Jesus is not YHVH

[Jim Parker]

How come those Jews did not seek to stone him?

Because they had already decided to use official channels to execute Him. They came to arrest Him, to try Him, to find Him guilty, and to have Him Crucified. They wanted a legal, public, execution not a stoning by a mob. (It's all there in the Gospels.)

How come the Jews in John 8:58 did not fall backwards?

For the same reason that you don't fall off your chair when you type Yeshua." (And if you don't know what that means I'm afraid I am not capable of explaining it to you.)


[/QUOTE] "Jesus" is not English. It is a conglomeration of Hebrew, Greek, Latin and English (Yeshua-Iesous-Iesus-Jesus). [/QUOTE]

That is total nonsense. "Jesus" is an English word. Where it came from is an entirely different subject. In English speaking countries, when we pronounce the name of the Word made flesh, the Christ, the Son of God, we say "Jesus."

English uses tens of thousands of words which have their origin in other languages. "Bungalo" is a Hindi word as is "Khakis." "Psyche" is a Greek word. "Blitzkrieg" is a German word as is "Flack."* "Microscope" is a combination of the Greek words "mikros" and "Skopos." The name Jesus is no different. It is the English pronunciation of the Greek word "Isous" just as "Christ" is the English pronunciation of the Greek word "Xristos."

* FLAK: FL from Flieger (aircraft, literally, flyer) + A from Abwehr (defense) + K from Kanone (gun) = Fliegerabwherkanone (Anti-aircraft defense gun)

So when the blind man in John 9:9 said, "ego eimi", why didn't they stone him for claiming to be the "I AM"?

I would have thought that the answer would be obvious, but, since you seem to be having a bit of difficulty with the language, I will attempt to explain as best as I am able.

The blind man was asked if he was the man who was born blind and he responded "I am." What is understood in that answer is "I am the man who was born blind." not I AM 'ho on' " But when Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM." They knew that Jesus was saying that He was God because of the context of the words.

It is similar to your response to a question like, "Are you going to church now?" If you responded "I am.", no one would think you meant "I am God." So when the pharisees ask the man "Are you that blind man?" and he answered, "I am, they would surely understand that he was stating that he was "that blind man" not "I am God."

Does that clear it up for you or do you still need some help?

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Jesus is Lord, YHWH, the Savior of all Mankind.


He is the great I AM!

AMEN!!!!!

 

[Jim Parker]

Hear oh Israel, the LORD, the Lord God is one.

Or:

ἄκουε Ισραηλ κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἡμῶν κύριος εἷς ἐστιν

Or:

shama` Yisra'el Yĕhovah elohiym echad Yĕhovah



iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Many believe that Jesus is YHVH.

Actually, YHWH is used to relate a very primitive understanding of God. The fullest understanding would not be revealed until after the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus and the coming of the Holy Spirit.

So saying that Jesus is not YHWH is a bit like saying that steel is not a quark.


iakov the fool

 

[JLB]

16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:16


Jesus is the Lord of Lords -

Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.
2 Oh, give thanks to the God of gods!
For His mercy endures forever.
3 Oh, give thanks to the Lord of lords!
For His mercy endures forever:
4 To Him who alone does great wonders,
For His mercy endures forever;
5 To Him who by wisdom made the heavens,
For His mercy endures forever;
6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;
7 To Him who made great lights,
For His mercy endures forever—
8 The sun to rule by day,
For His mercy endures forever;
9 The moon and stars to rule by night,
For His mercy endures forever.
Psalm 136:1-9


and again -


For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe.
Deuteronomy 10:17

 

[Jim Parker]

16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:16


Jesus is the Lord of Lords -

Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.
2 Oh, give thanks to the God of gods!
For His mercy endures forever.
3 Oh, give thanks to the Lord of lords!
For His mercy endures forever:
4 To Him who alone does great wonders,
For His mercy endures forever;
5 To Him who by wisdom made the heavens,
For His mercy endures forever;
6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;
7 To Him who made great lights,
For His mercy endures forever—
8 The sun to rule by day,
For His mercy endures forever;
9 The moon and stars to rule by night,
For His mercy endures forever.
Psalm 136:1-9

and again -

For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe.
Deuteronomy 10:17

And then there's
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

iakov the fool

 

[Corn Pop]

This is the best way I can understand it.

There is only one God, the Most high, and the Most High is a Spirit.

Now the Most High was "inside Jesus Christ", dwelt inside him, in other words, Jesus Spirit, conscience, whatever you want to call it we all have, was The Most High himself.

If people can be demon possesed and a spiritual demon can dwell inside a person, the Most High can also dwell inside a person. Then again Jesus said he dont speak his own authority but what is given him, just like the Holy Spirit speaks what is given through the Most High.

Born of a heavenly seed from a virgin, not from dirt like Adam, I can be sure Jesus is at least the real heavenly Son of God.

