Jesus saves from unbelief !

[glorydaz]

See, this is where the problem is. There is no point in moving past the part highlighted in red above if this has not yet happened. Man cannot have a true faith in god without spiritual understanding. And who is responsible for granting this understanding? God....via the holy spirit. Those who are dead in sin are not able to understand as they are "spiritually discerned." I can't "choose" to have faith, until the Holy Spirit convicts (convinces) me. It is a gift of god and not of our doing.

Dead in sin isn't exactly what you seem to be implying. Man sees God through the things around him. The things of God are written in our conscience, and we feel guilty when we do something wrong. Jesus is knocking on the door. When you finally get up and open the door, you'll have understanding because you'll be confronted with your Saviour.

 

[glorydaz]

gm



We have established that, but that work did not save anyone. If Christ work alone saved everyone He died for, then they would have been saved by His work alone before they did anytrhing, before they believed. But you do not believe that do you ?

The work of the cross took care of the sin...taking part in the resurrection is what saves us.

Christ opened the prison door when He died on the cross. Those who step out the door by believing in Him will be saved. Those who continue to love their sin (prison) can stay there if they choose. Those who want life can come as He commands. Come out, follow me.....

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

So man can decide to stay in an empty cell and die there, or he can walk out the door and live.
Man, himself, must choose which.

The prison door is open...choose life...come....

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

[Grubal Muruch]

The work of the cross took care of the sin...taking part in the resurrection is what saves us.

Christ opened the prison door when He died on the cross. Those who step out the door by believing in Him will be saved. Those who continue to love their sin (prison) can stay there if they choose. Those who want life can come as He commands. Come out, follow me.....


So man can decide to stay in an empty cell and die there, or he can walk out the door and live.
Man, himself, must choose which.

The prison door is open...choose life...come....

AMEN!!!!

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory

The work of the cross took care of the sin

We have established that, Christ died for sin. Did Christ death save anyone ? Do you believe Christ death alone, apart from anything a person DOES, saves those He die for ?

 

[glorydaz]

LOL! I don't need for you to teach me all about "god's grace and forgiveness" since I have been educated in christianity for well over 30 years. If you are just using this as an excuse to dodge the question, then I'll take it you have no answer. Otherwise, why would you not discuss such things on an apologetics board?

Being "educated in Christianity" means you've been taught by men and not by God. The pharisees were very well educated in the law, but they were only clean on the outside, and had no understanding in spiritual things.

 

[savedbygrace57]

AMEN!!!!

Did you miss post 134 ? You wanna discuss that post for a minute ?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Being "educated in Christianity" means you've been taught by men and not by God. The pharisees were very well educated in the law, but they were only clean on the outside, and had no understanding in spiritual things.

Excellent analogy...

 

[glorydaz]

glory



We have established that, Christ died for sin. Did Christ death save anyone ? Do you believe Christ death alone, apart from anything a person DOES, saves those He die for ?

No, His work on the cross took away the enmity between God and man....God's grace.

Man is now able, because of the work of the cross, to come to God through faith in the Son.
We must take part in the resurrection to be saved.

 

[glorydaz]

Did you miss post 134 ? You wanna discuss that post for a minute ?

LOL I think we're jumping over each other. Yes, I addressed that post in 142.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Did you miss post 134 ? You wanna discuss that post for a minute ?

sbg57-----We have established that, but that work did not save anyone. If Christ work alone saved everyone He died for, then they would have been saved by His work alone before they did anytrhing, before they believed. But you do not believe that do you ?

Grubal----First of all, Christ died for a "world" of lost sinners... In order to "receive" the benefits" of God's Grace, we "must" place "our faith" in Christ as Lord and Savior. Faith is an essential and non-negotiable "precursor" to salvation...

 

[reba]

Re: Jesus saves from unbelief !

Originally Posted by glorydaz
Christ does have to be lifted up somehow. God talked to Cain and Abel, Noah and Abraham.
We know the Judge of the whole earth does right. Before the gospel in the New Testament, the prophets lifted up the Messiah in all they preached and wrote. God has always gotten His message of salvation out.

Does God need man to lift up Christ?
​

 

[glorydaz]

Does God need man to lift up Christ? Again thinking of Romans 1:20

The gospel must/ should/ etc/ be preached. for me ether way is great... Then in light of Romans 1:20 do folks have to 'hear" like with natural ears? Or do some hear with , for lack of better words, spiritual ears?

Personally, I think this is one of the most difficult things for us to understand completely. We know men came by faith way back in the history of mankind. Somehow God makes sure the message goes out. When the Bible says God said thus and so to David, for example, it never says they heard with their ears. (But whoever had heard passed it on.) I believe our conscience speaks to us. We feel guilt, we get ideas and thoughts. If the thoughts are right and not our own, they have to be the Lord's. One of those mysterys we're left to ponder, I guess. After Jesus came and the gospel message was written down, we, as members of His body are to spread the good news.

