Jesus saves from unbelief !

[reba]

We have God's moral law written in our conscience, correct?
Is that not God's grace?

Islam is under God's grace?

We can have divine revelation through our conscience.
We read it in the Old Testament.
We experience it ourselves.

once again i read this ae no need for the the Cross

Now, Jesus has sent us out to preach the good news.

agree

That's to give man an even better opportunity to see Jesus.
He is lifted up as never before because, as members of His body, we are sharing the gospel to the ends of the earth.

I read this aw if the work of Christ is past tense no on going

What is sharing the gospel except lifting up Jesus as the Light of the world?

AMENhttp://www.christianforums.net/editpost.php?p=584114&do=editpost

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory

I believed ....trusted. Believing is not a work, it's an occurance.

It is a work. It is something you did. Trusted is a action verb done by the Subject Eph 1:13

Believing is something man does ! Anything a man does is work.

The word work in scripture is the word ergon and means:

an act, deed, thing done:

any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

Now do you deny that Trusting and or believing is a thing done by the mind or heart of man ?

 

[reba]

Reba, I find it hard to believe in this modern (world of global communication) that someone has "not" heard the Gospel at least once. But, say there is such a person, and he "never" hears the Gospel. Well, then we can "only" speculate (guess) how God will deal with such a person. I can guess but it wouldn't necessarily be correct... Romans 10:14 is the norm, it states,"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Those who never hear (if there's such a person) well, their in God's hands...

What of Romans 1:20 it is as important as Romans 10:14

The point i am trying to relate is God does not need man. Man needs God... I read a lot of Grub and Daz to be saying how much God MUST rely on man. Is that the message you wish to put forth?

Those who never hear (if there's such a person) well, their in God's hands...

No better place to be!

 

[reba]

sit
jump
reach
Which of these words is not an action?


once again not one of these passages is of more value then the other.. I do struggle with the balance.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

[savedbygrace57]

reba

sit
jump
reach
Which of these words is not an action?

That is correct, and they all fall under the definition of a work ! A Effort !

 

[Grubal Muruch]

gm



Yes, I know that. However you deny that it was His death alone that saved those Lost sinners. You say they must do something in additon to what Christ did.

If thats the case, then its what they did what saved them ! You say they must Trust Christ before they are saved. Now who does the Trusting ? Is Trusting something men do or what Christ did ?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

God "requires" man to "believe" (put his God given ability to believe in what he will) in Jesus Christ, His Son...

Christ did, "ALL" the work, God asks us to only "believe" Romans 10:9----"That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

What of Romans 1:20 it is as important as Romans 10:14

The point i am trying to relate is God does not need man. Man needs God... I read a lot of Grub and Daz to be saying how much God MUST rely on man. Is that the message you wish to put forth?
No better place to be!

According to Romans 1:20---Man "is" without excuse to say there is no God. Because, men have to but look around to, see the proof that there had to be a creator. Therefore, at the judgement man cannot use the excuse "I didn't know there was a God."

In the beginning God "created" man in His image. I believe God created man for "fellowship." Remember God "walked" in the garden (with Adam) in the cool of the day. So there was a "relationship" between God and man. But, man "broke" that relationship, by sinning...You say "God doesn't need man." Well, that's something "only" God can answer...He loved man so much that He sent His Son to die for him (man) (John3:16)

 

[reba]

According to Romans 1:20---Man "is" without excuse to say there is no God. Because, men have to but look around to, see the proof that there had to be a creator. Therefore, at the judgement man cannot use the excuse "I didn't know there was a God."