Perfect seed that walked earth perfectly. Worthy of The Most High giving him all Authority in Heaven.

 

[jocor]

The truth is, Jesus wasn't addressing the Pharisee's that you claim had this "built up" animosity that just came to a boiling point, in which they had just had enough.

Jesus wasn't even addressing them. He was addressing the Jews who had just believed in Him.

If that is true, then why did believing Jews seek to stone him? It is true that he addressed believing Jews in verses 31-32, but from verses 33-59 he is addressing unbelieving Jews who sought to kill him. If the "supposed" believing Jews were still being addressed starting in verse 33, that simply proves they were not believing from their heart.

Here is what the scriptures reveal to us, about The Lord Jesus' conversation with the Jews.

29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, John 8:29-31


56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


Verse 56 - Jesus stated that He existed before Abraham, and that Abraham knew Him.
Verse 57 - The Jews denied this was possible because of His age.
Verse 58 - Jesus states again that He existed before Abraham, and invoked the Name of YHWH, the self existent One as His own.
Verse 59 - The Jews reaction to Jesus claiming the He was YHWH, was to pick up stones without hesitation and stone Him to death for blasphemy.


This conversation was not with the Pharisee's that came to get Him in the Garden or the Pharisee's that He had embarrassed so many times before, but this conversation was with those Jews who believed in Him.

First, why did you leave out verses 33-55? Second, why did "believing" Jews seek to stone him?

 

[JLB]

If that is true, then why did believing Jews seek to stone him? It is true that he addressed believing Jews in verses 31-32, but from verses 33-59 he is addressing unbelieving Jews who sought to kill him. If the "supposed" believing Jews were still being addressed starting in verse 33, that simply proves they were not believing from their heart.


First, why did you leave out verses 33-55? Second, why did "believing" Jews seek to stone him?

• These Jews believed in Him as the One God sent, as Messiah.
• But when He claimed to be YHWH, the Lord God. They picked up stones to stone Him.

29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.

• Now read carefully from verse 31 through 59, as you can see Jesus is still addressing the Jews who believed in Him.

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”
39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:29-59


This is what John went on to emphasize in Chapter 12 -

42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. John 12:42-43


Again, your "theory" that the Pharisee's, due to a culmination of frustration with dealing with Him, had just kinda "snapped" out of anger, and not because He had said "before Abraham was, I AM" , [invoking the name of YHWH as His own], completely crumbles when the context is read to whom Jesus was addressing.

He was addressing Jews who had just believed, and not the ones you based your theory on.


Jesus said He was before Abraham, and is indeed YHWH, The Lord and Savior of Israel.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I do not deny that YHWH (the Father of Yeshua) was speaking.


I can deny your interpretation of what Peter was saying.

Now on to the Angel of the Lord.

8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Zechariah 12:8-9


The Angel of the Lord is referred to as God.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-5

Was Moses looking upon God the Father, or the Angel of the Lord?



JLB

 

[JLB]

The words in red are Father YHWH's words, not Yeshua's. John is giving a greeting starting in verse four and ending in verse seven. Verse four is a greeting from the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come." Verse five is a greeting from Yeshua the Messiah. Verse eight is spoken by the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 1:7-8

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty, are Titles of Jesus Christ, as all these titles refer to the same One in this verse... in other words, who was, who is, and who is to come, is also called the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

The Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and Last are titles of Jesus Christ.

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”Revelation 22:12


Here's the Context -

6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” Revelation 22:6-16


Just so there is no mistake as to Who is speaking in these verse's -

Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place....
I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Key points in these verses's -

• Jesus is the Alpha and Omega... It is Jesus who is coming quickly.
• The Lord God sent His angel...
• The Lord God is in fact, Jesus Who sent His angel.

JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

This is the best way I can understand it.

There is only one God, the Most high, and the Most High is a Spirit.

Now the Most High was "inside Jesus Christ", dwelt inside him, in other words, Jesus Spirit, conscience, whatever you want to call it we all have, was The Most High himself.

If people can be demon possesed and a spiritual demon can dwell inside a person, the Most High can also dwell inside a person. Then again Jesus said he dont speak his own authority but what is given him, just like the Holy Spirit speaks what is given through the Most High.

Born of a heavenly seed from a virgin, not from dirt like Adam, I can be sure Jesus is at least the real heavenly Son of God.

Perfect seed that walked earth perfectly. Worthy of The Most High giving him all Authority in Heaven.

And how did you come to this understanding?

iakov the fool

 

[Free]

How would you interpret this? 'Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”'

Exactly as Jesus says. His statements in no way mean that he isn't also God.

 

[jocor]

• These Jews believed in Him as the One God sent, as Messiah.
• But when He claimed to be YHWH, the Lord God. They picked up stones to stone Him.

So, what you are trying to tell me is that these Jews knew he was the Messiah, but they picked up stones to stone him anyway; and that the only reason they did that is because he said, "Before Abraham was, I am"????

