Jesus is Presently King of the World

[jasoncran]

of course satan powers and actions are limited by jesus.

 

[shad]

Jesus said the devil was the ruler of this world. What is your faith in if it isn't in the Word of God?

Mark,

You are so right, Jesus says it clearly that satan is prince of this world:

1.John 12:31
Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

2.John 14:30
I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,

3.John 16:11
and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

 

[Free]

Jesus said the devil was the ruler of this world. What is your faith in if it isn't in the Word of God?

Mark,

You are so right, Jesus says it clearly that satan is prince of this world:

1.John 12:31
Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

2.John 14:30
I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,

3.John 16:11
and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

No, he is not right. This point has been made many times that these statements were not only before Jesus' death and resurrection, they either explicitly or implicitly state that Satan's reign is about to end; that ending being Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus said the devil was the ruler of this world. What is your faith in if it isn't in the Word of God?

Mark,

You are so right, Jesus says it clearly that satan is prince of this world:

1.John 12:31
Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

2.John 14:30
I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,

3.John 16:11
and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Read the verses you quoted. Jesus is speaking of satan's defeat at the cross.
1. "NOW" is the time of judgment..."NOW" the prince of this world will be driven out.
2. The prince of this world is coming...Jesus was about to be tempted in the wilderness....satan has no hold (power) over Him. The kingdoms of the world were not even satan's to offer. He knew it and Jesus knew it. God has always ruled the kingdoms of men.
3. The prince of this world now stands condemned....again Jesus' work on the cross.

Satan was never the "ruler" over anything but the children of darkness. God has always ruled in the kingdoms of men.

17This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

25That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

32And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

Satan has only had power over his own children...he's the god, with a small "g" over the darkness.
People give satan way too much power. Even the saints have more power than satan does.

 

[shad]

Satan is in charge of this world, that's why there is chaos in the world. And it will get worse and worse until Jesus returns and takes over.

You guys should pray that God will open your eyes to see what is going on in this world and why.

take care.

 

[glorydaz]

Satan is in charge of this world, that's why there is chaos in the world. And it will get worse and worse until Jesus returns and takes over.

You guys should pray that God will open your eyes to see what is going on in this world and why.

take care.

If we were to walk by our experience instead of the Word of God, I'd agree with you.

However, the Word says Jesus reigns. Not only he does reign, but He MUST reign.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

However, I know that the tares grow along side the wheat until the judgment.
To expect there to be no evil while we grow together is not what the Word tells us.

The Word also says, we're dead to the power of sin. It may not feel like we're dead to sin, but we're to believe we are because the Word tells us we are. Do we believe our own personal experience or the Word of God?

There's no peace on the earth? Could it be because the peace Jesus gives is not the same as what the world expects?

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

We're to walk by faith not by sight....we don't see it with our eyes, but it doesn't mean it's not an accomplished fact.

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

 

[shad]

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

This is what happens when Jesus reigns:

Isaiah 65 New Heavens and a New Earth
17 "Behold, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.

19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.

20 "Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
he who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere youth;
he who fails to reach [a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.

21 They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the works of their hands.

23 They will not toil in vain
or bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the LORD,
they and their descendants with them.

24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
but dust will be the serpent's food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,"
says the LORD.

 

[Free]

This is what happens when Jesus reigns:

Again, the point has been made many times that that is what happens when Jesus returns. That he will yet return does not preclude his reigning now.

 

[jasoncran]

free, then where is satan now? is he in hell or on earth? revalation talks about him being kicked out of heaven and knowing that time is short, satan has always had a leash on him. even before the cross. remember job 1 the restrictions that the lord put on him.
i do think that the evil on the earth many comes from man, and though satan has a hand in pushing it, man must do it and also want to do it.

 

[Drew]

Nope. Jesus is King but he hasn't returned.

Mark, please read my posts carefully. I never, repeat never wrote anything that implies that Jesus has returned in person.

When he returns, all things in heaven and on earth will be subject to him. It's nonsense to say all things are subject to him now (if you understand what 'subject to' means) when we can see things on earth are going from bad to worse.

