Jesus Is God: Part 1

[JLB]

In regard to creation. We do not state Jesus created not the Father. We do not state the Father created not Jesus.
It is stated the Father created by or through Jesus.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,

… and the Spirit!

 

[Cooper]

As I pointed out, the Yahweh on earth was with Abraham. He could be seen. The Father cannot be seen. Thus, they are not the same. However you want to use the word omnipresent it cannot be used to say they are the same being. They are clearly different as Scriputre has shown in many places

I agree there are two Yahweh. One was the Golden Calf and the other was the God of Moses. What is your point? Or are you saying the Jews have their own God, while the Gentiles have Jesus?

When the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we don’t know what has become of him.” Aaron said to them, “Take off the golden rings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them to me.” All the people took off the golden rings which were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron. He received what they handed him, fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made it a molten calf. Then they said, “These are your gods, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt.” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made a proclamation, and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to Yahweh.” They rose up early on the next day, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

Yahweh spoke to Moses, “Go, get down; for your people, who you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves! They have turned away quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it, and have sacrificed to it, and said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt.’” Yahweh said to Moses, “I have seen these people, and behold, they are a stiff-necked people.
(Exodus 32:1-9 WEBA)

 

[Randy]

… and the Spirit!

Spirit of the Father the only true God. (smile)

 

[JLB]

Spirit of the Father the only true God. (smile)

Are you saying Elohim is not the true God?

The Godhead, The Father, the Word, and the Spirit are one…

God
Spirit
Creator
Savior


They function as One.


The Father’s will is expressed by the Son, (Word), and the word the Son speaks is brought into manifestation by the power of the Spirit.


It was the Father’s will that there would be light.
The Son spoke light into the darkness.
Light was manifested by the power of the Spirit.









JLB

 

[Randy]

I agree there are two Yahweh. One was the Golden Calf and the other was the God of Moses. What is your point? Or are you saying the Jews have their own God, while the Gentiles have Jesus?

When the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we don’t know what has become of him.” Aaron said to them, “Take off the golden rings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them to me.” All the people took off the golden rings which were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron. He received what they handed him, fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made it a molten calf. Then they said, “These are your gods, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt.” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made a proclamation, and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to Yahweh.” They rose up early on the next day, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

Yahweh spoke to Moses, “Go, get down; for your people, who you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves! They have turned away quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it, and have sacrificed to it, and said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt.’” Yahweh said to Moses, “I have seen these people, and behold, they are a stiff-necked people.
(Exodus 32:1-9 WEBA)

According to Hebrews 1 the God who spoke in the past through the prophets and by various means is the same God who spoke to us in these last days by His Son.
According to Jesus it was Father in Him doing His work and the message given was not His own.

Again I ask you: Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If HE always was and always was God how does this or you believe in ONE God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

 

[Randy]

Are you saying Elohim is not the true God?

The Godhead, The Father, the Word, and the Spirit are one…

God
Spirit
Creator
Savior


They function as One.


The Father’s will is expressed by the Son, (Word), and the word the Son speaks is brought into manifestation by the power of the Spirit.







JLB

I am stating what Jesus stated that is the Father is the only true God.

This is from the will of another and it is the Fathers Deity in fullness that was gifted to Jesus. Col 1:19
So Jesus is all that the Father is. (God)

 

[Cooper]

According to Hebrews 1 the God who spoke in the past through the prophets and by various means is the same God who spoke to us in these last days by His Son.
According to Jesus it was Father in Him doing His work and the message given was not His own.

Again I ask you: Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If HE always was and always was God how does this or you believe in ONE God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

Jesus was mortal man in the flesh, like us, he had to be, so he could take our sins upon himself. But the Father in Him was Yahweh, and as Yahweh is spirit in Christ, we have God with us in Jesus Christ. Father, the Holy Spirit, and Son are the One God with us, the three persons of the Trinity in One God.
.

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

There are multiple places where One YHWH, sends another YHWH to perform specific tasks

Genesis 19:24
One YHWH on earth raining fire and brimstone from YHWH in heaven

Zechariah 2:8​	For thus saith YHWH of hosts; After the glory hath He sent Me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye.
9​	For, behold, I will shake Mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that YHWH of hosts hath sent Me.
​

Hosea 1:7​

But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by YHWH their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Isaiah 48:16
Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now Adonai YHWH, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.

 

[JLB]

I am stating what Jesus stated that is the Father is the only true God.

This is from the will of another and it is the Fathers Deity in fullness that was gifted to Jesus. Col 1:19
So Jesus is all that the Father is. (God)

There is one God; The Father, the Word and the Spirit.


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


Because the Father is the one true God, does that make the Son the one false God?


The Father is the only true God.
The Son is the only true God.
The Spirit is the only true God.

Elohim is the one true God.

The Godhead is the one true God.





JLB

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

The Greatest Commandment

Shema Yisrael YHWH Eloheinu YHWH Echad

Echad = A composite One

There is a Hebrew word that could have been used to say that YHWH was a singular one, the word Yachid

The evening and morning is Echad day - the combination

A man and woman joined together are Echad

There are many more examples of how Echad is a composite unity and not a sole one.

