Bible Study JESUS OUR EXAMPLE and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Douglas,

It seems you may not have read post # 312 linked which really covers a lot of your content in this post but happy to go thorugh it again with you so there is no misunderstanding as to my position in the scriptures.

You can not have Christ and the Law to be saved, they are in conflict with each other.

Absolutely, no one here is saying otherwise. We are ONLY SAVED by GRACE through FAITH and NOT of OURSELVES it is a GIFT of GOD and NOT of WORKS lest any man should BOAST (Eph 2:8). However we are not saved to continue in SIN but God's power of the Gospel saves us from SIN.
GRACE is for obedience to the Faith (Romans 1:5; 6:1-2) and FAITH establsihes God's LAW through LOVE in those who BELIEVE God's WORD (Romans 3:31; 13:8-10; Hebrews 8:10-12).

The LAW CONDEMNS, GRACE SAVES, They are completely opposite of each other.

Absolutley, the one leads to the other. If you have NO LAW then you have NO KNOWLEDGE of SIN (Romans 3:19-20) If you have no KNOWLEDGE of SIN you do not KNOW that you are a SINNER. If you do not KNOW that you are a SINNER then you are no NEED of a Savior to save you from the WAGES of SIN (Romans 6:23). If you have NO Saviour then you have NO SALVATION. If you have NO SALVATION then you are LOST because you are still IN YOUR SINS.

God's LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is it shows us who we are without Jesus. IT leads us to Jesus that we can be saved by GRACE. NO LAW = NO GRACE.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

No man can keep God's law, for the Law does not justify, save, make us righteous, can not make us perfect, can not redeem us. All that the law can do is condemn us...which was it's purpose. (Rom. 7:7-14)

Absoultely, all we can do without Jesus is SIN. But we have good news. We have a Saviour that can FREE us from the power of SIN

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the POWER OF GOD TO SALVATION <from SIN> to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

John 8
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
32, And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33, They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
34, Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
35, And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

All the arguments you make about the law are the same arguments that the Jews used against Paul's preaching of Grace (Rom. 10:1-4) (Acts 15:1-31).

Well that is not true Douglas. I am not teaching and proclaiming that we are saved by the LAW of God. Only showing from God's WORD the pupose of God's LAW to lead is to Christ who frees us in LOVE to LOVE another by his GRACE through FAITH alone. SIN however will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM as SIN is NOT the FRUIT of FAITH.

The Epistle to the Hebrews is called Hebrews because it was written to the Jewish Christians that excepted Christ as Savior, but kept going back to the Law to be saved.

We may have to agree to disagree here. That is like saying that the book of Hebrews is not for Christians when God's Word says;

2 Timothy 3
16, ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Matt 4
4, But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

We must BELIEVE AND FOLLOW ALL the WORD of GOD. UNBELIEVERS have no part in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

But that was like hanging Christ on the Cross to an open shame, every time they sinned by going back to the law of commandments, when by now, they should have been able to teach others about Grace (Heb. 5:11-14; 6:1-9).

The scriptures you reference here are in relation to somone that has known God and has dead works (no fruit) and turns back to a life of SIN.

Hebrews 6
4, For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
8, But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

links to...

Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments. ALL those who CONTINUE in UNREPTANTANT SIN will NOT ENTER into God's KINGDOM. Hope this helps.

........................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is the flaw in your argument. You are trying to prove a positive with an argument from silence.

Indeed because there is no scriptures in God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Hello Douglas,

Nice to see you again and thanks for sharing your thoughts. maybe some simple questions may help with the conversation here.

1. What does it mean in your view to BELIEVE in Jesus and to LOVE as he first LOVED us?
2. If God asks us to do something and we do not do it are we BELIEVING God or NOT BELIEVING God?
3. What is the CONTEXT of 1 John 3:23-24 talking about (Focus on 1 John 3:3-15)?



Indded we should study to show ourselves approved correctly dividing the word of truth. To be "UNDER the LAW" mean to be guilty before God of breaking it.

Romans 3
19, Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Many teach a false Gospel that being saved by GRACE through FAITH is a liscence to SIN and we are saved IN SIN and not FROM sin. Yet God's Word teaches that there is a specific purpose to GRACE and FAITH.

Romans 1
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

Romans 6
1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. 2, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 3
31, Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Yes indeed we should study the scriptures.



Actually this is correct and not correct. The 4th Commandment is God's LAW written and spoken by God himself to his people and is one of the 10 Commandments. It is different to the Mosaic book of the COVANANT and had a different purpose to the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN.