You are not thinking Biblically. It is true that when Jesus returns, His present kingship will become more immediate. But He is still King right now, and everything is under His authority. Is that me saying this? No. It is Jesus:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

Jesus means what He says. He has all authority. The fact that many do not recognize His authority does not mean He is not king, it means some of His subjects are in rebellion.

And Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world.

No! You have been corrected on this before, at least once. I have provided a detailed argument as to why the proper reading of this text is that Jesus is saying "My kingdom is not from this world". Do you think you get a free pass on arguments that undermine your position? You cannot, legitimately anyway, pretend that your interpretation of this passage has not been countered.

Over and above that other argument, here is another one. If I say "I am not of New York", this could be read as "I do not come from New York". But that is besides the point - my other argument stands, Jesus is not saying "my kingdom is not of this world" - the confusion arises from the ambiguity of the word "of" as translated in English. The original Greek solves the problem.

 

[Drew]

Stick to the facts Drew. It's one thing to say you don't know something or you don't understand something, but it's another thing to go around making stuff up.

MarkT. please point out one statement or assertion of mine that you would like to challenge based on the Bible. You talk about "making things up". Well which part of "all authority on earth has been given to me" did I make up?

 

[Drew]

No, he is not right. This point has been made many times that these statements were not only before Jesus' death and resurrection, they either explicitly or implicitly state that Satan's reign is about to end; that ending being Jesus' death and resurrection.

You are right.

There is not one statement that has been presented in this and other threads that BIblically places Satan in a position of rulership this side of the cross. The real question is: Why do posters believe in a proposition that has no Biblical support (namely that Satan is presently ruler of the world)?

We have seen a number of patently false arguments about this. One of these was essentially "Well, Satan was lord before the cross, and since truth doesn't change, he must still be lord".

In all candor, such an argument is so obviously flawed, one almost does not know what to say.

But I will try:

"In 1960, JFK was President. That is a true statement. Well, truth does not change. Therefore JFK is still President"

I hope the point is made....

 

[Drew]

free, then where is satan now? is he in hell or on earth?

I am not sure how this is relevant. Where is George W. Bush right now? On earth, in the United States, just as he was 2 years ago.

Two years ago, he was president. Now he is not. So "where he is" is not really relevant to the fact that he was President, but is no longer President.

 

[jasoncran]

he can still influence then. just like osama bid laden may not be alive but can inspire the jihadist to attack, though satan certainly is much more able to do that. who does the blinding then. look at parables, and all birds represent demonic spirits.

 

[Drew]

he can still influence then.

Absolutely. Just because Satan is no longer ruler of the world does not mean that he is no longer a force in the world.

 

[jasoncran]

that;s what i meant that he is allowed to do control men and influence them to do evil and that governments can be controlled by satan via proxy, ie principalites. but that is another sub topic of this.

 

[MarkT]

Jesus said the devil was the ruler of this world. What is your faith in if it isn't in the Word of God?

When did Jesus say the devil was the ruler of this world?
Was it before this?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

And what does this have to do with what we are talking about? Jesus cast out Satan on several occasions. It's not a question of whether Jesus has the authority to cast out Satan. Of course he does. And he gave us his Spirit so that we can cast out Satan in his name. So what? Does that imply Satan isn't the ruler of this world? Of course not. Just the opposite. Why did he give us the authority to cast out Satan if Satan isn't in the world? And what makes you think Satan can't enter people. Basically, you're denying every teaching Jesus gave us; even the promise of the Spirit - 'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you to all truth'. John 16:13

My faith is in Jesus and His work on the cross who is....

He died for the forgiveness of sin. What are you talking about?

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

'when he raised him from the dead and made him sit at his right hand in the heavenly places. Eph. 1:20 So now he sits at the right hand of the Father.

When Jesus returns he will rule from Zion.

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

What does 'over all the power of the enemy' mean if the enemy has no power?

Satan merely rules over the darkness of this world...and then only under the parameters the Lord allows.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Some are saying Jesus already returned. Which means what? Did the resurrection already happen? Did the 1000 year reign end in 1070? Has the devil been destroyed? And you say Satan rules over the darkness of this world. So you're admitting he is the ruler of this world. Otherwise how can the world be dark?