Did you overlook the following verses?

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
​

They already had it in their heart to kill him BEFORE he said, "I am". His entire rebuke of them was more fuel for the fire burning in their heart to kill him.

• Now read carefully from verse 31 through 59, as you can see Jesus is still addressing the Jews who believed in Him.

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”
39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:29-59

Either verse 32 ends his words to the believing Jews and then he begins to address the unbelieving Jews or the Jews that "believed on him" believed only in word, but not with their mind and heart.
If they truly believed, they would NOT have sought to kill him, nor would they have accused Yeshua of having a devil.

 

[jocor]

The Angel of the Lord is referred to as God.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-5

Was Moses looking upon God the Father, or the Angel of the Lord?

JLB

He was looking upon the Angel of Yahweh, not Yahweh Himself. Yahweh was speaking to Moses through the angel just as He spoke to Israel through the prophets. Isaiah said;

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:22)​

Does that mean Isaiah is referred to as "God"?

 

[JLB]

He was looking upon the Angel of Yahweh, not Yahweh Himself. Yahweh was speaking to Moses through the angel just as He spoke to Israel through the prophets. Isaiah said;

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:22)​

Does that mean Isaiah is referred to as "God"?

Let's try it again, and see if you can answer a straightforward question from the Law?

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-5

Here is what the scripture says -

And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-5


... the Angel of the Lord appeared to him

Was Moses looking upon God the Father, or the Angel of the Lord?



JLB

 

[JLB]

So, what you are trying to tell me is that these Jews knew he was the Messiah, but they picked up stones to stone him anyway; and that the only reason they did that is because he said, "Before Abraham was, I am"????

Did you overlook the following verses?

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
​

They already had it in their heart to kill him BEFORE he said, "I am". His entire rebuke of them was more fuel for the fire burning in their heart to kill him.
Either verse 32 ends his words to the believing Jews and then he begins to address the unbelieving Jews or the Jews that "believed on him" believed only in word, but not with their mind and heart.
If they truly believed, they would NOT have sought to kill him, nor would they have accused Yeshua of having a devil.

The scriptures plainly teach that these Jews who believed in Him, picked up stones to stone Him, when he said these words... Before Abraham was I AM.



Your claim was this was because of prior frustration , that the Pharisee's picked up stones to stone Him, because He was claiming that He was greater than Abraham, when in fact, the context showed that these were those Jews who believed in Him, UNTIL they heard these words,
...before Abraham was, I AM.

Which means He claimed the Title of YHWH.

The name that was revealed from the burning bush, to Moses, by The Angel of the Lord, who is also called the Lord, and God.


3 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

7 And the Lord said: “I have surely seen the oppression of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sorrows. 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel has come to Me, and I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt.”

11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?”

12 So He said, “I will certainly be with you. And this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain.”

13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Exodus 3:3-14



JLB

 

[JLB]

The words in red are Father YHWH's words, not Yeshua's. John is giving a greeting starting in verse four and ending in verse seven. Verse four is a greeting from the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come." Verse five is a greeting from Yeshua the Messiah. Verse eight is spoken by the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."


I have provided a Scriptural foundation and textual evidence for everything.


Why haven't you addressed my point concerning the Septuagint?

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 1:7-8

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty, are Titles of Jesus Christ, as all these titles refer to the same One in this verse... in other words, who was, who is, and who is to come, is also called the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

The Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and Last are titles of Jesus Christ.

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”Revelation 22:12


Here's the Context -

6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” Revelation 22:6-16


Just so there is no mistake as to Who is speaking in these verse's -

Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place....
I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Key points in these verses's -

• Jesus is the Alpha and Omega... It is Jesus who is coming quickly.
• The Lord God sent His angel...
• The Lord God is in fact, Jesus Who sent His angel.

JLB

 

[jocor]

Let's try it again, and see if you can answer a straightforward question from the Law?

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-5

Here is what the scripture says -

And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-5


... the Angel of the Lord appeared to him

Was Moses looking upon God the Father, or the Angel of the Lord?

JLB

[Demeaning personal comment. Violation of ToS 2.4. WIP]

 

[Jim Parker]

[Reference to deleted post. WIP]

"Yaweh" is one of many names used by the early Jews (1500 BC ff) to refer to God. They had no concept of God as Trinity.

Jesus (whom you insist on referring to as "Yeshua") is the Word made flesh. The early Jews had no concept of God being Theos, Logos and Pneumatikos. Jesus is not the manifestation of the entire Trinity. However, in Jesus, the fullness of the Trinity (Godhead) dwells in bodily form.(Col 2:9)

Jesus is not Yahweh because the two names refer to two different understandings of God.

No, "I AM" is not the same as Yahweh. But when Jesus said "I AM" He was telling them that He was God, not just Yahweh but also Yahweh Elohim, El, Eloah, Adoni, and every other name of God.