In the beginning God "created" man in His image. I believe God created man for "fellowship." Remember God "walked" in the garden (with Adam) in the cool of the day. So there was a "relationship" between God and man. But, man "broke" that relationship, by sinning...You say "God doesn't need man." Well, that's something "only" God can answer...He loved man so much that He sent His Son to die for him (man) (John3:16)

Grub you well know my statement about God not needing man was in regards to salvation not fellowship...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

sit
jump
reach
Which of these words is not an action?


once again not one of these passages is of more value then the other.. I do struggle with the balance.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:4---"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"----If we "except" the truth that God has given "every man" "free-will" then this passage means that, whosoever, "would" (future tense) come to Christ by faith, "should be holy and without blame before Him in love"

Ephesians 1:5---"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"----God is saying that He "predestined" that those who would (future tense) come to Christ by faith, would be considered an "adopted child of God through Christ" because that was the "pleasure" of God...God wanted those who would come to Him, by faith, to be considered a "child of God..."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

reba



That is correct, and they all fall under the definition of a work ! A Effort !

All those "efforts" are done with the "physical" body (run, jump, reach, etc) How does "believing" relate to a physical action?? Please explain??

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Grub you well know my statement about God not needing man was in regards to salvation not fellowship...

We would do well to "consider" both "facets" of this question, don't you think? So far as, "God needing us in the salvation process," Our "faith" is "required" in the process of our salvation. Without our faith, there is no salvation...

 

[glorydaz]

We have God's moral law written in our conscience, correct?
Is that not God's grace?

Islam is under God's grace?

Islam isn't, but all men are. God's grace is upon all men.

he LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

We can have divine revelation through our conscience.
We read it in the Old Testament.
We experience it ourselves.

once again i read this ae no need for the the Cross

The light given through our conscience still requires faith in the Son.

That's to give man an even better opportunity to see Jesus.
He is lifted up as never before because, as members of His body, we are sharing the gospel to the ends of the earth.

I read this aw if the work of Christ is past tense no on going

Why? We're to spread the gospel until the Lord returns.

 

[reba]

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Islam isn't, but all men are. God's grace is upon all men.

So all the people in Islamic religions (wanted you to understand my meaning) are saved. as we are saved by Grace

 

[savedbygrace57]

gm

Christ did, "ALL" the work,

I know that. But you deny that it is the work Christ did alone, that saves. You teach that man must do something required first. So you teach man is actually saved by him doing what is required.

That is Salvation by works !

 

[savedbygrace57]

All those "efforts" are done with the "physical" body (run, jump, reach, etc) How does "believing" relate to a physical action?? Please explain??

Believing is something man does with his mind isnt it ? Is the mind he believes with physical ?

 

[reba]

About 40 years of free will teaching in my head/heart. When i read your ( Daz Grub) postings they most definitely tip the scales.

I see in your posts a slight lack of regard for the the sovereignty of God. In no way am i implying you do not love the Lord or do i doubt your salvation.

 

[glorydaz]

glory



It is a work. It is something you did. Trusted is a action verb done by the Subject Eph 1:13

Believing is something man does ! Anything a man does is work.

The word work in scripture is the word ergon and means:

an act, deed, thing done:

any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

Now do you deny that Trusting and or believing is a thing done by the mind or heart of man ?

You're reaching a little too far with this one, SBG.

The Lord discerns the intents of man's heart. He alone knows if there is true repentance there.

I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

It's the work of God that we believe.

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[glorydaz]

What of Romans 1:20 it is as important as Romans 10:14

The point i am trying to relate is God does not need man. Man needs God... I read a lot of Grub and Daz to be saying how much God MUST rely on man. Is that the message you wish to put forth?
No better place to be!

Of course God doesn't need man. However, God is the one set up the plan of salvation.

I'd suggest your argument is with God, not Grubal and I.

We aren't the ones who said, "How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?"
We don't make the rules, we just proclaim them.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

[glorydaz]

I do struggle with the balance.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Yes, whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish.

He chose us...the set apart body of Christ...to be a royal priesthood (priesthood of believers), and predestined us for adoption as children.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

[glorydaz]

We would do well to "consider" both "facets" of this question, don't you think? So far as, "God needing us in the salvation process," Our "faith" is "required" in the process of our salvation. Without our faith, there is no salvation...

Yes, and without salvation there would be no fellowship. In order for man to fulfill the reason God created us, He had to send the Saviour. Our fellowship with God is possible because of Jesus Christ.