Heb. 2:14 'through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil.' Has the devil been destroyed? Obviously not since you say he rules over the darkness of this world.

 

[MarkT]

Was Jesus refering to God when he said, 'Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; John 12:31 RSV and, 'I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me; John 14:30 RSV No. Of course not. Jesus was refering to Satan the devil.

No, you're right, Jesus wasn't refering to God. He was speaking of Satan's upcoming defeat at the cross when his head would be crushed.
When Jesus said the ruler of this world is coming, He was refering to the temptation and the wounding of His heel at the cross.
The work of the cross provides the answer for who rules.

Now you're making stuff up. Didn't Jesus say the ruler of this world is coming? Why does he call him the ruler of this world? Why did he say he is coming? Did this world end when Jesus died on the cross? No. This world of sin and death didn't end. However, Jesus did say the ruler of this world shall be cast out. Now the judgment of this world is the word Jesus spoke when he said my word will be your judge - 'He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day' John 12:48. How is Satan cast out? By the word of the kingdom in those who believe. By the Spirit of God in those who are born of the Spirit who leads us to all truth. And those who receive the Spirit do cast out Satan.

 

[MarkT]

Read the verses you quoted. Jesus is speaking of satan's defeat at the cross.
1. "NOW" is the time of judgment..."NOW" the prince of this world will be driven out.
2. The prince of this world is coming...Jesus was about to be tempted in the wilderness....satan has no hold (power) over Him. The kingdoms of the world were not even satan's to offer. He knew it and Jesus knew it. God has always ruled the kingdoms of men.
3. The prince of this world now stands condemned....again Jesus' work on the cross.

Satan was never the "ruler" over anything but the children of darkness. God has always ruled in the kingdoms of men.

This was just before the Passover. Where do you get, 'Jesus was about to be tempted in the wilderness'?

Again, you say the devil was a liar - he was never the ruler over anything - but Jesus called him the ruler of this world - don't you believe anything Jesus said?

 

[MarkT]

Nope. Jesus is King but he hasn't returned.

Mark, please read my posts carefully. I never, repeat never wrote anything that implies that Jesus has returned in person.

Well what are you saying then? What about the destruction of the temple? Didn't you say he returned in 70 AD?

When he returns, all things in heaven and on earth will be subject to him. It's nonsense to say all things are subject to him now (if you understand what 'subject to' means) when we can see things on earth are going from bad to worse.

You are not thinking Biblically. It is true that when Jesus returns, His present kingship will become more immediate. But He is still King right now, and everything is under His authority. Is that me saying this? No. It is Jesus:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

Jesus means what He says. He has all authority. The fact that many do not recognize His authority does not mean He is not king, it means some of His subjects are in rebellion.

It is you saying it. For instance, 'his present kingship will become more immediate' - what does that mean? Remember, according to the parable, the nobleman goes away to receive his kingship. It means he has the right to rule but he hasn't returned. Now when you see 'all authority', in the light of Christ, what do you think Jesus is saying? The authority to forgive sin? The authority to judge? The authority to give life? What does this have to do with Satan being the ruler of this world?

And Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world.

No! You have been corrected on this before, at least once. I have provided a detailed argument as to why the proper reading of this text is that Jesus is saying "My kingdom is not from this world". Do you think you get a free pass on arguments that undermine your position? You cannot, legitimately anyway, pretend that your interpretation of this passage has not been countered.

Over and above that other argument, here is another one. If I say "I am not of New York", this could be read as "I do not come from New York". But that is besides the point - my other argument stands, Jesus is not saying "my kingdom is not of this world" - the confusion arises from the ambiguity of the word "of" as translated in English. The original Greek solves the problem.

Of course he is saying the kingdom is not of this world. The kingdom of heaven isn't something you can see. In your imagining you think you've countered something but you haven't. Changing words will not help you. It's the oldest trick in the book. Is not 'of' can be read is not 'taken from' or is not 'a part of', so even replacing 'of' with 'from' doesn't change the meaning of his words.