Are you familiar with what makes up the OLD Covenant and what the purposes of God's LAW (10 Commandments) were and the Mosaic book of the COVENANT? Do you know why God commanded that the 10 Commandments and the Mosaic book of the law were to be separated in the Ark of the COVENANT? This might also help the discussion of the topic here if your interested.

God's 4th Commandments has it's origin in the creation week and was part of a FINSIHED work BEFORE SIN entered into the world. It was made for mankind and Jesus is the LORD of the Sabbath which according to scripture in the "LORDS DAY" (Gen 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28; Matt 12:8).

GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT

Origin....

Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
3, And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4th Commandment of the 10 that gives a KNOWLEDGE OF SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Ps 119:172)

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY , to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day; He knew his professed people would forget it)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God : in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY : wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT

Breaking God's 4th Commandment is SIN just like breaking ANY of the 10 Commandments. SIN will keep ALL who practice it out of God's KINGDOM.

What does Jesus say?....

Mark 2
27, And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was made for WHO? The Sabbath was made for MAN. So here we have the God of creation telling us why the 7th Day was made a Holy day. It was made for MANKIND

Matthew 12
8, For the Son of man IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

The SABBATH DAY = the "LORDS DAY"

The Sabbath is a day of REST and WORSHIP to honor the God of creation (Jesus)

Isaiah 58
13, If you turn away your foot from the sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words:
14, Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.

Indeed we should BELIEVE the WORD of GOD and FOLLOW it. SIN is breaking God's COMMANDMENTS and those who CONTINUE in KNOWN SIN will NOT enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

..................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hi Love, I think the Scripture I gave you were sufficient...Go in peace.
In His Eternal Peace and Grace
Douglas Summers

 

[Papa Zoom]

Indeed because there is no scriptures in God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

There are no scriptures that say the God Head is a "Trinity" either. Nor did Jesus EVER mention homosexuality.

You can't make an argument from silence. All the other commandments are mentioned but not the Sabbath. Could it be because it's not of requirement for Christians?

'Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- ' Colossians 2:16

This is one of the only mentions of the Sabbath in the NT and it says NO ONE is to judge in respect to a Sabbath. So why are you judging when it's clear that the Bible teaches not to do such?

The new Testament doesn't say anything about not stoning adulterers either does it?

Acts 15:9: “It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.” Vs.21 “For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath (Acts 15:24-25) Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law'-- to whom we gave no such commandment!”

So show us where in the NT there is one teaching by the Apostles or Jesus that the Sabbath is for always and all times. That is what you must show.

You're argument is that since the NT says nothing about it, then it's still in play. Well then, everything commanded in the OT, if not mentioned in the NT is still in effect.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi JLB,

Did you have anything new to add to the discussion?

That goes without saying. However those who teach the Sabbath as commandment today, seem to overlook such things.
Gentiles who live outside of the nation of Israel, are certainly not under the law. So the only thing we as Gentiles can do is defer to the New Testament, to discover what Jesus and the Apostles instructed us to do about observing the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant.

Already answered with scriopture a long time ago see post # 59 linked. You have yet to respond to this post and the scriptures in them that disagree with you.

I have asked this brother to provide us with New Testament scriptures that instruct us how to observe the Sabbath, as well as giving us some practical examples from his own life, how he himself observes the Sabbath. So far he refuses to do so. If there was commandment from the Lord and the Apostles with specific instructions for the Church, as to how to observe the Sabbath then I would be at the front of the line, teaching and doing those very things.

Well that is not true please see posts # 215 linked; post # 256 linked; post # 2 linked; Lots of others as well in Post # 59; Post # 61; Post # 64;

All the posts above have detailed scriptures added to them. That you have not responded to. It seems in your view;

Jesus did not teach that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

Jesus in your view did not teach that God's Sabbath was made for man kind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

Jesus in your view, did not teach that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

Jesus in your view is not our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

In your view was Jesus was lying when he said those that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom?

In your view was Jesus was lying when he said not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? Now we havent even started on the Aposltes then again if you do not BELIEVE Jesus how will you BELIEVE his discples? Do you believe Jesus and the Apostles are all lying and the Bible is not true?

When your lamp has gone out how can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow is the way? God's Sheep hear his Voice.

Acts 15

Already answered with scriopture a long time ago see post # 5 linked. You have yet to respond to this post and the scriptures in them that disagree with you.

