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Jesus was Muslim

Married at 6, consummated at 9

Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236: Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65: Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88: Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Dawud Book 41, Number 4915: Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Dawud Book 41, Number 4916: Narrated AbuUsamah: The tradition mentioned above (No. 4915) has also been transmitted by AbuUsamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: "With good fortune. " She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him.

How sick!

:o
 
Because of Mohammed there are 1.5 million people that pray to another God and denigh the Son of God!

There are 1.5 million who reject Jesus the only begotten Son of God!
 
We Dont pray to 'another' God, we pray to the God of Jesus, who spoke aramaic and the word for god in Aramaic is Allaha. Also the Hewbrew word for God is Ela or Elohim. Even if you were to say that Allah is not the true title of God, (which i would disagree on) then just because the name of God is different in another language, that doesnt make it a different God. When i think about God i dont think about his name, although i may use it, but i just think in my heart about a being that is divine who created everything and i dont necesserily have a distinct picture in my mind of what God looks like, because nobody knows that.

We dont deny the son of God (Remember Psalms Chapter 2, David is the son of God??) We deny that Jesus was begotten by God, because begetting is an animal act, it belongs to the lower animal fucntions of sex, and we are not to attribute such a thing to God, that God begets. We say that Jesus is the Son of God only in the sense that yes he was the righteous prophet Of God. There are many cases in the bible of God having sons, the title son of God was given to other people other than Jesus. In the Language of the Jew, it meant a righteous servant of God. Im sure you yourself do not believe that God literally had a son.

Oh and its 1.5 Billion Muslims, not 1.5 Million lol
 
Qasim said:
"...We deny that Jesus was begotten by God, because begetting is an animal act, it belongs to the lower animal fucntions of sex, and we are not to attribute such a thing to God, that God begets."

Gary: Again, that is yours (and Muhammad's) incorrect understanding of the concept.

Please read this; it will help you understand.

-CLICK HERE- Jesus - The Only Begotten Son of God

:)
 
"Say: ‘Oh people of the Scripture! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; That we associate no partners with him; That we erect not, from among ourselves lords and patrons other than God.’ If then they turn back, say: ‘Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to the will of God)."Quran 3:64
 
"...Adam, which was the son of God." (Luke 3:38)
"...Israel is My son, even My firstborn:" (Exodus 4:22)
"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (Jeremiah 31:9)
"...the Lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art My son: this day have I begotten thee." (Psalms 2:7)
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 18:14)
"Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.
He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever."
(1 Chronicles 22:10), (also 1 Chronicles 28:6)

are these begotten?
 
Just because Jesus did not have an earthly father, doesnt mean that the Heavenly father (God) is literally his dad , the heavenly father is the father of everyone!

In Matthew Jesus calls God Our Father and Your Father talking to his disciples and followers :

5:48 (Matthew): "You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is Perfect."

6:5 " " : You however, when you pray, go into your private room, and after shutting your door, pray to your father who is in secret; then your father who looks on in secret will repay you."

6:8 " " : " So do not make yourselves like them, for God your Father, knows what things you are needing before ever you ask him."

etc, etc Many others.
 
Re: quotes

reznwerks said:
You forgot to put that in quotations since you cut and pasted it. :microwave:
Back off Rez. There is NO rule stating one must put in quotes when pasting from another site. The important thing, which you seemed to miss, is that the link to said source is provided, which Gary did even though it was his own material.

Plus...one cannot cut and paste. You can only copy/paste. :-?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, going back a couple of pages, Jesus fullfillment of a Comforter (Holy Spirit or Ghost) was accomplished in the book of Acts. No need to be looking several hundred years later. This is just a feeble attempt to somehow include your prophet in our Scripture. Any link to the Arabic bloodline was left behind once Ishmael was taken out the picture, so to speak.
 
Re: quotes

Vic said:
[
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, going back a couple of pages, Jesus fullfillment of a Comforter (Holy Spirit or Ghost) was accomplished in the book of Acts. No need to be looking several hundred years later. This is just a feeble attempt to somehow include your prophet in our Scripture. Any link to the Arabic bloodline was left behind once Ishmael was taken out the picture, so to speak.
Sorry but the explanation does not hold water. Jesus said he would send a comforter. The Holy Spirit or Ghost was already here.
 
