Jesus. The Word, Power and Wisdom of God

[Randy]

The Ancient of Days is the everlasting Father” of Isa_9:6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. AND THEY CALLED HIS NAME JESUS.

Jamieson-Fawcet-Brown continue:

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (THIS IS JESUS)

wheels — as Oriental thrones move on wheels. Like the rapid flame, God’s judgments are most swift in falling where He wills them (Eze_1:15, Eze_1:16). The judgment here is not the last judgment, for then there will be no beast, and heaven and earth shall have passed away; but it is that on Antichrist (the last development of the fourth kingdom), typical of the last judgment when: Christ will come to substitute the millennial kingdom of glory for that of the cross (Rev_17:12-14; Rev_19:15-21). (THIS IS JESUS)


Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. (THIS IS JESUS. HE IS GOD OVER ALL)


Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS (THIS IS JESUS). Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

JESUS SAID: Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. (Revelation 2:16 KJV)

Then who gets this glory?
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Your not orthodox are you.? That's ok with me I'm just trying to understand your beliefs. You seem to be as a defined below. Does this movement fit your beliefs?

Oneness Pentecostalism (also known as Apostolic, Jesus' Name Pentecostalism, or the Jesus Only movement) is a nontrinitarian religious movement within the Protestant Christian family of churches known as Pentecostalism.[1][2][3] It derives its distinctive name from its teaching on the Godhead, which is popularly referred to as the Oneness doctrine, a form of Modalistic Monarchianism.[4][5][6] This doctrine states that there is one God, a singular divine spirit with no distinction of persons who manifests himself in many ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.[7][8][9] This stands in sharp contrast to the doctrine of three distinct and eternal persons posited by Trinitarian theology.[10][11]

 

[Cooper]

Then who gets this glory?
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Your not orthodox are you.? That's ok with me I'm just trying to understand your beliefs. You seem to be as a defined below. Does this movement fit your beliefs?

Oneness Pentecostalism (also known as Apostolic, Jesus' Name Pentecostalism, or the Jesus Only movement) is a nontrinitarian religious movement within the Protestant Christian family of churches known as Pentecostalism.[1][2][3] It derives its distinctive name from its teaching on the Godhead, which is popularly referred to as the Oneness doctrine, a form of Modalistic Monarchianism.[4][5][6] This doctrine states that there is one God, a singular divine spirit with no distinction of persons who manifests himself in many ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.[7][8][9] This stands in sharp contrast to the doctrine of three distinct and eternal persons posited by Trinitarian theology.[10][11]

I am not oneness. Try Anglican. I was there this morning in a Bible study group. Please try to understand that Jesus is God with us in the likeness of man and remember no man can raise the dead, heal the sick, still the waves or feed a multitude from five loaves and to fishes.

 

[Cooper]

Then who is the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven lead into the presence of the Ancient of Days if your presenting now the one on the throne as Jesus not a false God?
Daniel 7
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Jesus confirms that Daniel’s prophesy is about Him.
In Daniel chapter 7v13 we read, “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven” -
Jesus confirmed this by saying of himself in Mat 24:30, “then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

In the next verse, we read v14 “And there was given him dominion”
Jesus again confirmed he was the one in Daniel’s vision when he said in Mat_28:18 “All power is given unto me in heaven and in the earth."

 

[Randy]

I am not oneness. Try Anglican.

But do you think the Ancient of days on the throne stated in Daniel 7 is Jesus or the Father?

 

[Cooper]

But do you think the Ancient of days on the throne stated in Daniel 7 is Jesus or the Father?

In everything I do, I like to read what the experts say. What people get is not my opinion, but the opinion of scholars. So to answer your question I turned to four such people and this is what they say.

