Jesus is not YHVH

[jocor]

Exo 4:5 - That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.

Exo 6:3 - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, bythe name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
​

If we can accept that Jehovah is the God of the patriarchs even though they did not know Him by that name, then it is not a stretch to accept Jesus as a further clarification of Jehovah. Is it possible to accept Yahweh or El Shaddai as other names for The Word?

The patriarchs knew and used the name YHWH.

Gen_14:22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto YHWH, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
Gen_27:7 Bring me venison, and make me savoury meat, that I (Isaac) may eat, and bless thee before YHWH before my death.
Gen_28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely YHWH is in this place; and I knew it not.​

I believe Ex 6:3 should end with a question mark.

Isa 13:6 ¶ Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

1Co 1:8 - Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The "day of YHWH" begins when the 7th seal of Revelation is opened.
The "day of our Master Yeshua Messiah" takes place either when he comes to resurrect the dead at the 7th trumpet or when he comes in Rev 19 to put down the wicked at Armageddon and establish his Kingdom on earth.​

Psa 2:2 - The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed,saying,

Psa 2:7 - I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thouart my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

1Sa 2:35 - And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.

Exo 4:22 - And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Because of the use of type/antitype, we can see that the term anointed does not always refer literally to Jesus, and the term God's son is not necessarily reserved for Jesus, though both point us to Him.

There is no doubt that Psalm 2:7 refers to Yeshua since it was quoted by Paul in Acts 13:33:

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Yeshua again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.​

 

[JLB]

The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Here are a few versions that were translated differently based on those early mss:

"He appeared in a body" (NIV)

"He who was manifested in the flesh" (ASV)

"He who was revealed in the flesh" (NASB)

"He was manifested in the flesh" (RSV)

"Which was manifested in the flesh" (Douey-Rheims)

"Who was manifested in the flesh" (NAB)"

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. KJV

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels,
preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory. NKJV

and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety -- God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory! YLT

And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness, which is, God is manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of Angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up in glory. 1599 Geneva Bible

When compared to John, the Word was made flesh and the Word was God.

When compared to Titus 2:13 we see -
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.


And we have Jesus Himself, saying He is YHWH, and almost got stoned for it.

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him;
John 8:58-59


We have the Spirit of Christ, speaking through the mouth of Isaiah, saying -
For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:3
Jesus is the Savior of Mankind.

Yet you say Christ didn't exist before the Man Jesus Christ was born of the virgin.

How is it the Spirit of Christ was speaking through the old testament prophets and creating all things if He didn't exist?


Then we have the Spirit of Christ speaking through Zechariah, these words -

1.] The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

in verse 1 the Spirit of Christ says He stretched out the heavens and formed the spirit of man within him

9.] It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

In verse 9 the Spirit of Christ in Zechariah foretells of Him returning from heaven and destroying those nations who surround Jerusalem at the end of the age, when Jesus returns in Revelation 19.

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

Then in verse 10, the Spirit of Christ foretelling of His return, as we see the same thing as in Matthew 24, whereby Jesus returns and all the tribes of the earth mourn because of Him.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

The Spirit of Christ, is the Spirit of YHWH.


Jesus is YHWH, our Savior.

Our great God and Savior.



JLB

 

[JLB]

2Ki 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.
Does this mean Elijah himself in spirit form was working in Elisha?

Makes no sense!

The Spirit of Christ, was in Zechariah saying these words -

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10

You can't deny that YHWH was the One speaking.

You can't deny it was the Spirit of Christ speaking.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

Jesus is YHWH, the Lord our Savior.

There is none besides Him.



JLB

 

[jocor]

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. KJV

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels,
preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory. NKJV

and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety -- God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory! YLT

And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness, which is, God is manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of Angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up in glory. 1599 Geneva Bible

Just goes to show that trinitarian translators are divided on how this verse should be translated. The translators whose versions I posted are all in agreement that the verse is spurious.

• This version of the verse cannot be found absolutely anywhere in early Christian writings before the Trinity was developed. Even during the Arian controversy during the 4th & 5th centuries not one person ever brought up your version of the verse. It is hard to believe that such a primary verse supporting Christ being God was not brought up in those arguments. Why? Because "God was manifested in the flesh" did not exist in any text prior to the final development of the trinity doctrine. It was a later corruption in order to lend support to the trinity doctrine.

And we have Jesus Himself, saying He is YHWH, and almost got stoned for it.

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him;
John 8:58-59

You are assuming he said "YHWH". That is not found in the Greek text. Our Greek copies say he said, "ego eimi". If he was truly trying to tell them he was the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14, he should have used "ho on" as the LXX does.

