Jesus saves from unbelief !

[glorydaz]

glory



Glory admits that Christ death in and of itself did not save anyone !

I consider that blasphemy . I serve a different Christ than he. The Christ I serve His death saved those He died for, and after that, they believed in Him. He saved them from their sins to include unbelief.

Interesting...my first charge of BLASPHEMY on this forum. Let me make a note.

The Christ YOU SERVE is still in the grave then? Yep, that's different alright.


Jesus Christ was resurrected which is why I live. We are saved by His life, not His death.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Are you not justified then?

Christ was delivered for our offences, and RAISED FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION.

But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The gospel is not just Christ's death for our sins, but that He rose again.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[reba]

I am sorry the blasphemy talk got by me... Please let it end here. reba

 

[glorydaz]

So you say God's salvation can go forth with out man.


I am not asking trick questions at least i dont think they are. I did not ask you to keep your answer brief. I am simple and direct.



I hope you had a great time playing Yatzee! Grand kids are great.

Yes, grandkids are great. This one beat me at Yahtzee. I'm a loser when it comes to games. ;)

Of course God's salvation can go forth without man...except that man is the recipient, of course.
We're talking about Jesus being lifted up, right? I feel like I must be missing something here.

We have God's moral law written in our conscience, correct?
Is that not God's grace?

We can have divine revelation through our conscience.
We read it in the Old Testament.
We experience it ourselves.

Now, Jesus has sent us out to preach the good news.
That's to give man an even better opportunity to see Jesus.
He is lifted up as never before because, as members of His body, we are sharing the gospel to the ends of the earth.

What is sharing the gospel except lifting up Jesus as the Light of the world?

 

[reba]

The we you speak of is that man or Christian?

If your 'we' is christian man then yes.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I agree. I never said otherwise. 30+ years and god never once convicted (convinced) me via the holy spirit. That explains why I have no belief in "him". Sure, I "thought" I believed for many years, but later realized that it was just wishful thinking, and that I was just hoping for something that wasn't there.

You would be surprised how many people think (like I did) that they can just "choose" to believe in god (without ever having been convicted). However, one cannot just "will" or "choose" belief. One cannot truly believe in something by just "choosing" to. True belief comes from understanding and being convinced of something's truth. One can only come to understanding and (true) belief via the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, it is just an intellectual "assent" or "belief."

Many people (wrongly) think that some of the following constitutes a (saving)belief in god:

• "Believing" in god because they "want" it to be true
• "Believing" in god because they were "taught" to believe that way
• "Believing" in god, because "how else can you explain such and such....?"
• "Believing" in god because it helps to keep them more focused away from bad things (addiction, alcoholism)
• "Believing" in god because it is a morally good thing to do

Without the holy spirit regenerating a person to bring them to faith, none of the above "counts" as having a belief/faith in god. The "elect" are those who are brought to a true belief/faith via the holy spirit (not of themselves) resulting in their becoming a "new" regenerated being. Many "intellectual believers" who think they can just choose to believe in god out of their own will, will surprisingly find out later that they had a false (not "true") belief when god tells them to "depart, I never knew you." Narrow is the gate.....

Why don't you just go into a quiet room and tell God you don't believe in Him but would like too...You seem to have "Intellectual" knowledge about Christianity but, you need to get personal with God, and tell Him the things you tell others. The Bible says, "Seek and you'll find." Keep seeking. Do you fear death or your destination after death??

Ask God, if He's there, to "reveal" Himself to you...Go over Romans, Ephesians, Galatians and some of the other "New Testament" books. Especially written by Paul...If you're truly interested in finding God, than you will...If your really not interested and don't care, then that's your decision, and your choice...I would suggest you continue to "seek"

 

[Grubal Muruch]

glory



Glory admits that Christ death in and of itself did not save anyone !

I consider that blasphemy . I serve a different Christ than he. The Christ I serve His death saved those He died for, and after that, they believed in Him. He saved them from their sins to include unbelief.

Christ took upon Himself the sins of the "entire" world... The second part of that, "Spiritual operation" was His Resurrection. Paul said in "Corinthians 15:14"---"And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain." So, "both" parts were "integral in this process...You need "both" Glory didn't say, what you said he did...Lets be honest OK??

 

[Grubal Muruch]

gb



For the third or fourth time, we have eastablished that Christ died for sin. I am asking you , do you believe that Christ's death alone, what He did, does that save sinners He died for, apart from them doing anything ! Yes or No.. If its any consolation, glory said no, that it does not.

There's only "one" way to eternal life, and that's through Jesus Christ. Our faith is also, a necessary "component" in God's "provision" for forgiveness and mercy...Again, Christ died for the sins of "ALL" mankind... We "must" place our faith in Christ, before we can have the "benefits" of God's "Spiritual provision." I"m "CERTAIN" Glorydaz would agree with this...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

You'll have to excuse me. I didn't know we needed to keep our answers brief.

I thought I'd made it clear by what I'd written.

No, but God does use man to lift up Christ through the preaching of the gospel.

AMEN! The Bible "proclaims" that as well...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

So you say God's salvation can go forth with out man.


I am not asking trick questions at least i dont think they are. I did not ask you to keep your answer brief. I am simple and direct.



I hope you had a great time playing Yatzee! Grand kids are great.

Reba, I'd like to add to what "glory" said, and that is, God, "chose" that man should "preach" and spread the Gospel. He could of chose another way (being God) but, He chose men to spread His "good news." I sincerely believe glory would back me in this...

 

[glorydaz]

The we you speak of is that man or Christian?

If your 'we' is christian man then yes.