The Ancient of days - God Almighty; and this is the only place in the sacred writings where God the Father is represented in a human form. (Adam Clarke)

Ancient of days — “The everlasting Father” (Isa_9:6). HE is the Judge here, as THE SON does not judge in His own cause, and it is His cause which is the one at issue with Antichrist. (Jamieson-Faussett-Brown)

Because I believe in one omnipresent God, I believe Jesus is the I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the likeness of man. So whether the Ancient of Days is Father or Son makes no difference because at creation, Jesus was the Word who created the heaven and the earth. (John 1:14)

 

[Cooper]

Let me also remind you that Christ is God’s power and God’s wisdom. (1Co 1:24)

 

[Randy]

In everything I do, I like to read what the experts say. What people get is not my opinion, but the opinion of scholars. So to answer your question I turned to four such people and this is what they say.

The Ancient of days - God Almighty; and this is the only place in the sacred writings where God the Father is represented in a human form. (Adam Clarke)

Ancient of days — “The everlasting Father” (Isa_9:6). HE is the Judge here, as THE SON does not judge in His own cause, and it is His cause which is the one at issue with Antichrist. (Jamieson-Faussett-Brown)

Because I believe in one omnipresent God, I believe Jesus is the I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the likeness of man. So whether the Ancient of Days is Father or Son makes no difference because at creation, Jesus was the Word who created the heaven and the earth. (John 1:14)

This is why I asked you if you were oneness because you don't seem to state a belief in 3 distinct persons in ONE God.

Daniel 7:9 can't be the person of Jesus because Jesus is the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven who is lead into the presence of the ancient of days.

But I didn't mean to go this far you just surprised me your false God reply in regard to Daniel 7:9.

 

[Cooper]

This is why I asked you if you were oneness because you don't seem to state a belief in 3 distinct persons in ONE God.

Daniel 7:9 can't be the person of Jesus because Jesus is the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven who is lead into the presence of the ancient of days.

But I didn't mean to go this far you just surprised me your false God reply in regard to Daniel 7:9.

I believe in One omnipresent God, manifested in three persons who existed from the foundation of the earth and revealed himself to us in body, soul, and spirit, who by his Word created the heavens and the earth. I might have that for my signature.

 

[Cooper]

Hope this helps

Which Old Testament Book Did Jesus Quote From
blog.biblia.com

Jesus quoted from:
Exodus 3:6.............Matthew 22:32; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37
20:12-16.................Matthew 15:14; 19:18, 19; Mark 7:10; 10:19; Luke 18:20
21:24......................Matthew 5:38


Isaiah 6:9-10.........Matthew 13:14, 15; Mark 4:12; Luke 8:10
56:7.......................Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:46
29:13.....................Matthew 15:8, 9; Mark 7:6, 7
5:1.........................Matthew 21:33; Mark 12:1; Luke 20:9
53:12.....................Luke 22:37
54:13.....................John 6:45
61:1, 2...................Matthew 11:5; Luke 4:18, 19; 7:22

Deuteronomy
6:5........................Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:29-33; Luke 10:27
24:1-3...................Matthew 5:31; 19:7; Mark 10:4
19:15....................Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; Luke 4:4, 8, 12

Psalms
82:2; 110:1...........Matthew 21:21:16; 22:44; Mark 12:36; 14:62; Luke 20:42, 43
22:1......................Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34
31:5......................Luke 23:46
35:19; 69:4..........John 15:25
41:9.....................John 13:18
78:24...................John 6:31
82:6.....................John 10:34
110:1...................Matthew 26:64
118:22, 23...........Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17
118:26.................Matthew 23:39; Luke 13:35

THANK YOU. I shall print all the scriptures in full and save it to the internet with the rest of my notes. May God bless his word.

 

[Cooper]

This is why I asked you if you were oneness because you don't seem to state a belief in 3 distinct persons in ONE God.

Daniel 7:9 can't be the person of Jesus because Jesus is the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven who is lead into the presence of the ancient of days.

But I didn't mean to go this far you just surprised me your false God reply in regard to Daniel 7:9.

