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Jesus Is God: Part 1

Butch5 said:
This idea that man is a spirit is not from Scripture. It entered the faith through Greek Philosophy. It was around long before Jesus came and it's been around since. It's the musings of men over millennia. But, it's not Scripture
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Sorry to bust your bubble but...

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.../

It is scripture.
 
Butch5 said:
His spirit? If Jesus is spirit which didn't die, then He didn't die for sins. If His body was just some disposable part, it wasn't Him it was a part of Him. If that's the case then He didn't die for sins. But Jesus wasn't spirit. When He appeared on the water, the disciples feared that they had seen a spirit and Jesus said to them, 'a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have'. So, He told them succinctly that He was not a spirit. Paul said that Christ was in the form of God, He emptied Himself of that form and took on the form of man. Man is not a spirit Look at Gen 2:7. Man consists of the dust of the earth. God then breathed "His" breath or spirit into man And man became a lving soul. So man is a living soul that consists of the dust of the earth and the breath or spirit of God. John said that the word became flesh. He didn't say the Word put on a flesh suit, or that the Word was wearing flesh. He said, the Word "became" flesh. When you combine Paul's words with John's the only conclusion is that He put off the form of God and became human flesh. To become something requires a transformation from what one wasn't to what one is. In Gen 6 God said that His spirit would not always strive with man because he is flesh. So God acknowledges that man is flesh. He didn't say man is a spirit in a flesh suit. He said, man is flesh. Thus, Jesus is flesh. That is how He died.

This idea that man is a spirit is not from Scripture. It entered the faith through Greek Philosophy. It was around long before Jesus came and it's been around since. It's the musings of men over millennia. But, it's not Scripture
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His body was fully human and He died in the flesh, not the Spirit, so that those who believe in him shall have everlasting life.
 
Cooper said:
Your family is like three generations apart, but we are talking about the One God who was known as the Word. The Word became flesh and they called his name Jesus. It is a name only, and that is the name the angel told Mary to call the creator of the world, whose plan it was to save His people from their iniquities.
.
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And nowhere in Scripture does it say there is one God in three persons. That is simply a 5th century teaching as I pointed out. Paul said there is one God, the Father. Would you argue with Him? Would tell him he's wrong? That's essentially what you're doing by continuing to argue against his statement

It amazes me that people argue this point so vehemently when there isn't a single passage of Scripture to support it. Not Jesus, nor Paul, nor any of the other apostles, said there is one God in three persons. We don't find any such concept anywhere in Scripture at all. Yet for some unknown reason Christians argue the point as though it was the end of the world
 
Titus 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

heretick, a follower of false doctrine

That's clear enough for me.

Otherwise you'll fall into a trap, diverted away from the works in which He made for you to do in Him.

Hearing well done thy good and faithful servant

Tov; Good, Functioning in the purpose for which it was created.

God saw everything He made and it was Tov, Doing what He made it to do.

Are you?
 
Edward said:
Sorry to bust your bubble but...

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.../

It is scripture.
Click to expand...
You didn't burst my bubble. I well aware of this passage. Notice the word "your", it denotes possession or ownership, not person. If I said, "your truck" no one would think i was saying you are a truck. They'd understand that I was saying you are in possession of a truck. The word "you" denotes person. If I said, "you are a truck" then people would understand that I was saying you are truck. So, "your" just shows that man has a spirit or breath, which we already know from Gen 2:7 is the breath or spirit of life from God. It something that God breathed out of Himself into man that gives man life. In this passage we see body, spirit, and soul, the very same thing we see in Gen 2:7 where God created the body, breathed His spirit into it and it became a living soul.
 
232 Ben Yissachar said:
Titus 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

heretick, a follower of false doctrine

That's clear enough for me.

Otherwise you'll fall into a trap, diverted away from the works in which He made for you to do in Him.

Hearing well done thy good and faithful servant

Tov; Good, Functioning in the purpose for which it was created.

God saw everything He made and it was Tov, Doing what He made it to do.

Are you?
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So, should I reject you for teaching Greek Philosphy as Biblical doctrine? Thats what you're doing. Unless you can show Scripture that tells us that man "IS" spirit you're preaching a false doctrine. If your doctrine is Biblical you should have no problem providing said Scriputre.
 
Butch5 said:
And nowhere in Scripture does it say there is one God in three persons.
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John 20:
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.../

That's Jesus, the Son, affirming the Father.


Matthew 3:
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.../

So the Holy Spirit is descending upon the Son, and the father says, this is my beloved Son...

That's all three of them. In scripture. All three show up in other places. ...let us make man in "our" image...?

That's the 3, having a conversation when you read it.
 
Butch5 said:
And nowhere in Scripture does it say there is one God in three persons. That is simply a 5th century teaching as I pointed out. Paul said there is one God, the Father. Would you argue with Him? Would tell him he's wrong? That's essentially what you're doing by continuing to argue against his statement

It amazes me that people argue this point so vehemently when there isn't a single passage of Scripture to support it. Not Jesus, nor Paul, nor any of the other apostles, said there is one God in three persons. We don't find any such concept anywhere in Scripture at all. Yet for some unknown reason Christians argue the point as though it was the end of the world
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God is Spirit (1) we call his name on earth Jesus (2) and he is our heavenly Father (3). One God.
 