 

[glorydaz]

sbg57-----We have established that, but that work did not save anyone. If Christ work alone saved everyone He died for, then they would have been saved by His work alone before they did anytrhing, before they believed. But you do not believe that do you ?

Grubal----First of all, Christ died for a "world" of lost sinners... In order to "receive" the benefits" of God's Grace, we "must" place "our faith" in Christ as Lord and Savior. Faith is an essential and non-negotiable "precursor" to salvation...

AMEN, BROTHER.

 

[mythunderstood]

Being "educated in Christianity" means you've been taught by men and not by God. The pharisees were very well educated in the law, but they were only clean on the outside, and had no understanding in spiritual things.

I agree. I never said otherwise. 30+ years and god never once convicted (convinced) me via the holy spirit. That explains why I have no belief in "him". Sure, I "thought" I believed for many years, but later realized that it was just wishful thinking, and that I was just hoping for something that wasn't there.

You would be surprised how many people think (like I did) that they can just "choose" to believe in god (without ever having been convicted). However, one cannot just "will" or "choose" belief. One cannot truly believe in something by just "choosing" to. True belief comes from understanding and being convinced of something's truth. One can only come to understanding and (true) belief via the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, it is just an intellectual "assent" or "belief."

Many people (wrongly) think that some of the following constitutes a (saving)belief in god:

• "Believing" in god because they "want" it to be true
• "Believing" in god because they were "taught" to believe that way
• "Believing" in god, because "how else can you explain such and such....?"
• "Believing" in god because it helps to keep them more focused away from bad things (addiction, alcoholism)
• "Believing" in god because it is a morally good thing to do

Without the holy spirit regenerating a person to bring them to faith, none of the above "counts" as having a belief/faith in god. The "elect" are those who are brought to a true belief/faith via the holy spirit (not of themselves) resulting in their becoming a "new" regenerated being. Many "intellectual believers" who think they can just choose to believe in god out of their own will, will surprisingly find out later that they had a false (not "true") belief when god tells them to "depart, I never knew you." Narrow is the gate.....

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory

No

Glory admits that Christ death in and of itself did not save anyone !

I consider that blasphemy . I serve a different Christ than he. The Christ I serve His death saved those He died for, and after that, they believed in Him. He saved them from their sins to include unbelief.

 

[savedbygrace57]

gb

First of all, Christ died for a "world" of lost sinners

For the third or fourth time, we have eastablished that Christ died for sin. I am asking you , do you believe that Christ's death alone, what He did, does that save sinners He died for, apart from them doing anything ! Yes or No.. If its any consolation, glory said no, that it does not.

 

[reba]

Personally, I think this is one of the most difficult things for us to understand completely. We know men came by faith way back in the history of mankind. Somehow God makes sure the message goes out. When the Bible says God said thus and so to David, for example, it never says they heard with their ears. (But whoever had heard passed it on.) I believe our conscience speaks to us. We feel guilt, we get ideas and thoughts. If the thoughts are right and not our own, they have to be the Lord's. One of those mysterys we're left to ponder, I guess. After Jesus came and the gospel message was written down, we, as members of His body are to spread the good news.

A lot of words Daz but i did not read an answer to the question asked. So i ask again.

Originally Posted by glorydaz




Christ does have to be lifted up somehow. God talked to Cain and Abel, Noah and Abraham.
We know the Judge of the whole earth does right. Before the gospel in the New Testament, the prophets lifted up the Messiah in all they preached and wrote. God has always gotten His message of salvation out.

Does God need man to lift up Christ?

 

[jasoncran]

i will answer no, why do the arminists here believe that god calls them to do work and yet deny that fact God planned all this out long ago?

makes no sense. and i am very much arminists but i do know that god works all thngs out. he already knows what we are going to do.

so when things go wrong in the church is God like ? oh my? what to do. jesus what should we do?

 

[glorydaz]

A lot of words Daz but i did not read an answer to the question asked. So i ask again.


Does God need man to lift up Christ?

You'll have to excuse me. I didn't know we needed to keep our answers brief.

I thought I'd made it clear by what I'd written.

No, but God does use man to lift up Christ through the preaching of the gospel.

 

[reba]

No, but God does use man to lift up Christ through the preaching of the gospel.

So you say God's salvation can go forth with out man.


I am not asking trick questions at least i dont think they are. I did not ask you to keep your answer brief. I am simple and direct.



I hope you had a great time playing Yatzee! Grand kids are great.