The best explanation of Jesus I have seen was based on a real-life documentary TV program called “Under Cover Boss” in which a new employee began work in a large Detroit car-making factory.

The new starter on the factory floor was in fact, Henry Ford, but nobody would have guessed it. He wore a boiler suit and changed his name to John Doe. Nonetheless, John Doe and Henry Ford were one and the same even though nobody would have thought it. He was in constant communication with head office. What John Doe did, Henry Ford did, and John Doe's spirit and devotion to his work influenced the whole company from the boardroom down to the shop floor. He held the entire enterprise in His hand. Then rumours began to circulate regarding John Doe’s real identity, but unsurprisingly, hardly anyone believed the one they ate and drank with was Henry Ford in person. The evidence was there, but they either did not pick up on it, or they thought it extremely unlikely, but as we know, all things are possible with God, and there were some who discovered the truth. Those who trust and believe will find, their doubts and fears fading away as they walk and talk with Jesus all the days of their life. God bless.

 

[Randy]

The best explanation of Jesus I have seen was based on a real-life documentary TV program called “Under Cover Boss” in which a new employee began work in a large Detroit car-making factory.

The new starter on the factory floor was in fact, Henry Ford, but nobody would have guessed it. He wore a boiler suit and changed his name to John Doe. Nonetheless, John Doe and Henry Ford were one and the same even though nobody would have thought it. He was in constant communication with head office. What John Doe did, Henry Ford did, and John Doe's spirit and devotion to his work influenced the whole company from the boardroom down to the shop floor. He held the entire enterprise in His hand. Then rumours began to circulate regarding John Doe’s real identity, but unsurprisingly, hardly anyone believed the one they ate and drank with was Henry Ford in person. The evidence was there, but they either did not pick up on it, or they thought it extremely unlikely, but as we know, all things are possible with God, and there were some who discovered the truth. Those who trust and believe will find, their doubts and fears fading away as they walk and talk with Jesus all the days of their life. God bless.

In regard to the 3 persons. Jesus calls the Father His God and Father but not the Spirit. The Father has no God and states He is Jesus's God and Jesus is His Son. The Spirit speaks only what He hears not on His own.
The apostles identify the God of their ancestors as the Father who exalted Jesus to His right hand and appointed Jesus as prince and savior. The one on the throne in Rev and Daniel is the Father. The honor given in Rev is to the one on the throne and to His lamb with no mention of the Spirit in that regard.

Jesus never testified I am the Lord your God. He did testify that the Father was our God. He did state He was Gods Son. He did testify the works He performed show He and the Father are one. He did explain that oneness. The Father in Him and He in us. He did testify He lives by the Father. He did state the Father is the only true God.

If I wanted to know the truth of the matter it wouldn't be from you tube video's or tv shows I would just ask the one I believe in and love which I did a long time ago.

I'm tired of talking about the trinity.

I will hold to this statement as it is my understanding. Like the testimony by the host of heaven no mention of the Spirit in that regard

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Since I have stated my understanding of who Jesus is comes from above it will never change no matter how many don't like my answers. I don't really care if people believe me or not. It certainly would be easier on me to testify to a Jesus who has no beginning and a Jesus of Nazareth who had a human spirit but I know different from the understanding given from above and that would be me stating a lie. I prefer to use truth.

The same God, the Father, who spoke through the prophets in the past in these last days has spoken to us by His Son.
As Jesus has testified He did not speak on His own and it wasn't His message but it was the One living in Him doing His works. So in that regard Jesus is the word of the Father and that oneness Jesus spoke of comes into the light. Those who reject Jesus also reject the Father. Those who love Jesus are loved by the Father.

You can not replace Jesus's God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father, with just Jesus. If you seek to add Him your free to do so. I'm not going to debate the trinity further but my testimony will not change ever. God is my Father. Jesus is my Lord. It is the Fathers Deity in Jesus. And that Deity in Jesus has been shown to listen to Jesus's will and carry out that will and for all intensive purposes in that context Jesus is God and all that the Father is. But the Deity that was pleased to dwell in Jesus is the only "true" God.