I'm talking about all men. Our conscience is God's grace to man. God could have created us without a conscience, then we wouldn't have that inner voice telling us when we've done something wrong. "That which may be known of God is manifest in them;"

This is why man is without excuse...we know the difference between good and evil.

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The conscience of man bears witness to God's moral law. This is what I mean by divine revelation...God has been revealed to us through the conscience.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[glorydaz]

Reba, I'd like to add to what "glory" said, and that is, God, "chose" that man should "preach" and spread the Gospel. He could of chose another way (being God) but, He chose men to spread His "good news." I sincerely believe glory would back me in this...

The prophets and the apostles back you up on that one. Oh, so do I.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Interesting...my first charge of BLASPHEMY on this forum. Let me make a note.

The Christ YOU SERVE is still in the grave then? Yep, that's different alright.


Jesus Christ was resurrected which is why I live. We are saved by His life, not His death.


Are you not justified then?

Christ was delivered for our offences, and RAISED FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION.


The gospel is not just Christ's death for our sins, but that He rose again.

Because He arose "triumphant" we can now have "newness" of life and the promise of "eternal life"

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Yes, grandkids are great. This one beat me at Yahtzee. I'm a loser when it comes to games. ;)

Of course God's salvation can go forth without man...except that man is the recipient, of course.
We're talking about Jesus being lifted up, right? I feel like I must be missing something here.

We have God's moral law written in our conscience, correct?
Is that not God's grace?

We can have divine revelation through our conscience.
We read it in the Old Testament.
We experience it ourselves.

Now, Jesus has sent us out to preach the good news.
That's to give man an even better opportunity to see Jesus.
He is lifted up as never before because, as members of His body, we are sharing the gospel to the ends of the earth.

What is sharing the gospel except lifting up Jesus as the Light of the world?

Glorious truth!!!!

 

[glorydaz]

There's only "one" way to eternal life, and that's through Jesus Christ. Our faith is also, a necessary "component" in God's "provision" for forgiveness and mercy...Again, Christ died for the sins of "ALL" mankind... We "must" place our faith in Christ, before we can have the "benefits" of God's "Spiritual provision." I"m "CERTAIN" Glorydaz would agree with this...

Yep, and so is repentance.

When we believe in Jesus Christ, we must believe that not only did He die for our sins, but that He was born of a virgin (meaning He was the Son of God), and that He was risen to glory. If we don't believe that, we don't have faith in Christ which is necessary for salvation. It's a package deal. Christ's death alone doesn't save anyone. Were it not for the resurrection, life for us would be impossible. Water baptism is a picture of Christ's death and resurrection. Wouldn't want to stay underwater...would we?

 

[glorydaz]

Because He arose "triumphant" we can now have "newness" of life and the promise of "eternal life"

Amen. Had He not risen, the Holy Spirit wouldn't have come to us. Without Christ in us, and our position in Christ, we'd have no chance of being a new creature. We'd still be floundering around being defeated.

Thank you, Jesus for saving my soul...and making me whole. ;)

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Amen. Had He not risen, the Holy Spirit wouldn't have come to us. Without Christ in us, and our position in Christ, we'd have no chance of being a new creature. We'd still be floundering around being defeated.

Thank you, Jesus for saving my soul...and making me whole. ;)

And I have to say, AMEN!!

 

[savedbygrace57]

gm

There's only "one" way to eternal life, and that's through Jesus Christ

For the fifth time, that has been established, I believe that. However, you insinuate that Christ death alone, does not save them He died for, Am I right. Do you believe that in addition to Christ work, Man must do something before he is saved ?

Separate in your thinking what Christ did. Now does man have to DO something to get saved ? Yes or No.

If you say Yes, then you are saying not what Christ did saved you, but what you did. Its just that simple.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Interesting...my first charge of BLASPHEMY on this forum. Let me make a note.

The Christ YOU SERVE is still in the grave then? Yep, that's different alright.


Jesus Christ was resurrected which is why I live. We are saved by His life, not His death.


Are you not justified then?

Christ was delivered for our offences, and RAISED FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION.


The gospel is not just Christ's death for our sins, but that He rose again.

I asked you, is it what Christ did, His Death, burial, and Resurrection for those He died for, does that alone, save one. You said no. Right ?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

gm



For the fifth time, that has been established, I believe that. However, you insinuate that Christ death alone, does not save them He died for, Am I right. Do you believe that in addition to Christ work, Man must do something before he is saved ?

Separate in your thinking what Christ did. Now does man have to DO something to get saved ? Yes or No.

If you say Yes, then you are saying not what Christ did saved you, but what you did. Its just that simple.

sbg57-----However, you insinuate that Christ death alone, does not save them He died for, Am I right. Do you believe that in addition to Christ work, Man must do something before he is saved ?

Grubul-----Christ died for the sins of ALL mankind... And He, resurrected... By the "two-part" process of dying for our sins and being Resurrected, we've had our sins forgiven , have newness of life, and assurance of eternal life. However, in order to receive "God's provision" we must place our faith in Christ as our Savior and Lord...That's about as, "simplistic" as it can be "articulated."

sbg57-----Separate in your thinking what Christ did. Now does man have to DO something to get saved ? Yes or No.

Grubal-----No, all he has to do is, believe (place his faith) in the finished "work" of Christ..."

sbg57-----If you say Yes, then you are saying not what Christ did saved you, but what you did. Its just that simple

Grubal----Christ did ALL the work, all we're asked to do is "believe."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I asked you, is it what Christ did, His Death, burial, and Resurrection for those He died for, does that alone, save one. You said no. Right ?

Allow me to apply "my" opinion to this question. First, Christ died for ALL of mankind. Second, Christ's death/Resurrection can not be applied to the individual before their faith is placed...God requires "faith"