Acts 15 is in reference to.... circumcision as a means of Salvation under the law of Moses written in the book v1, And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved <The controversy is that if you are not circumcised after the law of Moses you cannot be saved>. Acts 15 has no reference in relation to Gods' LAW (10 commandments) it is referring to the Mosaic law written in the book of the law of Moses. Salvation here is not through being circumcised according to the LAW of Moses and intstruction was given to the new gentile BELIEVERS because v21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. The NEW believers were to receive instruction in the Sabbath in regards to God's laws. You have the Mosiac laws mixed up with God's LAW (10 Commandments) and

not even one hint of the Sabbath

Hmm you forget Acts 15:21 and the rest of the bible. Where does it say in Acts 15 that the rest of God's 10 Commandments are mentioned? If they are not mentioned are you teaching it is ok now for Gentile BELIEVERS to break God's Commandments because they are not mentioned in Acts 15? SIN my friend is breaking God's Commandments.

Those who CONTINUE to practice UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER into God's KINGDOM.

COL 2

Already answered in posts # 107 linked; post # 108 linked; post # 109 linked; post # 110 linked; and post 112 linked. I am still waiting for you to respond to these posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with your interpretation of them. We cannot continue a discussion if you do not reply to the posts I send you.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Love, I think the Scripture I gave you were sufficient...Go in peace.
In His Eternal Peace and Grace
Douglas Summers

Likewise, thanks for sharing Douglas.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There are no scriptures that say the God Head is a "Trinity" either. Nor did Jesus EVER mention homosexuality.
You can't make an argument from silence. All the other commandments are mentioned but not the Sabbath. Could it be because it's not of requirement for Christians?

'Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- ' Colossians 2:16

This is one of the only mentions of the Sabbath in the NT and it says NO ONE is to judge in respect to a Sabbath. So why are you judging when it's clear that the Bible teaches not to do such? The new Testament doesn't say anything about not stoning adulterers either does it?

Acts 15:9: “It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.” Vs.21 “For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath (Acts 15:24-25) Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law'-- to whom we gave no such commandment!”

So show us where in the NT there is one teaching by the Apostles or Jesus that the Sabbath is for always and all times. That is what you must show.

You're argument is that since the NT says nothing about it, then it's still in play. Well then, everything commanded in the OT, if not mentioned in the NT is still in effect.

Hi Papa nice to see you. Everything in your post here has already been adderssed with scripture in this OP. See the last post to JBL above. Thanks for your thoughts though.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hi Papa nice to see you. Everything in your post here has already been adderssed with scripture in this OP. See the last post to JBL above. Thanks for your thoughts though.

Posting a bunch of verses and then trying to tie them in is not properly addressing them. I can post a bunch of Scripture too and make a case against Sabbath observance and then when you challenge me I'll simply say, "I already addressed that with Scripture." As if that covers it.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Ignatius was bishop of Antioch in Syria (c. 1st-2nd century A.D.) and martyred in Rome by beasts (c. 105-116 A.D.). On his way to Rome, he visited and wrote to various churches, warning and exhorting them. He also wrote ahead to Rome to Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna. Ignatius warned the Church against heresies that threatened peace and unity, he opposed Gnosticism and Docetism, and in his Epistle to Smyrna, insisted that Christ came in the flesh not just in spirit.

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians 8-10 (c. 110 A.D.)
"Do not be deceived by strange doctrines or antiquated myths, since they are worthless. For if we continue to live accordance with Judaism, we admit that we have not received grace. For the most godly prophets lived in accordance with Christ Jesus. This is why they were persecuted, being inspired as they were by His grace in order that those who are disobedient might be fully convinced that there is one God who revealed Himself through Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word which came forth from silence, who in every respect pleased Him who sent Him. If, then, those who had lived in antiquated practices came to newness of hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath but living in accordance with the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and His death (which some deny), the mystery through which we came to believe, and because of which we patiently endure, in order that we might be found to be disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher, how can we possibly live without Him, whom even the prophets, who were His disciples in the Spirit, were expecting as their teacher? Because of this He for whom they rightly waited raised them from the dead when He came. Therefore let us not be unaware of His goodness. For if He were to imitate the way we act, we are lost. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live in accordance with Christianity. For whoever is called by any other name than this one does not belong to God. Throw out, therefore, the bad leaven, which has become stale and sour, and reach for the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted with Him, so that none of you become rotten, for by your odor you will be examined. It is utterly absurd to profess Jesus Christ and to practice Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity, in which "every tongue" believed and "was brought together" to God."


The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus (c. 260-339 A.D.) is probably one of the most important works on early Church history available, covering the events of its first three centuries. As one born during the early Church period, Eusebius was an able historian who had a close view of the events that helped shape the historical and theological developments of the early Church.

Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 1, Chapter 5 (c. 315 A.D.)
"For as the name Christians is intended to indicate this very idea, that a man, by the knowledge and doctrine of Christ, is distinguished by modesty and justice, by patience and a virtuous fortitude, and by a profession of piety towards the one and only true and supreme God; all this no less studiously cultivated by them than by us. They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath, neither do we; neither do we abstain from certain foods, nor regard other injunctions, which Moses subsequently delivered to be observed in types and symbols, because such things as these do not belong to Christians."

 

[Papa Zoom]

Justin Martyr, who lived at approximately 100 to 165 AD, wrote on this issue. He stated:

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succors the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.​

Let no one judge you concerning food or drink, or in regard to a feast, new moon, or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of coming things, but the body belongs to Christ.
–Paul the Apostle, Colossians 2:16-17, c. A.D. 60
Those who have been brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., converted Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath but living in observance of the Lord's day.
–Ignatius, Magnesians 10, A.D. 110

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ignatius was bishop of Antioch in Syria (c. 1st-2nd century A.D.)

Justin Martyr, who lived at approximately 100 to 165 AD,

Thanks for your thought Papa, but this is not God's Word but from the Catholic Church. Historical references can be biased depending on their origin and who it is that is writing them. History also does NOT supersede the Word of GOD which is to be our guide above all things.

We can read elsewhere in History that the early Christians met on the Sabbath and the first day of the week and other days of the week because of the persecution they were suffering and even in Pauls time we are told that heresy was infiltrating the Church.

The original churches generally held the Sabbath. "The ancient Christians were very careful in the observation of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius (A.D. 297-373, Bishop of Alexandria) likewise tells us that they held religious assemblies on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. Epiphanius says the same." (Antiquities of the Christian Church, Vol. II, Bk.xx, Ch.3, Sec 1, 66. 1136,1137)

The forsaking of the Sabbath, and the enforcing of Sunday observance was instigated by a Roman Emperor who was a devoted "Sun-Worshipper". Here are bits and pieces from a letter he wrote in about A.D. 365 to the "heretics" (non-Catholics / true Christians), -"Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute (Law) that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies....Take the far better course of entering the Catholic church."(Eusebius' -Life of Constantine, Book III) Commentary: Notice that even after more than 300 years Christians were still observing the Sabbath day.

In 781 the famous China Monument was inscribed in marble to tell of the growth of Christianity in China at that time. The inscription of 763 words was unearthed near the city of Changan in 1625 and now stands in the "Forest of Tablets" at Changan. The extract from the tablet states as follows. "On the SEVENTH-DAY we offer sacrifices, (possibly offerings of praise and thanksgiving) after having purified our hearts, and received absolution for our sins. This religion (Christianity), so perfect and so excellent, is difficult to name, but it enlightens darkness by its brilliant precepts.(Laws)" Christianity in China, Vol.I, Ch.2, pgs 48-49, by M. 1'Abbe Hue)

Sabbath observance was widespread and appears to have been opposed by the Roman Catholic Church. It was kept holy by Christians in Egypt in the third century, as the Oxyrhynchus Papyrus shows.(c. 200-250 A.D.)"Except ye make the Sabbath a real Sabbath [Greek, "sabbatize the Sabbath"], ye shall not see the Father." (The Oxyrhynchus Papyri, Pt. 1, pg 3, Logion 2, verses 4-11, London: Offices of the Egyptian Exploration Fund, 1898)

Early Church leader, Origen also enjoined the keeping of the Sabbath. "After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to KEEP ALSO THIS FESTIVAL of the SABBATH. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God."[Hebrews 4:9] (Homily on Numbers 23, para. 4, in Migne, Patrologia Groeca, Vol. 12, cols. 749,750)

The early church taught the Sabbath was for God's work of providence and meditation on His way of life."Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence; it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." (Constitution of the Holy Apostles, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 7, pg 413, 3rd century) This was over 300 years after the resurrection of Christ.