 

[Cooper]

In regard to the 3 persons. Jesus calls the Father His God and Father but not the Spirit. The Father has no God and states He is Jesus's God and Jesus is His Son. The Spirit speaks only what He hears not on His own.
The apostles identify the God of their ancestors as the Father who exalted Jesus to His right hand and appointed Jesus as prince and savior. The one on the throne in Rev and Daniel is the Father. The honor given in Rev is to the one on the throne and to His lamb with no mention of the Spirit in that regard.

Jesus never testified I am the Lord your God. He did testify that the Father was our God. He did state He was Gods Son. He did testify the works He performed show He and the Father are one. He did explain that oneness. The Father in Him and He in us. He did testify He lives by the Father. He did state the Father is the only true God.

If I wanted to know the truth of the matter it wouldn't be from you tube video's or tv shows I would just ask the one I believe in and love which I did a long time ago.

I'm tired of talking about the trinity.

I will hold to this statement as it is my understanding. Like the testimony by the host of heaven no mention of the Spirit in that regard

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Since I have stated my understanding of who Jesus is comes from above it will never change no matter how many don't like my answers. I don't really care if people believe me or not. It certainly would be easier on me to testify to a Jesus who has no beginning and a Jesus of Nazareth who had a human spirit but I know different from the understanding given from above and that would be me stating a lie. I prefer to use truth.

The same God, the Father, who spoke through the prophets in the past in these last days has spoken to us by His Son.
As Jesus has testified He did not speak on His own and it wasn't His message but it was the One living in Him doing His works. So in that regard Jesus is the word of the Father and that oneness Jesus spoke of comes into the light. Those who reject Jesus also reject the Father. Those who love Jesus are loved by the Father.

You can not replace Jesus's God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father, with just Jesus. If you seek to add Him your free to do so. I'm not going to debate the trinity further but my testimony will not change ever. God is my Father. Jesus is my Lord. It is the Fathers Deity in Jesus. And that Deity in Jesus has been shown to listen to Jesus's will and carry out that will and for all intensive purposes in that context Jesus is God and all that the Father is. But the Deity that was pleased to dwell in Jesus is the only "true" God.

Not replace, include.

 

[for_his_glory]

The best explanation of Jesus I have seen was based on a real-life documentary TV program called “Under Cover Boss” in which a new employee began work in a large Detroit car-making factory.

The new starter on the factory floor was in fact, Henry Ford, but nobody would have guessed it. He wore a boiler suit and changed his name to John Doe. Nonetheless, John Doe and Henry Ford were one and the same even though nobody would have thought it. He was in constant communication with head office. What John Doe did, Henry Ford did, and John Doe's spirit and devotion to his work influenced the whole company from the boardroom down to the shop floor. He held the entire enterprise in His hand. Then rumours began to circulate regarding John Doe’s real identity, but unsurprisingly, hardly anyone believed the one they ate and drank with was Henry Ford in person. The evidence was there, but they either did not pick up on it, or they thought it extremely unlikely, but as we know, all things are possible with God, and there were some who discovered the truth. Those who trust and believe will find, their doubts and fears fading away as they walk and talk with Jesus all the days of their life. God bless.

I would think if one could not explain who Jesus is it would be because they do not know Him or have a personal relationship with Him.

 

[Randy]

Not replace, include.

Well that's good for if you read the NT specifically revelation you will find the Father hasn't given His glory away. He is still on the throne worshipped by the host of heaven as their God . So I must be truthful to state the Father is my God.
Its not just who Jesus is its the relationship between Father and Son and Spirit that causes many to ask. "Can anyone explain the trinity"

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

To the Father alone, the one on the throne, in this context:
Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”


To the lamb alone in this context
You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign b on the earth.”