 

[Butch5]

I agree there are two Yahweh. One was the Golden Calf and the other was the God of Moses. What is your point? Or are you saying the Jews have their own God, while the Gentiles have Jesus?

When the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we don’t know what has become of him.” Aaron said to them, “Take off the golden rings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them to me.” All the people took off the golden rings which were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron. He received what they handed him, fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made it a molten calf. Then they said, “These are your gods, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt.” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made a proclamation, and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to Yahweh.” They rose up early on the next day, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

Yahweh spoke to Moses, “Go, get down; for your people, who you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves! They have turned away quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it, and have sacrificed to it, and said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt.’” Yahweh said to Moses, “I have seen these people, and behold, they are a stiff-necked people.
(Exodus 32:1-9 WEBA)

Do you realize when you renounce reason you cannot prove your point?

 

[Butch5]

The Spirit of God acts on Jesus's will. He has that authority. So both can be said. Jesus raised Himself from the dead at the will and command of the Father and God raised Jesus from the dead for it was by His Spirit. Man can kill the body but not the spirit or soul. Jesus was alive in the spirit and never dies. And alive in the spirit He preached to the spirits in prison.

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

He authority to do it, not the power to do it. Jesus was raised by the Father, Paul states that. He didn't raise Himself from the dead.

If Jesus was alive in spirit then He didnt die for sins. Because if He was alive He didn't die.

 

[Butch5]

Why do so many Christians throw common sense and reason out the window when it come to talking about God? Do you realize if you renounce reason you can prove nothing? If you renounce reason there's no point in wasting your time debating because all you have is opinion. Reason is the only way to understand truth. It never ceases to amaze me that people will believe the most ridiculous things when someone says them about God as though God isn't the one who created reason. He created reason and the human mind. The mind works the way it does because God made it that way. To then renounce that and claim you're correct is ridiculous. If I went around saying that me, my son, and my grandson, were one and claimed we all combined to form one me, people would have me committed to a mental institution. Yet when someone says that very thing about God multitudes believe it. It's mind numbing.

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

Do you realize when you renounce reason you cannot prove your point?

Leviticus 17:11​

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

John 10:17​

Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.

Acts 20:28​

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the ekklesia of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.

The Blood made the Atonement, His Spirit did not die

The Gospel, He Died for our sins, Was Buried. and rose on the third day... His Body was buried, not His Spirit.

Are any of you teaching the True Gospel? https://JewishNotGreek.com

 

[Randy]

He authority to do it, not the power to do it. Jesus was raised by the Father, Paul states that. He didn't raise Himself from the dead.

If Jesus was alive in spirit then He didnt die for sins. Because if He was alive He didn't die.

Man can't kill the spirit. It was written He was put to death in the "flesh". He can and did purchase us for God His blood.
His power has always been from the Father. The miracles performed were by the Spirit of God. It does not make sense that the Father would give Him a command that He couldn't carry out.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Those in Christ never die. Our flesh dies. Our spirit lives in Christ and never dies just as Jesus lives by the Father.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?

The eternal life in Jesus is the Father.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
Jesus has no end because of the Father. We have no end because we live in Jesus.

 

[eddif]

The Seed of the Father.

Which can we say is his word's.
Jesus is singular seed.

eddif

 

[Butch5]

Leviticus 17:11​

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

John 10:17​

Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.

Acts 20:28​

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the ekklesia of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.

The Blood made the Atonement, His Spirit did not die

The Gospel, He Died, Was Buried. and rose on the third day... His Body was buried, not His Spirit.

His spirit? If Jesus is spirit which didn't die, then He didn't die for sins. If His body was just some disposable part, it wasn't Him it was a part of Him. If that's the case then He didn't die for sins. But Jesus wasn't spirit. When He appeared on the water, the disciples feared that they had seen a spirit and Jesus said to them, 'a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have'. So, He told them succinctly that He was not a spirit. Paul said that Christ was in the form of God, He emptied Himself of that form and took on the form of man. Man is not a spirit Look at Gen 2:7. Man consists of the dust of the earth. God then breathed "His" breath or spirit into man And man became a lving soul. So man is a living soul that consists of the dust of the earth and the breath or spirit of God. John said that the word became flesh. He didn't say the Word put on a flesh suit, or that the Word was wearing flesh. He said, the Word "became" flesh. When you combine Paul's words with John's the only conclusion is that He put off the form of God and became human flesh. To become something requires a transformation from what one wasn't to what one is. In Gen 6 God said that His spirit would not always strive with man because he is flesh. So God acknowledges that man is flesh. He didn't say man is a spirit in a flesh suit. He said, man is flesh. Thus, Jesus is flesh. That is how He died.