Although the abolishment of the Sabbath and establishment of Sunday worship came through the Roman Catholic church, they freely admit there is absolutely no Biblical authority for it. Notice these statements by Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbon, -"Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify SUNDAY, and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this LAW among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of SUNDAY. The SCRIPTURES enforce the religious observance of SATURDAY (Seventh-day), a day we never sanctify." (Faith of our Fathers, by Cardinal Gibbon)

According to the noted historian, H.G. Wells, Christian Sunday worship was borrowed from Pagan Sun-Worship. "During this indefinite time a considerable amount of a sort of theocrasia (intimate union) seems to have gone on between the Christian cult and the almost equally popular and widely diffused Mithraic cult, and the cult Serapis-Isis-Horus. From the former it would seem the Christians ADOPTED SUNDAY as their chief DAY OF WORSHIP instead of the Jewish SABBATH." (The Outline of History 1, pg 455)

In an effort to stamp out Sabbath keeping the Roman church commanded Christians to fast on that day. (Go without food or water, 24 hours). From canon 26 of the Council of Elvira (c.305 A.D.) It appears that the Christian church in Spain were Sabbath keepers. Rome had introduced the practice of fasting on the Sabbath to counteract Sabbath keeping. Pope Sylvester (314-335) was the first to ORDER the churches to fast on the Sabbath, and Pope Innocent (402-417) made it a binding law in the churches that obeyed him.

The Sabbath keeping Churches in Persia underwent forty years of persecution under Shapur II from 335 to 375 specifically because they were Sabbath keepers. "They despise our SUN-GOD. Did not Zoroaster (Prophet of Mithra, the sun-god), the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." (The Syriac Church and Fathers, by O'Leary, pg 83-84)

The Sabbath was kept in the early Eastern Churches, and some Churches of the West. "For in the Church ofMillaine (Milan), it seemes that Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day were inclined to Judaism; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Jesus Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." (History of the Sabbath, Dr. Peter Heylyn, London 1636, Part 2, para. 5, pgs 73-74)

Sabbath keeping was the original position of the Church. "Sabbath-keeping, the original position of the Church, had spread west into Europe and from Palestine it spread East into India (Early Spread of Christianity, Mingana, Vol. 10, pg 460) and then into China. The introduction of Sabbath-keeping to India caused a controversy in Buddhism in 220 A.D. According to Lloyd (The Creed of Half Japan, pg 23), the Kushan Dynasty of North India called a council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath." Even many Buddhist monks embraced the Sabbath after receiving and studying the Holy Bible.

Notice this puzzling quote from the historian Socrates. "For although almost all Churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and Rome (Catholics), on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." (Ecclesiastical History, Socrates, Bk 5, Ch.22, pg 289) This ancient tradition was the keeping of Sunday as their day of worship. Sunday worship existed long before the birth of Jesus Christ.

The Roman Catholic Church pronounced all Christians keeping the Sabbath as being condemned and cut off from Christ. Council of Laodicea (c.366), Canon 29, -"Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day honouring rather the Lord's day (reference to Sunday) by resting, if possible, as Christians. However if any shall be found Judaizing, let them be ANATHEMA for Christ." (Mansi, II, pgs 569-570, also Hefele Councils, Vol. 2, b. 6) Notice the definition of "anathema" according to the World Book Dictionary, -"A person or thing that is utterly detested or condemned." And, -"A solemn curse by church authorities excommunicating some person from the church." Also, -"The act of denouncing and condemning some person or thing as evil."

There are too many more historical references these are but a few...

 

[Papa Zoom]

Thanks for your thought Papa, but this is not God's Word but from the Catholic Church. Historical references can be biased depending on their origin and who it is that is writing them. History also does NOT supersede the Word of GOD which is to be our guide above all things.

We can read elsewhere in History that the early Christians met on the Sabbath and the first day of the week and other days of the week because of the persecution they were suffering and even in Pauls time we are told that heresy was infiltrating the Church.

The original churches generally held the Sabbath. "The ancient Christians were very careful in the observation of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius (A.D. 297-373, Bishop of Alexandria) likewise tells us that they held religious assemblies on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. Epiphanius says the same." (Antiquities of the Christian Church, Vol. II, Bk.xx, Ch.3, Sec 1, 66. 1136,1137)

The forsaking of the Sabbath, and the enforcing of Sunday observance was instigated by a Roman Emperor who was a devoted "Sun-Worshipper". Here are bits and pieces from a letter he wrote in about A.D. 365 to the "heretics" (non-Catholics / true Christians), -"Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute (Law) that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies....Take the far better course of entering the Catholic church."(Eusebius' -Life of Constantine, Book III) Commentary: Notice that even after more than 300 years Christians were still observing the Sabbath day.

