to establish a testimony by His words, then how does God do it? If man cannot bear testimony of himself or else a false witness, John 5:31 then how can God?
How is that when the Father sends the Comforter John 14:25-26 The Father gives the promise at our salvation moment when we knock at the door of Jesus Christ Luke 11:9-13 Kind of easy to say the Father gives Himself, but that is not what was written.
Indeed, John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." testify to more than just the Holy Spirit dwelling in us too when saved. This is a testimony from the Triune God in us that we are saved.
Ephesians 4:30 is a warning that we can grieve the holy Spirit. And John 14:26 has Jesus telling us the father will send the comforter Whose job is to teach and remind whatever Jesus has said unto us. Reads as a separate Person in that Godhead to me.
No Butch. The Helper, The Comforter is the Holy Spirit.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever. John 14:15-16
That’s three.
I
The Father
Another Helper
JLB
Jesus joined His Father on the throne and is seated at the right hand of God. The Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth was sent to lead us and guide us into all truth, and teach us all things.
JLB
WalterandDebbie
Sabbath Overseer
Hi Hidden In Him, I'm saying what Jesus said to Peter after Peter said that He is Christ the Son of the living God:
Matthew 16:13-17
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
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Ok. Yes, I agree. A sister posted another thread elsewhere on this passage and a few others that suggested the knowledge that Jesus was in fact God was divinely revealed like in this passage, and not something made readily available to people by the Lord during His earthly ministry.
WalterandDebbie
Sabbath Overseer
Yes I understand what you are saying, it is also my understanding that:
John 1:1
1, In the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Butch5
Member
Let me ask you, when you say, Jesus is God, what does that mean?
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
This one is three is Modalism.
JLB