This idea that man is a spirit is not from Scripture. It entered the faith through Greek Philosophy. It was around long before Jesus came and it's been around since. It's the musings of men over millennia. But, it's not Scripture

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

His spirit? If Jesus is spirit which didn't die, then He didn't die for sins. If His body was just some disposable part, it wasn't Him it was a part of Him. If that's the case then He didn't die for sins. But Jesus wasn't spirit. When He appeared on the water, the disciples feared that they had seen a spirit and Jesus said to them, 'a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have'. So, He told them succinctly that He was not a spirit. Paul said that Christ was in the form of God, He emptied Himself of that form and took on the form of man. Man is not a spirit Look at Gen 2:7. Man consists of the dust of the earth. God then breathed "His" breath or spirit into man And man became a lving soul. So man is a living soul that consists of the dust of the earth and the breath or spirit of God. John said that the word became flesh. He didn't say the Word put on a flesh suit, or that the Word was wearing flesh. He said, the Word "became" flesh. When you combine Paul's words with John's the only conclusion is that He put off the form of God and became human flesh. To become something requires a transformation from what one wasn't to what one is. In Gen 6 God said that His spirit would not always strive with man because he is flesh. So God acknowledges that man is flesh. He didn't say man is a spirit in a flesh suit. He said, man is flesh. Thus, Jesus is flesh. That is how He died.

This idea that man is a spirit is not from Scripture. It entered the faith through Greek Philosophy. It was around long before Jesus came and it's been around since. It's the musings of men over millennia. But, it's not Scripture

To be perfectly forward as to my thinking at this point, after reading through your replies, You are a natural man, unable to understand the things of the Spirit of God, Prevented even because of the hardness of your heart... Your "reasoning" is carnal.

This is my second admonition to you, and keeping with the word of God, we're done.

say what you like, because from this point on, what you believe does not matter to me.

It's like listening to a watchtower parrot, the source of many of your failed arguments.

For the rest of you

No matter how well you are able to answer, give a defence for the hope in you, the perfect answer

people like butch are unable to comprehend it.

 

[Cooper]

Why do so many Christians throw common sense and reason out the window when it come to talking about God? Do you realize if you renounce reason you can prove nothing? If you renounce reason there's no point in wasting your time debating because all you have is opinion. Reason is the only way to understand truth. It never ceases to amaze me that people will believe the most ridiculous things when someone says them about God as though God isn't the one who created reason. He created reason and the human mind. The mind works the way it does because God made it that way. To then renounce that and claim you're correct is ridiculous. If I went around saying that me, my son, and my grandson, were one and claimed we all combined to form one me, people would have me committed to a mental institution. Yet when someone says that very thing about God multitudes believe it. It's mind numbing.

Your family is like three generations apart, but we are talking about the One God who was known as the Word. The Word became flesh and they called his name Jesus. It is a name only, and that is the name the angel told Mary to call the creator of the world, whose plan it was to save His people from their iniquities.
.

 

[Butch5]

Man can't kill the spirit. It was written He was put to death in the "flesh". He can and did purchase us for God His blood.
His power has always been from the Father. The miracles performed were by the Spirit of God. It does not make sense that the Father would give Him a command that He couldn't carry out.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Those in Christ never die. Our flesh dies. Our spirit lives in Christ and never dies just as Jesus lives by the Father.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?

The eternal life in Jesus is the Father.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
Jesus has no end because of the Father. We have no end because we live in Jesus.

Just because something doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that God can't do it. Authority and power are two different things. Jesus stated Himself that He didn't have the power to do the works He did, but rather it was the Father doing the works through Him. Again, Paul states plainly that it was the Father that raised Christ from the dead. Would you argue with Paul? Maybe you're misunderstanding Jesus statement.

Those in Christ do die. It happens everyday. It's not that the body dies and a soul and/or spirit lives on. Man is flesh. The Bible is crystal clear on this. Too many have been taught this Greek Philosophocal concept of Dualism. Man is not a spirit with a flesh body, He is a flesh body with the spirit or breath of God in him.

This idea that man is a spirit is why so many Christians don't understand the Bible and why we have all of these different views and opinions out there. Everyone, whether intentional or not, is trying to make the Bible fit what they believe. You can search the Bible over and over, you will not find a passage of Scripture that says man is a spirit, not one. There are passages that talk about man having a spirit or breath in him, but that is God's. On the other hand we have crystal clear passages that state unequivocally that man is flesh. The problem is that it doesn't fit what most believe so they reject it.

To be perfectly forward as to my thinking at this point, after reading through your replies, You are a natural man, unable to understand the things of the Spirit of God, Prevented even because of the hardness of your heart... Your "reasoning" is carnal.

This is my second admonition to you, and keeping with the word of God, we're done.

say what you like, because from this point on, what you believe does not matter to me.

It's like listening to a watchtower parrot, the source of many of your failed arguments.

For the rest of you

No matter how well you are able to answer, give a defence for the hope in you, the perfect answer

people like butch are unable to comprehend it.

Lol. That's the typical response when someone can't defend their position. You know, Paul praised the Bereans for going to the Scriputres to see if what he said was true. Did you even do that? You can continue to deny what Scripture says and hold to your beliefs. But, one day you're going to wake up at the resurrection and be really surprised that you had it all wrong.