In 781 the famous China Monument was inscribed in marble to tell of the growth of Christianity in China at that time. The inscription of 763 words was unearthed near the city of Changan in 1625 and now stands in the "Forest of Tablets" at Changan. The extract from the tablet states as follows. "On the SEVENTH-DAY we offer sacrifices, (possibly offerings of praise and thanksgiving) after having purified our hearts, and received absolution for our sins. This religion (Christianity), so perfect and so excellent, is difficult to name, but it enlightens darkness by its brilliant precepts.(Laws)" Christianity in China, Vol.I, Ch.2, pgs 48-49, by M. 1'Abbe Hue)

Sabbath observance was widespread and appears to have been opposed by the Roman Catholic Church. It was kept holy by Christians in Egypt in the third century, as the Oxyrhynchus Papyrus shows.(c. 200-250 A.D.)"Except ye make the Sabbath a real Sabbath [Greek, "sabbatize the Sabbath"], ye shall not see the Father." (The Oxyrhynchus Papyri, Pt. 1, pg 3, Logion 2, verses 4-11, London: Offices of the Egyptian Exploration Fund, 1898)

Early Church leader, Origen also enjoined the keeping of the Sabbath. "After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to KEEP ALSO THIS FESTIVAL of the SABBATH. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God."[Hebrews 4:9] (Homily on Numbers 23, para. 4, in Migne, Patrologia Groeca, Vol. 12, cols. 749,750)

The early church taught the Sabbath was for God's work of providence and meditation on His way of life."Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence; it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." (Constitution of the Holy Apostles, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 7, pg 413, 3rd century) This was over 300 years after the resurrection of Christ.

Although the abolishment of the Sabbath and establishment of Sunday worship came through the Roman Catholic church, they freely admit there is absolutely no Biblical authority for it. Notice these statements by Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbon, -"Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify SUNDAY, and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this LAW among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of SUNDAY. The SCRIPTURES enforce the religious observance of SATURDAY (Seventh-day), a day we never sanctify." (Faith of our Fathers, by Cardinal Gibbon)

According to the noted historian, H.G. Wells, Christian Sunday worship was borrowed from Pagan Sun-Worship. "During this indefinite time a considerable amount of a sort of theocrasia (intimate union) seems to have gone on between the Christian cult and the almost equally popular and widely diffused Mithraic cult, and the cult Serapis-Isis-Horus. From the former it would seem the Christians ADOPTED SUNDAY as their chief DAY OF WORSHIP instead of the Jewish SABBATH." (The Outline of History 1, pg 455)

In an effort to stamp out Sabbath keeping the Roman church commanded Christians to fast on that day. (Go without food or water, 24 hours). From canon 26 of the Council of Elvira (c.305 A.D.) It appears that the Christian church in Spain were Sabbath keepers. Rome had introduced the practice of fasting on the Sabbath to counteract Sabbath keeping. Pope Sylvester (314-335) was the first to ORDER the churches to fast on the Sabbath, and Pope Innocent (402-417) made it a binding law in the churches that obeyed him.

The Sabbath keeping Churches in Persia underwent forty years of persecution under Shapur II from 335 to 375 specifically because they were Sabbath keepers. "They despise our SUN-GOD. Did not Zoroaster (Prophet of Mithra, the sun-god), the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." (The Syriac Church and Fathers, by O'Leary, pg 83-84)

The Sabbath was kept in the early Eastern Churches, and some Churches of the West. "For in the Church ofMillaine (Milan), it seemes that Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day were inclined to Judaism; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Jesus Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." (History of the Sabbath, Dr. Peter Heylyn, London 1636, Part 2, para. 5, pgs 73-74)

Sabbath keeping was the original position of the Church. "Sabbath-keeping, the original position of the Church, had spread west into Europe and from Palestine it spread East into India (Early Spread of Christianity, Mingana, Vol. 10, pg 460) and then into China. The introduction of Sabbath-keeping to India caused a controversy in Buddhism in 220 A.D. According to Lloyd (The Creed of Half Japan, pg 23), the Kushan Dynasty of North India called a council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath." Even many Buddhist monks embraced the Sabbath after receiving and studying the Holy Bible.

Notice this puzzling quote from the historian Socrates. "For although almost all Churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and Rome (Catholics), on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." (Ecclesiastical History, Socrates, Bk 5, Ch.22, pg 289) This ancient tradition was the keeping of Sunday as their day of worship. Sunday worship existed long before the birth of Jesus Christ.

The Roman Catholic Church pronounced all Christians keeping the Sabbath as being condemned and cut off from Christ. Council of Laodicea (c.366), Canon 29, -"Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day honouring rather the Lord's day (reference to Sunday) by resting, if possible, as Christians. However if any shall be found Judaizing, let them be ANATHEMA for Christ." (Mansi, II, pgs 569-570, also Hefele Councils, Vol. 2, b. 6) Notice the definition of "anathema" according to the World Book Dictionary, -"A person or thing that is utterly detested or condemned." And, -"A solemn curse by church authorities excommunicating some person from the church." Also, -"The act of denouncing and condemning some person or thing as evil."