Exo 3:14 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς. (LXX Greek)
Exo 3:14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. (Brenton's English LXX)
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (KJV)
​

We have the Spirit of Christ, speaking through the mouth of Isaiah, saying -
For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:3
Jesus is the Savior of Mankind.

How is it that you can have Christ speaking through every prophet whenever they use "YHWH"? David was prophesying in Psalm 2 when he clearly referred to YHWH as the Father. Why don't you teach us that it was really Christ saying, "Thou art my Son ..." in verse 7? The fact is, you are just guessing who is speaking. I am not guessing. If the text says "YHWH", it refers to the Father as in Isaiah 43:3.

Also, in case you are wondering, both the Father and the Son are our Saviors. The Father is the ultimate Savior and He saves people through His Son whom He appointed and made to be our Savior.

 

[jocor]

Makes no sense!

The Spirit of Christ, was in Zechariah saying these words -

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10

You can't deny that YHWH was the One speaking.

I do not deny that YHWH (the Father of Yeshua) was speaking.

You can't deny it was the Spirit of Christ speaking.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

I can deny your interpretation of what Peter was saying.

 

[JohnDB]

...and He will be called Emmanuel meaning "God with us".

 

[JLB]

I do not deny that YHWH (the Father of Yeshua) was speaking.

The Spirit of Christ in the prophet Zechariah was speaking, which is the Spirit of the Lord.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

This is what the spirit of YHWH, Who is the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ said through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet -

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

Zechariah the prophet, by the Spirit of Christ in him, spoke these words, which foretold of His suffering as the Messiah.


Whether you deny it or not, that is what the scriptures say.


Just as the scripture says, Jesus is our great God and Savior. Titus 2:13

Just as the scriptures say The Word was God, and the Word became flesh. John 1:1.14



7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:7-8

Here in these verses Jesus says He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, which is a reference to Almighty God.


Basically all you've done is just explain away and deny what the scriptures say about Jesus as Lord our Savior, which is the title of YHWH.

Jesus says He is I AM, and plainly says Abraham saw His day and was glad. John 8:58

I AM is a direct reference to YHWH, as The Lord revealed His Name to Moses. Exodus 3 -

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. Exodus 3:14-15

Now you are trying to deny that I AM is a reference to YHWH.


The Spirit of Christ was in the OT prophets, speaking about His sufferings to come, when He would become flesh and be revealed as the Messiah.

He has existed from the beginning, as He is called the Beginning, and has created all things.


Jesus is Lord, YHWH



JLB

 

[JLB]

Just goes to show that trinitarian translators are divided on how this verse should be translated. The translators whose versions I posted are all in agreement that the verse is spurious.

• This version of the verse cannot be found absolutely anywhere in early Christian writings before the Trinity was developed. Even during the Arian controversy during the 4th & 5th centuries not one person ever brought up your version of the verse. It is hard to believe that such a primary verse supporting Christ being God was not brought up in those arguments. Why? Because "God was manifested in the flesh" did not exist in any text prior to the final development of the trinity doctrine. It was a later corruption in order to lend support to the trinity doctrine.

All opinion.

That's all you have done is state your opinion and denial of Christ as Savior, for there is none besides Him.

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14

He is the Lord God who made covenant with Abraham, and became flesh.


Same Lord.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I do not deny that YHWH (the Father of Yeshua) was speaking.


I can deny your interpretation of what Peter was saying.

Now on to the Angel of the Lord.

8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Zechariah 12:8-9


The Angel of the Lord is referred to as God.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-5

Was Moses looking upon God the Father, or the Angel of the Lord?



JLB

 

[mutzrein]

God begets God.

Man begets man.

Kind begets after it's own kind.

JLB

So where does this assertion come from, that 'God begets God'. Is it some denominational doctrine, part of some creed perhaps? Can anyone point me to the first use of the term? Thanks

 

[jocor]

...and He will be called Emmanuel meaning "God with us".

I believe this name is to be understood in the light of Acts 10:38;

"How God anointed Yeshua of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for (El-God-YHWH) was with him."​

Not that Yeshua was the "El" in Emmanuel, but that El was with and in Yeshua. God was with us because He was with Yeshua and Yeshua was with us.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

I believe this means that YHWH, Yeshua's Father, was living in Yeshua through His indwelling Holy Spirit just as He lives in all believers the same way.

If you choose to use the logic that "God with us" means that Jesus is God, then consider the name Jehu (Yehu). In Hebrew, this name means "He is Yah" or "Yah is He." Does that mean the man Jehu was, in reality, Yahweh?

 

[jocor]

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:7-8

Here in these verses Jesus says He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, which is a reference to Almighty God.

