Grubal Muruch
Member
Alas, you are, harshly mistaken my "misguided" friend...You need but look to John 3:16 to find an answer to that most perplexing question...The answer found there is "not" exactly "ambiguous."
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Alas, you are, harshly mistaken my "misguided" friend...You need but look to John 3:16 to find an answer to that most perplexing question...The answer found there is "not" exactly "ambiguous."
Grubal Muruch
Member
Truth, is oftentimes "popular"
jasoncran
Member
all means all. it cant be some.
its not stated for god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten that the few that will believe him shall be saved.
its whomsover will come..
a will is implied. we arent robots. God doesnt make us serve him , that aint love. he wants us to love him and love is a choice not a forced thing.and yes i know the arguments of limited free will.
it makes no sense if God commanded us to do these things in the nt(communion and be holy) that we cant resist him as well.
its not stated for god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten that the few that will believe him shall be saved.
its whomsover will come..
a will is implied. we arent robots. God doesnt make us serve him , that aint love. he wants us to love him and love is a choice not a forced thing.and yes i know the arguments of limited free will.
it makes no sense if God commanded us to do these things in the nt(communion and be holy) that we cant resist him as well.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
In all honesty, what you bring to the table is salvation by works, that is a long way from the Truth the bible Teaches. Eph 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Grubal Muruch
Member
Unfortunately, your honesty is wasted here Sir. what I bring to the table is the "truth of the ages" Grace+faith+conversion=eternal life...
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savedbygrace57
Guest
gm
17For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
Maybe to you it is. However I answer to God 2 Cor 2:17
17For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
Believing is something man does. Thats works
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Redemption by His Blood
1 Pet 1:18
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
This is Salvation, Redemption is Salvation Lk 1:68-70
68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
The word for redeemed in Lk 1:68 is the greek word lytrōsis:
a ransoming, redemption
2) deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
And the redemption is obviously through the redemptive work of Christ, since that is who is being celebrated in Lk 1:68ff.
Now redemption implies a release from prison or captivity 1 Pet 1:18
The word redeemed is the greek word lytroō:
to release on receipt of ransom
2) to redeem, liberate by payment of ransom
a) to liberate
b) to cause to be released to one's self by payment of a ransom
c) to redeem
d) to deliver: from evils of every kind, internal and external
It means to liberate ! Liberate from what ? To liberate from captivity of sin, of unbelief and Idolatry.
By nature, God's elect are in the prison of unbelief and of the Law and Sin Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Describing the Natural Man, what we are by birth.
Rom 11:32
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Bien sold under sin and concluded in unbelief are the same. The word concluded is the greek word :sygkleio:
to shut up together, enclose
a) of a shoal of fishes in a net
2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
This is denoting an imprisonment, completely shut up on all sides with no way of escape.
Yes, this is describing unbelief by nature, no exceptions, our so called freewill cannot help us.
All by nature are imprisoned into unbelief, by God. He concluded all in unbelief.
Now unbelief is also disobedience, in fact it is translated disobedience 3 times Eph 2:2;5:6;Col 3:6
What was it the characterized Eve's Unbelief ? It was her disobedience when she believed satan over God
1 Pet 1:18
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
This is Salvation, Redemption is Salvation Lk 1:68-70
68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
The word for redeemed in Lk 1:68 is the greek word lytrōsis:
a ransoming, redemption
2) deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
And the redemption is obviously through the redemptive work of Christ, since that is who is being celebrated in Lk 1:68ff.
Now redemption implies a release from prison or captivity 1 Pet 1:18
The word redeemed is the greek word lytroō:
to release on receipt of ransom
2) to redeem, liberate by payment of ransom
a) to liberate
b) to cause to be released to one's self by payment of a ransom
c) to redeem
d) to deliver: from evils of every kind, internal and external
It means to liberate ! Liberate from what ? To liberate from captivity of sin, of unbelief and Idolatry.
By nature, God's elect are in the prison of unbelief and of the Law and Sin Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Describing the Natural Man, what we are by birth.
Rom 11:32
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Bien sold under sin and concluded in unbelief are the same. The word concluded is the greek word :sygkleio:
to shut up together, enclose
a) of a shoal of fishes in a net
2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
This is denoting an imprisonment, completely shut up on all sides with no way of escape.
Yes, this is describing unbelief by nature, no exceptions, our so called freewill cannot help us.
All by nature are imprisoned into unbelief, by God. He concluded all in unbelief.
Now unbelief is also disobedience, in fact it is translated disobedience 3 times Eph 2:2;5:6;Col 3:6
What was it the characterized Eve's Unbelief ? It was her disobedience when she believed satan over God
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Saves from sin, unbelief,and disobedience !
Now unbelief is also disobedience, in fact it is translated disobedience 3 times Eph 2:2;5:6;Col 3:6
What was it the characterized Eve's Unbelief ? It was her disobedience when she believed satan over God
Gen 3:1-6
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Satan entices her into unbelief of what God had said !
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat[ Disobedience], and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
So you see the sin began in Unbelief, that is the sin that deceived the world,for at that Time Adam and Eve represented the World.
Thats the sin God must save His People from. From this all men must be born sinners and in unbelief and disobedience. By the disobedience of one [Adam] what happens ? Rom 5:19a
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, or we could say many were made unbelievers !
Now all this was made to point out that by nature are imprisoned in unbelief and or disobedience as a consequence of Adam's sin, as Representative of His offspring in him. So in Rom 5:12, one Man's sin, all became unbelievers, thats part of our sinner ship by nature.