Found worthy because Jesus was slain and with His blood purchased persons from the whole world to serve God.
His God and the Hosts of Heaven God and my God

Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”

I believe this captures the truth of the matter and its God meaning Father alone as in heaven
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

It was God who created through Jesus by Jesus and for Jesus all things. The one who appointed Jesus as Lord, prince, and savior and exalted Him to His right hand.

One God the Father, One Lord Jesus Christ

Father=>Pour out My Spirit
Jesus=>Another advocate

When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

Father to Jesus=>Your God
Jesus to Father=> My God

Anything Divine that Jesus does by His will is performed by the Deity of the Father living in Him. Which includes the creation. Hence God created through Him. Jesus didn't testify the works He performed state He is God. Jesus stated the works He performed testify He and the Father are one as in the Father living in Him.

So if people want to find fault in me because I state Jesus is my Lord and not my God so be it.
But in this there is no fault=> The Father is my God.
And in these words there is no fault as Jesus Himself stated them in regard to the Father alone=>The only true God

 

[Cooper]

Well that's good for if you read the NT specifically revelation you will find the Father hasn't given His glory away. He is still on the throne worshipped by the host of heaven as their God . So I must be truthful to state the Father is my God.
Its not just who Jesus is its the relationship between Father and Son and Spirit that causes many to ask. "Can anyone explain the trinity"

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

To the Father alone, the one on the throne, in this context:
Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”


To the lamb alone in this context
You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign b on the earth.”

Found worthy because Jesus was slain and with His blood purchased persons from the whole world to serve God.
His God and the Hosts of Heaven God and my God

Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”

I believe this captures the truth of the matter and its God meaning Father alone as in heaven
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

It was God who created through Jesus by Jesus and for Jesus all things. The one who appointed Jesus as Lord, prince, and savior and exalted Him to His right hand.

One God the Father, One Lord Jesus Christ

Father=>Pour out My Spirit
Jesus=>Another advocate

When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

Father to Jesus=>Your God
Jesus to Father=> My God

Anything Divine that Jesus does by His will is performed by the Deity of the Father living in Him. Which includes the creation. Hence God created through Him. Jesus didn't testify the works He performed state He is God. Jesus stated the works He performed testify He and the Father are one as in the Father living in Him.

So if people want to find fault in me because I state Jesus is my Lord and not my God so be it.
But in this there is no fault=> The Father is my God.
And in these words there is no fault as Jesus Himself stated them in regard to the Father alone=>The only true God

I have not read your entire post, they are the words of man, good as they may be. But first, let us sort out the relationship between Father and Son which is the cause of your difficulties. Let me tell you, that before Jesus came among us, he was God’s power and God’s wisdom. See 1Cor 1:24; 1Cor 1:30 and 1Co 1:24 to see who God's power and wisdom is.

Then go to Proverbs chapter 8 and as you read the whole chapter beginning at verse 1 remind yourself that wisdom and power are neuter. Then, when you get to verse 15 it will become clear who or what God's wisdom and power is.

Do that, and then come back and tell me who God's wisdom and power is.

Then I may study the rest of your post depending on your response.

 

[Randy]

I have not read your entire post, they are the words of man, good as they may be. But first, let us sort out the relationship between Father and Son which is the cause of your difficulties. Let me tell you, that before Jesus came among us, he was God’s power and God’s wisdom. See 1Cor 1:24; 1Cor 1:30 and 1Co 1:24 to see who God's power and wisdom is.

Then go to Proverbs chapter 8 and as you read the whole chapter beginning at verse 1 remind yourself that wisdom and power are neuter. Then, when you get to verse 15 it will become clear who or what God's wisdom and power is.

Do that, and then come back and tell me who God's wisdom and power is.

Then I may study the rest of your post depending on your response.

