Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • We stand with Ukraine. Please consider supporting Ukraine through a qualified organization.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Jesus Is God: Part 1

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Did you not read my previous post where back in Israel, "Son of" means "same as?"

For someone to become the Son, we need to ask ourselves what or who was he before he became the Son.
.
So, then Isaac was really Abraham?
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Who is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings according to Isaiah nine?
.
Does Isaiah 9 cancel what Paul said? Paul said, the one no man has seen nor can see, is ultimately the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. However we understand Isaiah 9 it cannot contradict what Paul said. So, if you're implying that someone other than the Father is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, please explain how that is reconciled with Paul's words
 

Cooper

Supporter
From
Sheffield UK
Gender
Male
Messages
430
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Does Isaiah 9 cancel what Paul said? Paul said, the one no man has seen nor can see, is ultimately the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. However we understand Isaiah 9 it cannot contradict what Paul said. So, if you're implying that someone other than the Father is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, please explain how that is reconciled with Paul's words
Please, can I have Paul's quote?
 
From
USA
Gender
Male
Messages
112
Joined
Apr 6, 2022

John 5:22​

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Genesis 18:25​

That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

26​

And YHWH said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

Genesis 19:24​

Then YHWH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH out of heaven;

Amos 4:11​

I have overthrown some of you, as Elohim overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto Me, saith YHWH.

YHWH is Speaking
Isaiah 48:16
Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now Adonai YHWH, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.

Father~Son~Spirit

The deity deniers are not His sheep, they can't hear His voice having been taken captive by satan to do his will.

Only a work of the Holy Spirit is able to open their eyes, they can't, I repeat, can't be reasoned into the faith.

Give an answer, then reject a heretic after the second admonition, dust off your hands move on.
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
If Abraham had been the creator come among us, and they called his name Isaac, yes.

(Computer about to do an update)
The Jews understood the father son relationship and they knew that Abraham and Isaac were two different people.
 

Cooper

Supporter
From
Sheffield UK
Gender
Male
Messages
430
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
I'm sorry but that doesn't follow. If I claim to be the son of someone else, I am not that someone else. The very fact that He claimed to be the Son of God shows that He was not the one He was calling God. If Jesus was the Father, then He wasn't the Son of God He would be God the Father. The logic doesn't work.

However, we know from Scripture beyond doubt that Jesus was not the Father. Paul tells us that Jesus was the first born of all creation. Being born indicates that one didn't exist prior to that birth. Also, Paul tells us that when Jesus returns He will show who is "the only" Potentate. The King of Kings and Lord of Lords, whom "no man has seen nor can see". So, we're told that no one can see the Father. Yet, we know that people have and can see Jesus. Thus, there is no possible way that Jesus can be the Father.
Firstborn is about status. Ephraim is above Manasseh, who was the eldest of the two, but Ephraim is the Lord’s “firstborn” even though he is the youngest.

King David is appointed the Lord’s “firstborn,” he was the youngest of ten children, but he was the anointed King of Israel. He was pre-eminent over all. Jesus is also pre-eminent, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6 KJV) and topping it all, He is the WORD who created the heaven and the earth.
.
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Please, can I have Paul's quote?
It's pretty clear here that Paul is saying Jesus will make known the Father.

1 Timothy 6:13–16 (LEB): 13 I command you, in the sight of God who gives life to all things and Christ Jesus who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you observe the commandment without fault, irreproachable until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will make known in his own time, the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of those who reign as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one who alone possesses immortality, who lives in unapproachable light, whom no human being has seen nor is able to see, to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Firstborn is about status. Ephraim is above Manasseh, who was the eldest of the two, but Ephraim is the Lord’s “firstborn” even though he is the youngest.

King David is appointed the Lord’s “firstborn,” he was the youngest of ten children, but he was the anointed King of Israel. He was pre-eminent over all. Jesus is also pre-eminent, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6 KJV) and topping it all, He is the WORD who created the heaven and the earth.
.
Yes, Jesus is preeminent because He is the first born. He Himself tells us that He came out of the Father.

John 5:22​

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Genesis 18:25​

That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

26​

And YHWH said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

Genesis 19:24​

Then YHWH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH out of heaven;

Amos 4:11​

I have overthrown some of you, as Elohim overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto Me, saith YHWH.

YHWH is Speaking
Isaiah 48:16
Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now Adonai YHWH, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.

Father~Son~Spirit

The deity deniers are not His sheep, they can't hear His voice having been taken captive by satan to do his will.

Only a work of the Holy Spirit is able to open their eyes, they can't, I repeat, can't be reasoned into the faith.

Give an answer, then reject a heretic after the second admonition, dust off your hands move on.
Notice there are two Yawehs, one in Heaven and one on earth. This proves beyond doubt that the Father and the Son are not the same. Also, Jesus said the words He spoke were not His bit the Fathers, so we'd expect to see Him speaking for the Fsther in the 1st person. We see this in the burning bush. It is the Angel of the Lord, preincarnate Christ, thar appears to Moses, but, He speaks the words of God.

Exodus 3:2–6 (KJV 1900): And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
 

Cooper

Supporter
From
Sheffield UK
Gender
Male
Messages
430
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
It's pretty clear here that Paul is saying Jesus will make known the Father.

1 Timothy 6:13–16 (LEB): 13 I command you, in the sight of God who gives life to all things and Christ Jesus who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you observe the commandment without fault, irreproachable until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which he will make known in his own time, the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of those who reign as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one who alone possesses immortality, who lives in unapproachable light, whom no human being has seen nor is able to see, to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.
This is God, the immortal Jesus who is King of kings, and Lord of lords : -
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(1Ti 6:14-16 KJV)
 

Cooper

Supporter
From
Sheffield UK
Gender
Male
Messages
430
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Not possible. If He was, who raised Jesus from the dead?
Jesus is "God with us."
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)


Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13 KJV)

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 KJV)
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
This is God, the immortal Jesus who is King of kings, and Lord of lords : -
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(1Ti 6:14-16 KJV)
It's not Jesus. Look at it again. Paul said Jesus would reveal who is the King of Kings. The one no man can see nor has seen. People have seen Jesus so this isn't talking about Jesus
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Jesus is "God with us."
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)


Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13 KJV)

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 KJV)
Jesus is Deity, but He's not the Father. People equivocate on the word God. You're posting these passages as if they counter the other passages. They don't. If we can't reconcile all of the passages we have something wrong in our theology
 

Cooper

Supporter
From
Sheffield UK
Gender
Male
Messages
430
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Not possible. If He was, who raised Jesus from the dead?
One of the two Yahweh's (Grin) You tripped yourself up there. The ONE God is omnipresent in heaven and on earth, and just over two thousand years ago, he came among us in the flesh.
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
One of the two Yahweh's (Grin) You tripped yourself up there. The ONE God is omnipresent in heaven and on earth, and just over two thousand years ago, he came among us in the flesh.
If it was the same Yaweh it wouldn't be in Heaven and on earth. That indicates 2 not one. The one earth appeared to and spoke with Abraham. He was seen by Abraham. The one in Heaven cannot be seen.
 

Butch5

Member
From
Homer Georgia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
5,030
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Jesus is "God with us."
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)


Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13 KJV)

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 KJV)
Who raised Him from the dead?
 
Top