Bible Study JESUS MAKES US FREE - FROM WHAT?

[GodsGrace]

And, I might add, ultimate hell.

Whatever exactly that may be, we'd all like to avoid that, I hope.

I think it's enough to say that hell is where God is absent.

 

[theWind]

I think it's enough to say that hell is where God is absent.

That's enough for me.

From time to time, God takes away a measure of His protection/presence from me, for a short time, just as part of my learning and development and it is excruciating. It is how life feels for those without any faith at all and it is unbearable for those of us who have come to know Him and His daily presence.

The concept of an existence without Him at all, some place where He is absent, is beyond my comprehension. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. Even the wicked bask in His sunlight and rain and all manner of goodness and mercy in this world every day. The place of punishment for them will be unlike anything we can imagine - regardless of whether it is eternal or finite.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's enough for me.

From time to time, God takes away a measure of His protection/presence from me, for a short time, just as part of my learning and development and it is excruciating. It is how life feels for those without any faith at all and it is unbearable for those of us who have come to know Him and His daily presence.

The concept of an existence without Him at all, some place where He is absent, is beyond my comprehension. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. Even the wicked bask in His sunlight and rain and all manner of goodness and mercy in this world every day. The place of punishment for them will be unlike anything we can imagine - regardless of whether it is eternal or finite.

Agreed.
Just try to imagine this world with no good in it and only evil.
It's God that brings the good here. Without His presence to stop the evil, it would already be hell here.

 

[GodsGrace]

In the great Intercessory Prayer of John 17, Jesus prays for His disciples: “Sanctify them in the truth: Thy word is truth” (John 8:17).

In the answer to the question of Thomas in John 14, He declares, “I am the way, the truth, and the life” (John 8:6).
[In John 14, Thomas asked Jesus how they could follow Him if they do not know the way]

It is this thought that is present in the connection between continuance in His word and knowledge of the truth here.

These Jews professed to know the truth, and to be the official expounders of it. They had yet to learn that truth was not only a system, but also a power; not only something to be written or spoken, but also something to be felt and lived. If they abide in His word they will indeed be His disciples; living the life of truth, they will gain perception of truth. “Being true,” they will “in love grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ” (Ephesians 4:15).

source: Ellicott's Commentary, Biblehub


Jesus did not say He knew the truth, or was speaking the truth.
He said HE IS THE TRUTH.
In Him is all spiritual truth, and it cannot be separated from the person of Jesus.

 

[JLB]

John tells us that Jesus will make us free.
Free from what?
Or to what?


John 8:31-44

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.
38“I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”
39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.
40“But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
41“You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
43“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
44“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Free from the bondage of sin.

The truth that through Christ, we do not have to be slaves of sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Free from the bondage of sin.

The truth that through Christ, we do not have to be slaves of sin.

Amen.
If the Son makes us free, we are free indeed.

 

[Tenchi]

As I understand it, those in Christ are freed from the penalty and power of Sin, separated, by their union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection, from the "old man" from whom all their sin ultimately emanates and are raised into new, spiritual life (Romans 6:1-11; 2 Corinthians 5:17). As a result, the believer is also free from the condemnation that sin produces (Romans 8:1). Before God, they stand clothed in the perfect righteousness of Christ, fully redeemed, sanctified and justified in him (1 Corinthians 1:30), and as such liberated from the condemnation of the Accuser, the devil (1 John 2:1-2), from the Law (Romans 5:16-21), and from their own self-condemnation (Philippians 3:12-14). Finally, the person in Christ is freed from the letter of the Law, from the impossible effort of self-justification by perfect obedience to the Law (2 Corinthians 3:6-11; Romans 7:5-6; Galatians 2:16).

Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life (John 14:6) and if he makes you free, you shall be free, indeed!

 

[JLB]

As I understand it, those in Christ are freed from the penalty and power of Sin, separated, by their union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection, from the "old man" from whom all their sin ultimately emanates and are raised into new, spiritual life

Those in Christ, who do not walk according to the flesh, are free from the bondage, the enslaving power, of sin.

Those who are in Christ, and walk according to the flesh, have chosen to submit theirselves to the bondage and slavery of sin, and will in the end be condemned to eternal damnation if the don't repent.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1



JLB

 

[Tenchi]

Those in Christ, who do not walk according to the flesh, are free from the bondage, the enslaving power, of sin.

Those who are in Christ, and walk according to the flesh, have chosen to submit theirselves to the bondage and slavery of sin, and will in the end be condemned to eternal damnation if the don't repent.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

*Sigh* Ride that hobby-horse, brother! Ride it hard!

How sad it is that you shift the burden of walking with God onto the weakest of the two in the relationship. Whether or not the believer lives by faith in the truth of who they are in Christ, their identity in him remains.

 

[JLB]

*Sigh* Ride that hobby-horse, brother! Ride it hard!

