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Bible Study JESUS MAKES US FREE - FROM WHAT?

Deidr said:
Hi, What I was thinking is....If in Adam our bent is toward the flesh, then this was bondage there was no other way but to grow. But with the new seed the word of God planted in us we no longer have to be bent or a slave to sin. We have another option that frees us. So yes I totally agree that we are to be changed by renewal of the mind.
Click to expand...
Right.
Many have replied that we are freed from slavery to sin (satan).
I do agree that this would have to be the most important freedom we experience once we know God.
 
wondering said:
Agreed.

I just want to clarify that Jesus did free us from THE LAW....
There were different types of law spoken of in the OT.
Civil Law
Ceremonial Law
Moral Law

Just want to make sure that we understand that the Moral Law will never be abolished...
but the other two were; for instance the ceremonial law included the animal sacrifices in the OT.
Jesus abolished that law forever and any other part of the ceremonial law. It's no longer necessary.
Click to expand...
Where is "moral law" mentioned in the Bible? Paul wrote that we are dead to the law, not to some of it.

Romans 7:4-6, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law [not just some of it!] through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, [all of it!] because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.

All three (artificial) divisions -- Civil Law, Ceremonial Law, and Moral Law -- have been abolished.
 
wondering said:
Agreed.

I just want to clarify that Jesus did free us from THE LAW....
There were different types of law spoken of in the OT.
Civil Law
Ceremonial Law
Moral Law

Just want to make sure that we understand that the Moral Law will never be abolished...
but the other two were; for instance the ceremonial law included the animal sacrifices in the OT.
Jesus abolished that law forever and any other part of the ceremonial law. It's no longer necessary.
Click to expand...
wondering said:
I just want to clarify that Jesus did free us from THE LAW....
Click to expand...
We fully agree maam, but Christians have laws as well. Take for example Heb 10:24,25 do you not believe this is a law that must be observed? Notice as well 1 Jn 5:3 which was given to us Christians after Jesus' death and the fulfilling of the law covenant. Jesus stated that his followers would do the will of his Father for salvation Mat 7:21, even Adam and Eve had requirements for everlasting life.
 
Highway54 said:
We fully agree maam, but Christians have laws as well. Take for example Heb 10:24,25 do you not believe this is a law that must be observed? Notice as well 1 Jn 5:3 which was given to us Christians after Jesus' death and the fulfilling of the law covenant. Jesus stated that his followers would do the will of his Father for salvation Mat 7:21, even Adam and Eve had requirements for everlasting life.
Click to expand...
Taking three out-of-context verses from three separate "books" is a very poor way to establish doctrine. Read the entire chapter of Romans 7 to understand our freedom from the law.
 
jaybo said:
Taking three out-of-context verses from three separate "books" is a very poor way to establish doctrine. Read the entire chapter of Romans 7 to understand our freedom from the law.
Click to expand...
Out of context? Don't do them then Jaybo, but I will sir.
 
Deidr said:
How is mankind chained?
Click to expand...
HI Deidr,
TheSeriousOne has been banned from this site.
I would venture to say that man was chained by the sin nature since this is what a couple of Witnesses I know believe.
And they would be right.
 
jaybo said:
Where is "moral law" mentioned in the Bible? Paul wrote that we are dead to the law, not to some of it.
Click to expand...

Yes dead to all the law of Moses.

That is the context.

Do you understand what the law was added to?



JLB
 
jaybo said:
Where is "moral law" mentioned in the Bible? Paul wrote that we are dead to the law, not to some of it.
Click to expand...

J, Paul doesn't make the rules.
God makes the rules.

Exodus 31:18
And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
God Himself wrote the 10 commandments.
They are commandments of God,
NOT commandments or rules set by Moses.
The Laws were of Moses,
The Commandments, or Moral Law, are of God and will never be abolished.

Deuteronomy 10:4
And he wrote on the tablets, in the same writing as before, the Ten Commandments that the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me.
Notice what John wrote:
1 John 2:3-6
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
Notice that it states that whoever says they know God will keep HIS COMMANDMENTS.
If we do not keep God's commandments, John states that we are a liar.

Jesus mentioned the 10 commandments many times in His preaching.
The 10 Commandments were NOT abolished, but made even more stringent.
See Matthew 5.
Our RIGHTEOUSNESS had to surpass that of the Pharisees, or we will not see heaven.

Matthew 5:20
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.



jaybo said:
Romans 7:4-6, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law [not just some of it!] through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, [all of it!] because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.

All three (artificial) divisions -- Civil Law, Ceremonial Law, and Moral Law -- have been abolished.
Click to expand...
So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone...

If we've been RELEASED FROM THE LAW, which you put in caps,
and you believe THE LAW means the 10 commandments,
then it's now OK to do whatever we wish!

No more moral law!

As Per Paul.
 
wondering said:
J, Paul doesn't make the rules.
God makes the rules.

Exodus 31:18
And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
God Himself wrote the 10 commandments.
They are commandments of God,
NOT commandments or rules set by Moses.
The Laws were of Moses,
The Commandments, or Moral Law, are of God and will never be abolished.