The Fathers power and the Fathers wisdom. I believe and state Jesus is all that the Father is.
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[Cooper]

The Father's power and the Father's wisdom. I believe and state Jesus is all that the Father is.
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Yes. The Father draws us. He sent Jesus who is the power of God and the wisdom of God, down from heaven’s glory and Jesus will raise them up at the last day. (The One Triune God)

1) The Father draws people.
2) The Father sent Jesus down from heavens glory (John 3:13)
3) Jesus is the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Cor 1:24)
3) Jesus, (God with us) will raise us up at the last day.

Jesus is the living bread which came down from heaven's glory. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world." (John 6:5)

Praise Him from whom all blessings flow.

I see the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the ONE omnipresent God. Invisible in heaven, visible on earth and the invisible Holy Spirit in the hearts of those people who invite Him in.

May God bless, and thank you.

 

[for_his_glory]

1. God is Spirit, John 4:24, not flesh and blood and in the OT either spoke directly to the prophets or by angels and also various objects like a burning bush or an ass for example. Between the OT and NT God was silent towards Israel as when they returned to Israel from the Babylonian captivity they came back as merchants and not shepherds as they were disobedient to God going after other gods, Book of Malachi.

2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21

3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awakenings in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15

Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.

Jesus being the right arm of God who knew no sin. Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Gods Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and teach us. John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Just like the word Trinity you are not going to find the exact words "God Holy Spirit" written in scripture, but scripture explains there is only one God, not three, as God exist in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are each God, meaning equal in power, nature and attributes and worthy of the same praise. This doesn't mean there are three gods as there is only one true God. It also doesn't mean that these are different forms of God as each is its own person. It's hard to wrap our heads around this as we can not fully understand God.

The Holy Spirit appears in both the OT and NT. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirt of God was hovering over the waters. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image. The word "us" means God, Son Jesus and Holy Spirit (Trinity=3) all being before the creation of the world.

The Holy Spirit has power and emotions and is active among His people. Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit (God Holy Spirit). Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, (God Holy Spirit). Now under the dispensation of God's grace we have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we are all one in Him and He in us through that of the Spiritual rebirth from above, John 3:5-7; Acts chapter 2; 1 John 4:12-17.


Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8

Scriptures that refer the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

 

[Randy]

Yes. The Father draws us. He sent Jesus who is the power of God and the wisdom of God, down from heaven’s glory and Jesus will raise them up at the last day. (The One Triune God)

1) The Father draws people.
2) The Father sent Jesus down from heavens glory (John 3:13)
3) Jesus is the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Cor 1:24)
3) Jesus, (God with us) will raise us up at the last day.

Jesus is the living bread which came down from heaven's glory. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world." (John 6:5)

Praise Him from whom all blessings flow.

I see the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the ONE omnipresent God. Invisible in heaven, visible on earth and the invisible Holy Spirit in the hearts of those people who invite Him in.

May God bless, and thank you.

My point-Those who GOD calls, as in the Father-no one goes to Jesus unless enabled by the Father
Christ the power of God as in the Father
Christ the wisdom of God as in the Father
Paul is not nor did He ever use God to mean God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit
"Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"

nether did the writer of Hebrews
The Son is the reflection of Gods Glory
And the exact imprint of Gods very being -again God as in the Father

Jesus is the image of the invisible God - God as in the Father

How is that so if the Father is the only true God and why is Jesus called God?
For in Him (Jesus) it did please the fullness to dwell
as in the Father
For in him all the fullness [of God] was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross.

The Deity or fulness of God that dwells in Jesus is the Father -so Jesus is all the Father is -the power and wisdom of the Father or a Son who is called Mighty God. Apart from that Deity Jesus could do nothing Divine. By that Deity Jesus is as the Father Himself and one with the Father and the Divine works performed by Jesus testify He and the Father are one because apart from the Father Jesus could not do those works. Nicodemus and others knew God was with Jesus because of the signs Jesus performed.