There are too many more historical references these are but a few...

No, these are the very early Church Fathers that are very close to the Apostles teaching. And you have zero evidence from the NT that the Sabbath is to be kept. AFAIK, there are but a few groups that are Sabbatarian, 7th Day Adventists being one. You'll only end up repeating yourself here over and over. Are we next to keep all the Jewish festivals too? The very early church did just that!

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB,

Did you have anything new to add to the discussion?



Already answered with scriopture a long time ago see post # 59 linked. You have yet to respond to this post and the scriptures in them that disagree with you.



Well that is not true please see posts # 215 linked; post # 256 linked; post # 2 linked; Lots of others as well in Post # 59; Post # 61; Post # 64;

All the posts above have detailed scriptures added to them. That you have not responded to. It seems in your view;

Jesus did not teach that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

Jesus in your view did not teach that God's Sabbath was made for man kind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

Jesus in your view, did not teach that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

Jesus in your view is not our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

In your view was Jesus was lying when he said those that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom?

In your view was Jesus was lying when he said not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? Now we havent even started on the Aposltes then again if you do not BELIEVE Jesus how will you BELIEVE his discples? Do you believe Jesus and the Apostles are all lying and the Bible is not true?

When your lamp has gone out how can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow is the way? God's Sheep hear his Voice.



Already answered with scriopture a long time ago see post # 5 linked. You have yet to respond to this post and the scriptures in them that disagree with you.

Acts 15 is in reference to.... circumcision as a means of Salvation under the law of Moses written in the book v1, And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved <The controversy is that if you are not circumcised after the law of Moses you cannot be saved>. Acts 15 has no reference in relation to Gods' LAW (10 commandments) it is referring to the Mosaic law written in the book of the law of Moses. Salvation here is not through being circumcised according to the LAW of Moses and intstruction was given to the new gentile BELIEVERS because v21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. The NEW believers were to receive instruction in the Sabbath in regards to God's laws. You have the Mosiac laws mixed up with God's LAW (10 Commandments) and

Hmm you forget Acts 15:21 and the rest of the bible. Where does it say in Acts 15 that the rest of God's 10 Commandments are mentioned? If they are not mentioned are you teaching it is ok now for Gentile BELIEVERS to break God's Commandments because they are not mentioned in Acts 15? SIN my friend is breaking God's Commandments.

Those who CONTINUE to practice UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER into God's KINGDOM.



Already answered in posts # 107 linked; post # 108 linked; post # 109 linked; post # 110 linked; and post 112 linked. I am still waiting for you to respond to these posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with your interpretation of them. We cannot continue a discussion if you do not reply to the posts I send you.

Hope this helps.

Every one of your posts contains no answer to my question as you well know.

I never asked him if Jesus was the Creator and Lord of the Sabbath.

I never asked if it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath, who ch like every other day of the week it’s lawful to do good.

I never asked if the Sabbath was made for man.


What I asked you, and you have never answered, is to provide us with New Testament scriptures that specifically teaches us how to the Church is to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

You have never done this.

If you believe the Church is to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, please show us where Paul instructed his Gentile Churches to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath.


I also asked you if you believe it’s a sin, to not observe the Sabbath according to the law of Moses?




JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Every one of your posts contains no answer to my question as you well know. I never asked him if Jesus was the Creator and Lord of the Sabbath. I never asked if it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath, who ch like every other day of the week it’s lawful to do good. I never asked if the Sabbath was made for man. What I asked you, and you have never answered, is to provide us with New Testament scriptures that specifically teaches us how to the Church is to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant. You have never done this. If you believe the Church is to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, please show us where Paul instructed his Gentile Churches to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath.
I also asked you if you believe it’s a sin, to not observe the Sabbath according to the law of Moses? JLB

Hello JBL,

Nice to see you again. Sorry JBL I disaggree with your post above and you have not responded to any of my posts questions or adressed any of the scriptures in them that disagree with your interpretation of God's Word. SO I guess we will have to agree to disagree my friend.

You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. Your salvation is between you and God. It is the Word if God that we accept or reject that will be our judge in the last days as it is written....