Now unbelief is also disobedience, in fact it is translated disobedience 3 times Eph 2:2;5:6;Col 3:6
What was it the characterized Eve's Unbelief ? It was her disobedience when she believed satan over God
Gen 3:1-6
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Satan entices her into unbelief of what God had said !
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat[ Disobedience], and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
So you see the sin began in Unbelief, that is the sin that deceived the world,for at that Time Adam and Eve represented the World.
Thats the sin God must save His People from. From this all men must be born sinners and in unbelief and disobedience. By the disobedience of one [Adam] what happens ? Rom 5:19a
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, or we could say many were made unbelievers !
Now all this was made to point out that by nature are imprisoned in unbelief and or disobedience as a consequence of Adam's sin, as Representative of His offspring in him. So in Rom 5:12, one Man's sin, all became unbelievers, thats part of our sinner ship by nature.
Grubal Muruch
Member
ALL sin is disobedience to God... We come to God after hearing the word. With ALL our sins "on board" The Spirit convicts us of sin and if we place our faith in Christ, we are subsequently forgiven our sins (including unbelief that you keep bringing up) and become "a child of God."
Amen. I'm pretty sure we all started out in unbelief. The gospel is so simple. I'm not sure why some want to make it so complicated. I'm thankful for you, brother, as you just keep putting forth the gospel of faith.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
gb
Yes, the Jesus I witness of saves His People from their sins. Unbelief and disobedience are some of the sins He saves them from.
Yes, the Jesus I witness of saves His People from their sins. Unbelief and disobedience are some of the sins He saves them from.
Grubal Muruch
Member
The problem is, unbelief is something we have "before" we hear the word and become saved... So "technically" it's really not a sin, it's a "state of mind." Now, after we hear the word, and are convicted by the Holy Spirit then "reject" the word, at that point you can say we're guilty of "unbelief." Sometimes we have to look deeper into issues of this importance. I'm sure you would agree...
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savedbygrace57
Guest
gb
Unbelief is a sin. It was first committed by Eve when She believed satan over God.
Gen 3:1-6
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Her believing satan , when he said to her, thou shall not surely die ! But God had told her she would die. So by eating she showed that she believed satans lie, which means she disbelieved God, and was persuaded that if she did eat she would not die.
She gave to her husband also and he did eat. From that, all men by nature are born in unbelief. Thats the main sin that man needs to be saved from, and people like you make it a condition to get saved. You actually are saying man must save himself by undoing spiritual death and becoming a believer.
The fact is however, those who are lost cannot believe because the god of this world has blinded their minds lest that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4
3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In other words, a lost man cannot believe because of the satanic blindness of his mind, so then, only a saved person can believe the Gospel..
Unbelief is a sin. It was first committed by Eve when She believed satan over God.
Gen 3:1-6
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Her believing satan , when he said to her, thou shall not surely die ! But God had told her she would die. So by eating she showed that she believed satans lie, which means she disbelieved God, and was persuaded that if she did eat she would not die.
She gave to her husband also and he did eat. From that, all men by nature are born in unbelief. Thats the main sin that man needs to be saved from, and people like you make it a condition to get saved. You actually are saying man must save himself by undoing spiritual death and becoming a believer.
The fact is however, those who are lost cannot believe because the god of this world has blinded their minds lest that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4
3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In other words, a lost man cannot believe because of the satanic blindness of his mind, so then, only a saved person can believe the Gospel..
Grubal Muruch
Member
It was Adam who was held "accountable" for the sin...Romans 5:19 states, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." This verse says "nothing" about Eve's part in the disobedience...Eve was deceived, but Adam was not, he "choose" to sin therefore, God places the blame squarely on him and not Eve...
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savedbygrace57
Guest
gm
Eve was Adam, God made them one Gen 5:1
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Adam Transgressed Rom 5:14
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
However it was through Eve 1 Tim 2:13-14
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
That was Adam's Transgression, when Eve Transgressed..But yes, Adam was still held accountable.
Eve was Adam, God made them one Gen 5:1
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Adam Transgressed Rom 5:14
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
However it was through Eve 1 Tim 2:13-14
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
That was Adam's Transgression, when Eve Transgressed..But yes, Adam was still held accountable.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
The same with the Church, Christ's Eve !
The Church, the bride of Christ sinned, transgressed, however Christ, because He was her Head, He was held accountable for her sin. Adam because he was the head of eve, who actually transgressed first, Adam was held accountable for her sin.
Thats why transgression was not imputed to the Church 2 Cor 5:19, but it was laid to the charge of Christ 1 Cor 15:3
The Church, the bride of Christ sinned, transgressed, however Christ, because He was her Head, He was held accountable for her sin. Adam because he was the head of eve, who actually transgressed first, Adam was held accountable for her sin.
Thats why transgression was not imputed to the Church 2 Cor 5:19, but it was laid to the charge of Christ 1 Cor 15:3
Grubal Muruch
Member
Believe it or not, I will concede that Eve stood guilty as well, for she told Satan that they were not to eat or touch (touch was her addition to the command) the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, by doing that, she showed knowledge of God's command...So , you ARE correct in stating that...My mistake...
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savedbygrace57
Guest
So therefore, you make something that man was lost for unbelief, you make it the condition that he must perform to get saved. You actually make man his own Saviour , because you have already admitted that what Christ did in and of itself for those He died for did not save them ! Its not until man performs belief in Christ that he gets saved. So you make man his own saviour, you deny Christ death alone saves, you promote salvation by works or what mand does, which the bible denies.
I preach that Christ saves His People from their sins, from their unbelief and disobdeince.
Thats what the bible Teaches Matt 1:21
21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.