Deuteronomy 10:4
And he wrote on the tablets, in the same writing as before, the Ten Commandments that the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me.
Notice what John wrote:
1 John 2:3-6
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
Notice that it states that whoever says they know God will keep HIS COMMANDMENTS.
If we do not keep God's commandments, John states that we are a liar.

Jesus mentioned the 10 commandments many times in His preaching.
The 10 Commandments were NOT abolished, but made even more stringent.
See Matthew 5.
Our RIGHTEOUSNESS had to surpass that of the Pharisees, or we will not see heaven.

Matthew 5:20
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.




So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone...

If we've been RELEASED FROM THE LAW, which you put in caps,
and you believe THE LAW means the 10 commandments,
then it's now OK to do whatever we wish!

No more moral law!

As Per Paul.
Click to expand...
Why are you trying to twist what I believe? That kind of behavior is very unlike you.

Why would you even write garbage like this..?

"So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"

That is personal slander, unbecoming anyone who claims to be a Christian!!! Is this what you think loving your neighbor as yourself means? Or is that doing to others what you want them to do to you?

If you are under the law you are not a Christian. That is the truth. As I have shown, Paul explained it perfectly in Romans 7.

Read this carefully: "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code." Romans 7:4-6

Why you disagree with that? It is both plain and obvious!

Finally, I forgive you for writing this obscene garbage about me ...

"you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"
 
jaybo said:
Why are you trying to twist what I believe? That kind of behavior is very unlike you.

Why would you even write garbage like this..?

"So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"

That is personal slander, unbecoming anyone who claims to be a Christian!!! Is this what you think loving your neighbor as yourself means? Or is that doing to others what you want them to do to you?

If you are under the law you are not a Christian. That is the truth. As I have shown, Paul explained it perfectly in Romans 7.

Read this carefully: "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code." Romans 7:4-6

Why you disagree with that? It is both plain and obvious!

Finally, I forgive you for writing this obscene garbage about me ...

"you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"
Click to expand...
Well, Jaybo,
What I said is what you write.

What I said is what you teach on this forum.

I supplied scripture for you...
and, BTW, I didn't say YOU do that stuff,

I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment
BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.

No need for you to forgive me.
Read my post again.

I've asked you many times what you mean by THE LAW.

I do believe you stated that it means ANY law ANY commandment.

You stated that there is no Moral Law taught in the OT.
Do I really have to sit here and make a list of Moral Laws?

Do you think they were made up by MAN
or by GOD?

If they were made up by GOD, don't you think we should OBEY THEM?
 
jaybo said:
Why are you trying to twist what I believe? That kind of behavior is very unlike you.

Why would you even write garbage like this..?

"So, IOW, you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"

That is personal slander, unbecoming anyone who claims to be a Christian!!! Is this what you think loving your neighbor as yourself means? Or is that doing to others what you want them to do to you?

If you are under the law you are not a Christian. That is the truth. As I have shown, Paul explained it perfectly in Romans 7.

Read this carefully: "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code." Romans 7:4-6

Why you disagree with that? It is both plain and obvious!

Finally, I forgive you for writing this obscene garbage about me ...

"you're saying that it's OK to worship other gods,
Take the name of God in vain,
Dishonor our parents,
Steal,
Kill,
Covet our neighbor's goods,
Falsely testify against someone"
Click to expand...
Three questions: (re what I highlighted in blue)

1. What is THE LAW?

2. What fruit are we required to bear?

3. What are we dead to that held us captive?

3.
 
Highway54 said:
We fully agree maam, but Christians have laws as well. Take for example Heb 10:24,25 do you not believe this is a law that must be observed? Notice as well 1 Jn 5:3 which was given to us Christians after Jesus' death and the fulfilling of the law covenant. Jesus stated that his followers would do the will of his Father for salvation Mat 7:21, even Adam and Eve had requirements for everlasting life.
Click to expand...
Amen.
I agree and I can't imagine what I posted to make you think otherwise.
 
wondering said:
Well, Jaybo,
What I said is what you write.

What I said is what you teach on this forum.

I supplied scripture for you...
and, BTW, I didn't say YOU do that stuff,

I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment
BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.

No need for you to forgive me.
Read my post again.

I've asked you many times what you mean by THE LAW.

I do believe you stated that it means ANY law ANY commandment.

You stated that there is no Moral Law taught in the OT.
Do I really have to sit here and make a list of Moral Laws?

Do you think they were made up by MAN
or by GOD?

If they were made up by GOD, don't you think we should OBEY THEM?
Click to expand...
You wrote "I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment." This is slanderous!!! Why are you deliberately twisting what I have written? Really, I thought that you were a better person than this, but I guess I was wrong.

I forgive you for your personal attack and slander. I will not engage in any more conversation on this subject until you repent.
 
jaybo said:
You wrote "I said that ACCORDING TO YOU, it seems as though, yes, we can break every commandment." This is slanderous!!! Why are you deliberately twisting what I have written? Really, I thought that you were a better person than this, but I guess I was wrong.

I forgive you for your personal attack and slander. I will not engage in any more conversation on this subject until you repent.
Click to expand...
I repented 40 years ago.
What do you mean by repent?
You want an apology?
 
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