How sad it is that you shift the burden of walking with God onto the weakest of the two in the relationship. Whether or not the believer lives by faith in the truth of who they are in Christ, their identity in him remains.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17





JLB

 

[Tenchi]

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Philippians 4:13 (NASB)
13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 (NASB)
3 But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil one.

Romans 8:13 (NASB)
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

1 Peter 5:10 (NASB)
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

Jude 1:24-25 (NASB)
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

As I understand it, those in Christ are freed from the penalty and power of Sin, separated, by their union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection, from the "old man" from whom all their sin ultimately emanates and are raised into new, spiritual life (Romans 6:1-11; 2 Corinthians 5:17). As a result, the believer is also free from the condemnation that sin produces (Romans 8:1). Before God, they stand clothed in the perfect righteousness of Christ, fully redeemed, sanctified and justified in him (1 Corinthians 1:30), and as such liberated from the condemnation of the Accuser, the devil (1 John 2:1-2), from the Law (Romans 5:16-21), and from their own self-condemnation (Philippians 3:12-14). Finally, the person in Christ is freed from the letter of the Law, from the impossible effort of self-justification by perfect obedience to the Law (2 Corinthians 3:6-11; Romans 7:5-6; Galatians 2:16).

Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life (John 14:6) and if he makes you free, you shall be free, indeed!

Interesting that you mentioned condemnation.
In an earlier post on this thread, I mentioned that we are also freed from the feelings of guilt.
(Romans 8:1, as you posted).

Two questions:
1. But aren't we supposed to feel some guilt? Isn't this how the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin?
And what does it mean if we do feel guilty at times even after the sin is confessed? This has happened to me.
I KNOW I'm forgiven, but the fact that the sin occurred is very bothersome. It took me years to understand that this was a real sin - I didn't think it was.

2. You stated that we are justified AND SANCTIFIED in Him.
Are you of the belief that we are already positionally sanctified in Christ, or do you believe we are to "work" for our sanctification. By work, I mean doing the good deeds that we Christians are asked to do by Jesus' teachings.

 

[GodsGrace]

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Philippians 4:13 (NASB)
13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 (NASB)
3 But the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil one.

Romans 8:13 (NASB)
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

1 Peter 5:10 (NASB)
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

Jude 1:24-25 (NASB)
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Was the above for someone in particular?
I think Jude 1:24 goes very well with the OP.
Jesus is able to keep us from stumbling...He frees us from stumbling.

 

[Tenchi]

Two questions:
1. But aren't we supposed to feel some guilt? Isn't this how the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin?
And what does it mean if we do feel guilty at times even after the sin is confessed? This has happened to me.
I KNOW I'm forgiven, but the fact that the sin occurred is very bothersome. It took me years to understand that this was a real sin - I didn't think it was.

Yes, God's given us a conscience that the Spirit will...press in his conviction of us. Of course, the conviction of the Spirit is not merely making us feel guilty about contravening God's Moral Law; there's more to his conviction of us than this. In any case, when Paul wrote that there is no condemnation for the believer, he didn't mean the believer ought not to feel guilty for wrongdoing, but that the believer was, by Christ, freed from the wrathful censure and judgement of God that their sin had earned. As an "in Christ" person, the born-again believer is clothed in the perfect righteousness of Christ and thus accepted by God (Romans 13:14; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Ephesians 1:6; 1 Corinthians 1:30), and may, therefore, "come boldly unto the throne of grace," and in the Day of Judgment stand confident before God knowing they are a "joint-heir with Christ." (Hebrews 4:16; 1 John 4:17; Romans 8:17).

A feeling of shame that lingers after repentance and confession of sin is not of God (1 John 1:9). If it's not of Him, from where is it originating? There're only two other possibilities: Self and/or the devil. In either case, the way to be rid of unnecessary shame is to consciously, explicitly give the Spirit control of my heart and mind. When he's in control of me, he fills me with who he is, which naturally and inevitably eradicates lingering feelings of shame that Self and the devil encourage in me.

Paul also has some very good advice about the past:

Philippians 3:13-14 (NASB)
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

2. You stated that we are justified AND SANCTIFIED in Him.
Are you of the belief that we are already positionally sanctified in Christ, or do you believe we are to "work" for our sanctification. By work, I mean doing the good deeds that we Christians are asked to do by Jesus' teachings.

I believe, as the Bible clearly indicates, that every born-again child of God is fully-sanctified positionally in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2 (NASB)
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Hebrews 2:10-11 (NASB)
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.
11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 10:10-14 (NASB)
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

What is true of the believer positionally in Christ is not true in their daily condition, however. A big part of spiritual maturity, of growing in Christ, is diminishing the gap between one's spiritual position in him and one's daily, mundane condition. And so, in Scripture one can read:

2 Timothy 2:19-22 (NASB)
19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."
20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
22 Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

What need would there be for Paul to urge Timothy to sanctify himself, "fleeing youthful lusts" and "abstaining from wickedness," and making himself a "vessel unto honor, sanctified, useful to the Master" if, as a born-again man, Timothy was already perfectly holy in his actual living as a natural consequence of being born-again? Why would Paul, James and Peter urge so many moral injunctions upon the members of the Early Church if, merely by being born-again, they were entirely free of sin in their practical condition? One has only to read Paul's first letter to the believers at Corinth to see how erroneous is the notion of the "second birth" producing perfect, practical sanctification.