I believe the one on the throne in heaven is the only true God and the one who He exalted to His right hand as prince and savior is the Lord Christ His Firstborn Son

I believe the Holy Spirit or Spirit of truth or the eternal Spirit is the very Spirit of my heavenly Father. The Spirit of the only true God as in the Father.
He states so - In the last days I will pour out my Spirit....
Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
Once Jesus stated so(matt 10:20) otherwise Jesus spoke of that Spirit as another not His own
for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

First it states the fullness was pleased to dwell in Jesus them it follows God was pleased to reconcile to Himself all things whether in heaven or earth by making peace through the blood on the cross. So the one who came down from heaven had the fullness of God in Him and that is living bread that one may eat and live forever. And that Deity in Jesus is the light to mankind, (God with us), and all the power of Satan and Gods enemies, (darkness) can not overcome it.

So I'll stay with this
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

And grace peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits a before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

So I will end here as neither one of us has moved from our understanding. But again understand this I believe all the fullness of the Fathers Deity dwells in Jesus and Jesus is all that the Father is for by that Deity in Christ He is as the Father Himself. Jesus wills that Deity hears and acts. And by that Deity all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are also hidden in Christ. And in that manner they are one. I do consider it lawful to call Jesus God. For as I see it the Father Himself was pleased to give Jesus that name and He was the one who was pleased to have the fullness to dwell in Christ.

 

[Cooper]

My point-Those who GOD calls, as in the Father-no one goes to Jesus unless enabled by the Father
Christ the power of God as in the Father
Christ the wisdom of God as in the Father
Paul is not nor did He ever use God to mean God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit
"Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"

nether did the writer of Hebrews
The Son is the reflection of Gods Glory
And the exact imprint of Gods very being -again God as in the Father

Jesus is the image of the invisible God - God as in the Father

How is that so if the Father is the only true God and why is Jesus called God?
For in Him (Jesus) it did please the fullness to dwell
as in the Father
For in him all the fullness [of God] was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross.

The Deity or fulness of God that dwells in Jesus is the Father -so Jesus is all the Father is -the power and wisdom of the Father or a Son who is called Mighty God. Apart from that Deity Jesus could do nothing Divine. By that Deity Jesus is as the Father Himself and one with the Father and the Divine works performed by Jesus testify He and the Father are one because apart from the Father Jesus could not do those works. Nicodemus and others knew God was with Jesus because of the signs Jesus performed.

I believe the one on the throne in heaven is the only true God and the one who He exalted to His right hand as prince and savior is the Lord Christ His Firstborn Son

I believe the Holy Spirit or Spirit of truth or the eternal Spirit is the very Spirit of my heavenly Father. The Spirit of the only true God as in the Father.
He states so - In the last days I will pour out my Spirit....
Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
Once Jesus stated so(matt 10:20) otherwise Jesus spoke of that Spirit as another not His own
for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

First it states the fullness was pleased to dwell in Jesus them it follows God was pleased to reconcile to Himself all things whether in heaven or earth by making peace through the blood on the cross. So the one who came down from heaven had the fullness of God in Him and that is living bread that one may eat and live forever. And that Deity in Jesus is the light to mankind, (God with us), and all the power of Satan and Gods enemies, (darkness) can not overcome it.

So I'll stay with this
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

And grace peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits a before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

So I will end here as neither one of us has moved from our understanding. But again understand this I believe all the fullness of the Fathers Deity dwells in Jesus and Jesus is all that the Father is for by that Deity in Christ He is as the Father Himself. Jesus wills that Deity hears and acts. And by that Deity all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are also hidden in Christ. And in that manner they are one. I do consider it lawful to call Jesus God. For as I see it the Father Himself was pleased to give Jesus that name and He was the one who was pleased to have the fullness to dwell in Christ.

I Am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. (2) In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (4) And where I go you know, and the way you know.” (5) Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?” (6) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (7) If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” (8) Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” (9) Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? (10) Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you, I do not speak on My own authority, but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. (11) Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
John 14:1-11 NKJV