The words in red are Father YHWH's words, not Yeshua's. John is giving a greeting starting in verse four and ending in verse seven. Verse four is a greeting from the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come." Verse five is a greeting from Yeshua the Messiah. Verse eight is spoken by the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Basically all you've done is just explain away and deny what the scriptures say about Jesus as Lord our Savior, which is the title of YHWH.

I have provided a Scriptural foundation and textual evidence for everything.

Jesus says He is

I AM, and plainly says Abraham saw His day and was glad. John 8:58

I AM is a direct reference to YHWH, as The Lord revealed His Name to Moses. Exodus 3 -

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. Exodus 3:14-15

Now you are trying to deny that I AM is a reference to YHWH.

Why haven't you addressed my point concerning the Septuagint?

 

[JohnDB]

God becoming man is not the same as man having the Holy Spirit.

God is infinite and omnipresent.

 

[jocor]

All opinion.

That's all you have done is state your opinion and denial of Christ as Savior, for there is none besides Him.

Please provide a quote where I denied "Christ as Savior" so you can justify your false accusation. In post #64, I specifically said both the Father and the Son are our Saviors.

 

[JLB]

Please provide a quote where I denied "Christ as Savior" so you can justify your false accusation. In post #64, I specifically said both the Father and the Son are our Saviors.

Isaiah says YHWH is the Savior.


For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.
Isaiah 43:3,11

The New Testament reveals Jesus as the Lord of the OT and is our great God and Savior.

looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

If you don't believe Jesus is the Lord God and Savior of Isaiah, then how can you think He is the God and Savior of Titus?


JLB

 

[JLB]

The words in red are Father YHWH's words, not Yeshua's. John is giving a greeting starting in verse four and ending in verse seven. Verse four is a greeting from the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come." Verse five is a greeting from Yeshua the Messiah. Verse eight is spoken by the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

The Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and Last are titles of Jesus Christ.

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:12


Here's the Context -

6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” Revelation 22:6-16


Just so there is no mistake as to Who is speaking in these verse's -

Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place....
I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Key points in these verses's -

• Jesus is the Alpha and Omega... It is Jesus who is coming quickly.
• The Lord God sent His angel...
• The Lord God is in fact, Jesus Who sent His angel.

JLB

 

[JLB]

You are assuming he said "YHWH". That is not found in the Greek text. Our Greek copies say he said, "ego eimi". If he was truly trying to tell them he was the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14, he should have used "ho on" as the LXX does.

Exo 3:14 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς. (LXX Greek)
Exo 3:14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. (Brenton's English LXX)
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (KJV)

Was the Old Testament written in Hebrew or Greek?


JLB

 

[JLB]

So where does this assertion come from, that 'God begets God'. Is it some denominational doctrine, part of some creed perhaps? Can anyone point me to the first use of the term? Thanks

11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed,and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good....
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:11-12, 24-25

What is God's only Begotten Son?

God?
Man?
Angel?


God's only Begotten Son existed before He became flesh, as creator of all things.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Genesis 1:26

All the "Us" in this verse had the same Image and likeness.


JLB

 

[mutzrein]

11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed,and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good....
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:11-12, 24-25

What is God's only Begotten Son?

God?
Man?
Angel?

God's only Begotten Son existed before He became flesh, as creator of all things.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Genesis 1:26

All the "Us" in this verse had the same Image and likeness.

JLB

Beyond arguing the concept itself, what I am looking for is the origin of the phrase, 'God begets God' which you have used. Obviously, the phrase itself is not scriptural so it must be attributed to someone, some doctrine, creed or ...? Are you able to point to it to aid my understanding of it's foundation. Thanks

 

[jocor]

Isaiah says YHWH is the Savior.


For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.
Isaiah 43:3,11

Correct.

The New Testament reveals Jesus as the Lord of the OT and is our great God and Savior.

looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

If you don't believe Jesus is the Lord God and Savior of Isaiah, then how can you think He is the God and Savior of Titus?

JLB

In post #38, I clearly stated that the version you used (which you failed to reveal) was not what the Greek says. When you understand what the Greek says, then you will know that it is not calling Yeshua "our great God". The word "our" is only used once in that verse for "our Saviour Yeshua Messiah". It is, indeed, calling him our "Saviour". That is why I believe we have two Saviours. Do you deny that our Heavenly Father (who you say is not the Son) is our Saviour as well?

1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
​

So then, "God our Saviour", in this verse, refers to the Father who is distinguished from the Son. Yet, the Son is said to be "our Saviour" in Titus 2:13. Since the Father IS NOT the Son, then we MUST have two Saviours. The Father is the ultimate Saviour and He sent His Son to do the saving making him a Saviour as well.