Anyway, I'm not saying these things in argument against anything you've written, but just to clarify what I believe about the matter of sanctification and why.

The Christian person works out what God has first worked into them by the Holy Spirit.

Philippians 2:12-13 (NASB)
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

How is the "working out" accomplished? By vigorous and disciplined self-effort, as so many Christians suppose? That's not what Paul wrote here. The believer doesn't produce godliness by dint of his/her labor, but merely reflects in their living what God has done in them. Again, they work out what God has worked into them. This was what I was getting at in giving the list of verses I did in my last post in this thread. All of those verses locate the responsibility for my spiritual life and growth, not in myself, but in God, in Christ, the Author and Finisher (or completer) of my faith (Hebrews 21:2; Philippians 4:13).

My "job" as a child of God is to yield myself to Him (Romans 6:13-22), to submit to Him (James 4:7), to humble myself under His mighty hand (1 Peter 5:6), to present myself to Him as a "living sacrifice" (Romans 12:1). This the Great Battle of the Christian life, I believe. Christians think the battle is to overcome sin, to overcome themselves, to overcome the devil, but the longer I walk with God, the clearer it is to me that victory in these areas is not achieved by strenuous striving on my part but by simply remaining always under the Holy Spirit's control. As I do so, he goes to work on me, transforming my desires, my thinking and my conduct so that I am "conformed to the image of Christ" (Romans 8:29), producing in me the "Fruit" of who he is (Galatians 5:22-23). As a consequence of this work of the Spirit, I naturally and easily reflect in my living the life of Christ.

I tried for decades the old, "boot-strap theology" of self-reformation (with lip-service, of course, to God doing the changing) and found, at best, minor and inconsistent success. Oh, I could, for short periods, seem to achieve a godly result in my life by forcing myself to "do the right thing," by "re-committing" myself to God, but my power source was always, at bottom, myself, which was revealed by the strain and exhaustion of "living for God" and only ever an experience of my ability to be a holy person rather than of the Spirit's inexhaustible and astonishing power to change me. Like begets like, after all; I could only beget more of me; only the Spirit of God can beget godliness in me.

 

[Deidr]

John tells us that Jesus will make us free.
Free from what?
Or to what?


John 8:31-44

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.
38“I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”
39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.
40“But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
41“You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
43“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
44“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Hi, verse 34 is the answer. One is free from being a slave to sin.
Verse 44 is the answer to the second part.
God gives a new nature.
Nature in my thoughts is by means of the natural route we must go having His seed planted in us.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, verse 34 is the answer. One is free from being a slave to sin.
Verse 44 is the answer to the second part.
God gives a new nature.
Nature in my thoughts is by means of the natural route we must go having His seed planted in us.

Good answer...
Verse 44 is speaking to the nature of satan, I believe.
I guess you mean that we no longer follow satan but God and this is our new nature.

We do not live by the flesh, but by the spirit.
So many verses about this.
How about
Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

[Highway54]

John tells us that Jesus will make us free.
Free from what?
Or to what?


John 8:31-44

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.
38“I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”
39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.
40“But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
41“You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
43“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
44“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Free from a lot of things, the law for one thing as you mentioned. Sin like you mentioned as well. One of the things he frees us from is false religion as well. Things like fearing or apeasing the dead, or demonic influence like through voodoo. Truly he frees us from the wiles of this world.

 

[Deidr]

Good answer...
Verse 44 is speaking to the nature of satan, I believe.
I guess you mean that we no longer follow satan but God and this is our new nature.

We do not live by the flesh, but by the spirit.
So many verses about this.
How about
Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Hi, What I was thinking is....If in Adam our bent is toward the flesh, then this was bondage there was no other way but to grow. But with the new seed the word of God planted in us we no longer have to be bent or a slave to sin. We have another option that frees us. So yes I totally agree that we are to be changed by renewal of the mind.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Freed by Jesus from…

Sin Satan self death and the world.

 

[GodsGrace]

Free from a lot of things, the law for one thing as you mentioned. Sin like you mentioned as well. One of the things he frees us from is false religion as well. Things like fearing or apeasing the dead, or demonic influence like through voodoo. Truly he frees us from the wiles of this world.

Agreed.

I just want to clarify that Jesus did free us from THE LAW....
There were different types of law spoken of in the OT.
Civil Law
Ceremonial Law
Moral Law

Just want to make sure that we understand that the Moral Law will never be abolished...
but the other two were; for instance the ceremonial law included the animal sacrifices in the OT.
Jesus abolished that law forever and any other part of the ceremonial law. It's no longer necessary.