Butch5 said:
You didn't burst my bubble. I well aware of this passage. Notice the word "your", it denotes possession or ownership, not person. If I said, "your truck" no one would think i was saying you are a truck. They'd understand that I was saying you are in possession of a truck. The word "you" denotes person. If I said, "you are a truck" then people would understand that I was saying you are truck. So, "your" just shows that man has a spirit or breath, which we already know from Gen 2:7 is the breath or spirit of life from God. It something that God breathed out of Himself into man that gives man life. In this passage we see body, spirit, and soul, the very same thing we see in Gen 2:7 where God created the body, breathed His spirit into it and it became a living soul.
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But if you're owning your posts then I guess it is "your" bubble, lol.
 
Butch5 said:
Read Gen 2:7.
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And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7 KJV)
H5315
נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature.
 
Edward said:
John 20:
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.../

That's Jesus, the Son, affirming the Father.


Matthew 3:
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.../

So the Holy Spirit is descending upon the Son, and the father says, this is my beloved Son...

That's all three of them. In scripture. All three show up in other places. ...let us make man in "our" image...?

That's the 3, having a conversation when you read it.
Click to expand...
You're assuming there are three having a conversation. Your presuppositions are leading you to certain conclusions. There are other ways to understand the same passages. The Bible mentions, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Where does it say these three are one God? It doesn't.

Instead of trying to find passages to prove this point why not ask the question, what does Paul mean there is one God, the Father?

Somehow, we as Christians have gotten to the point of pitting Scripture against Scripture as if the one who piles up the most passages wins. That's not how we come to the truth. Any one negative counters any number of positives. In other word suppose some said, "all cars are red". They could present a million red cars to prove their point. I would only have to present one car that's not red to disprove their point. We only need to find one passage of Scripture correctly understood to disprove our doctrines. No matter how many we think we can pile up in support of our beliefs. So, the issue isn't how many do we think support our belief. The issue is how many disprove it.
 
Butch5 said:
If I said, "your truck" no one would think i was saying you are a truck.
Click to expand...

Since the passage is indeed descibing the person himself, its clear that man is spirit,soul, and body. Man being made in the image of God is spirit.


God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. John 4:24



JLB
 
Something that just came to mind to add to this discussion is the exchange between Saul and Samuel after Samuel had died.

I'm titling this portion as "Abraham's Bosom"

Where was Samuel, before He was disturbed? The place that he told Saul that he and his sons would be with him the next day.

and Just like Samuel said, they died.

1 Samuel 28:11​

Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12​

And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13​

And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14​

And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15​

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted-(disturbed) me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

16​

Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing YHVH is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

17​

And YHVH hath done to him, as he spake by me: for YHVH hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbor, even to David:

18​

Because thou obeyedst not the voice of YHVH, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath YHVH done this thing unto thee this day.

19​

Moreover YHVH will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: YHVH also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

Now believers are immediately with the Adonai when they die, and He will bring them with Him when He returns to get their glorified bodies and those that are alive and remain will not precede them in the resurrection, prior to that there was "Abraham's Bosom" from which He led captivity captive out of. And a gulf between one side and the other.
 
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Butch5 said:
You're assuming there are three having a conversation. Your presuppositions are leading you to certain conclusions. There are other ways to understand the same passages. The Bible mentions, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Where does it say these three are one God? It doesn't.

Instead of trying to find passages to prove this point why not ask the question, what does Paul mean there is one God, the Father?

Somehow, we as Christians have gotten to the point of pitting Scripture against Scripture as if the one who piles up the most passages wins. That's not how we come to the truth. Any one negative counters any number of positives. In other word suppose some said, "all cars are red". They could present a million red cars to prove their point. I would only have to present one car that's not red to disprove their point. We only need to find one passage of Scripture correctly understood to disprove our doctrines. No matter how many we think we can pile up in support of our beliefs. So, the issue isn't how many do we think support our belief. The issue is how many disprove it.
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But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV)
 
JLB said:
Since the passage is indeed descibing the person himself, its clear that man is spirit,soul, and body. Man being made in the image of God is spirit.


God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. John 4:24



JLB
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We're not told what being made in the image of God means. But, man does have a spirit, it is the breath or spirit of God. But, having a spirit and being a spirit are two different thing. We see clearly from Gen 2:7 that man has a spirit, it is the breath of life. However, that's not what has been claimed. The claim is that man is a spirit.
That is not Scriptural. Paul said that Jesus was made like His brethren in all ways. Jesus said He was not a spirit. Thus man is not a spirit.
 
Cooper said:
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV)
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Exactly, Paul makes a distinction between the one God, the Father and the Lord Jesus. Thus show they are not the same.
 
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