John 12
46, I am come a light into the world, that whoever believes on me should not abide in darkness.
47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I wish you well on your journey my friend, although lets be clear here, SIN is the breaking of ANY of God's Commandments (James 2:8-12). UNREPENTANT SIN will keep all those who CONTINUE in it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

...................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[JLB]

Hello JBL,

Nice to see you again. Sorry JBL I disaggree with your post above and you have not responded to any of my posts questions or adressed any of the scriptures in them that disagree with your interpretation of God's Word. SO I guess we will have to agree to disagree my friend.

You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. Your salvation is between you and God. It is the Word if God that we accept or reject that will be our judge in the last days as it is written....

John 12
46, I am come a light into the world, that whoever believes on me should not abide in darkness.
47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48, He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I wish you well on your journey my friend, although lets be clear here, SIN is the breaking of ANY of God's Commandments (James 2:8-12). UNREPENTANT SIN will keep all those who CONTINUE in it OUT of God's KINGDOM.

...................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Ok so you don’t have any New Testament scriptures that instruct the Church as to how we are to specifically observe the Sabbath.

Everyone see’s this fact, so I won’t ask you again, which is all that matters to me.


Now so have asked you these questions, so that f you would be so kind as to answer at least one of them.


Question # 1 -

If you believe the Church is to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, please show us where Paul instructed his Gentile Churches to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath.


Question # 2 -

Do you believe it’s a sin, to not observe the Sabbath according to the law of Moses?





JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok so you don’t have any New Testament scriptures that instruct the Church as to how we are to specifically observe the Sabbath. Everyone see’s this fact, so I won’t ask you again, which is all that matters to me. JLB

Well that is not true please see posts # 215 linked; post # 256 linked; post # 2 linked; Lots of others as well in Post # 59; Post # 61; Post # 64;

All the posts above have detailed scriptures added to them. That you have not responded to.

It seems in your view;

Jesus did not teach that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

Jesus in your view did not teach that God's Sabbath was made for man kind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

Jesus in your view, did not teach that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

Jesus in your view is not our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

In your view was Jesus was lying when he said those that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom?

In your view was Jesus was lying when he said not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? Now we havent even started on the Aposltes then again if you do not BELIEVE Jesus how will you BELIEVE his discples? Do you believe Jesus and the Apostles are all lying and the Bible is not true?

When your lamp has gone out how can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow is the way? God's Sheep hear his Voice.

Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11)

Those who CONTINUE IN SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Question # 1 - If you believe the Church is to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, please show us where Paul instructed his Gentile Churches to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath.
Question # 2 - Do you believe it’s a sin, to not observe the Sabbath according to the law of Moses?JLB

Amazing why do you demand I answer your questions yet you have not answered any of mine in this thread?

I am happy to answer your questions if you will answer mine?

Now my friend I asked you earlier and said we will have to agree to disagree as you are not adding anything to the discussion and refuse to reply to my posts with the scriptures and questions in them as I do for you.

I wish to follow the TOS in this bible study thread so let's agree to disagree. If your not happy and have nothing further to contribute please move on.

If you want to debate the topic in the debate section of the forum I will put out a challenge to you to come debate the topic with me but this is a bible study section so I ask you to respect the forum rules here.

Thanks for your consideration.

Respectfully

LGW

 

[Papa Zoom]

Jesus taught about the Sabbath to the Jews. Under the Old Covenant. That was still in effect.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus taught about the Sabbath to the Jews. Under the Old Covenant. That was still in effect.

Hi Papa,

Nice to see you again. Jesus did indeed great point. He was building on the knowledge already known from the Old Testament scriptures teaching that he was the Creator God, and LORD of the Sabbath.

He came to break down the traditions of the Jews around the Sabbath saying it was made for man and man was not made for the Sabbath and that that the Sabbath should be a delight and time for worship and doing good.

But who does the Word of God say are God's Israel under the NEW Covenant and what is a Jew according to the NEW Covenant scriptures?

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hi Papa,

Nice to see you again. Jesus did indeed great point. He was building on the knowledge already known from the Old Testament scriptures teaching that he was the Creator God, and LORD of the Sabbath.

He came to break down the traditions of the Jews around the Sabbath saying it was made for man and man was not made for the Sabbath and that that the Sabbath should be a delight and time for worship and doing good.

But who does the Word of God say are God's Israel under the NEW Covenant and what is a Jew according to the NEW Covenant scriptures?

You're saying that to not observe the Sabbath is a sin unto God. I don't think there is any evidence for such a claim. There is no evidence in the NT that we are to keep the Sabbath under the Mosaic Law. I know you believe otherwise but I can't find anywhere that such a teaching is in the historic church.