I pray to Yahweh--Not Allah!

I pray in the name of Jesus Christ!

Mohammed is a false prophet.
 
Sorry but the explanation does not hold water. Jesus said he would send a comforter. The Holy Spirit or Ghost was already here.

Thank you!

There are so many other arguments one can pull out that Prove that the comforter that Jesus was talking about was not the Holy Spirit, but a figure that is parallel to himself, i.e another human being. I will post these arguments sometime in the near future, or if you want just check out this link, just take 10 mins of your time to read it, you dont have to agree with it but at least it gives one the opportunity to see the full picture.


http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/ ... ch6_3.html

reznwerks are you Muslim?
 
From
http://www.jamaat.net/letters/proph.html

Theological interpretation (as you use) usually leaves an avenue for innumerable interpretations. If you look up the classical Hebrew, the verse of Solomon 5:16 reads

"Hikko Mamittadim Vikulo Mahamadimm,
Zehdudi Vezem Raai Benute Yapus Halam"

So the word is definetly Mahammadimm - not 'Machmad'
 
You are incorrect.

JESUS AND THE COMFORTER

Whenever Muslims seek to prove that Muhammad is foretold in the New Testament, they immediately appeal to the promise of Jesus that the "Comforter" would follow him and claim that this Comforter was Muhammad (particularly as in the Qur'an, Jesus is alleged to have foretold the coming of Muhammad in Surah 61.6 in similar language). Whereas the Revised Standard Version uses the word "Counsellor" rather than "Comforter", we shall use the word "Comforter" throughout this chapter because it is more familiar to the Muslims. The texts where the Comforter is mentioned by Jesus are:

  • "And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you".
    John 14:16-17.

    "But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you".
    John 14:26

    "But when the Comforter comes, whom I shall send you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me".
    John 15:26

    "Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you".
    John 16:7

It is generally alleged by Muslims that the Greek word "paracletos" (meaning Comforter, Counsellor, Advocate, etc., in effect, one who unites men to God) is not the original word but that Jesus in fact foretold the coming of Muhammad by name and that the translation of his name into Greek (or at least the meaning of his name in Greek) is "periklutos", that is, the "praised one".

There is not a shred of evidence in favour of the assertion that the original word was "periklutos". We have thousands of New Testament manuscripts pre-dating Islam and not one of these contains the word "periklutos". In view of the fact that Muslims are prone to levelling false allegations that Christians are regularly changing the Bible, it is rather intriguing to find that they have no scruples about doing this themselves when it suits them to do so. In any event a cursory reading of the texts where the word "paracletos" appears will show that this is the only word that suits the context as I will show in one instance later on in this chapter.

Some wiser Muslims admit that "paracletos" is correct, but they claim in any event that Muhammad was the Comforter whom Jesus was referring to. Let us briefly examine some of the texts in a truly exegetical manner to discover whether Muhammad is indeed the Comforter whose coming Jesus foretold.

It is quite obvious from the four texts quoted that Comforter, Holy Spirit, and Spirit of Truth are interchangeable terms and that Jesus is speaking of the same person in each instance. The one obvious fact that emerges is that the Comforter is a spirit. (The fact that Jesus always speaks of the Spirit in the masculine gender in no way suggests that the Comforter must be a man as some of the publications in the Bibliography suggest. God himself is always spoken of in both the Bible and the Qur'an in the masculine gender and God is spirit - John 4:24. In the same way Jesus always speaks of the Comforter as a spirit and not as a man).

If we apply sound exegesis to John 14:16-17 we shall discover no less than eight reasons why the Comforter cannot possibly be Muhammad.

1. "He will give YOU another Comforter".

Jesus promised his disciples that God would send the Comforter to them. He would send the Spirit of Truth to Peter, and to John, and to the rest of the disciples - not to Meccans, Medinans or Arabians.

2. "He will give you ANOTHER Comforter".

If, as Muslims allege, the original word was periklutos and that Christians changed it into paracletos, then the sentence would have read, "He will give you another praised one". This statement is both out of place in its context and devoid of support elsewhere in the Bible. Jesus is never called the "periklutos" in the Bible (the word appears nowhere in the Bible) so it is grossly unlikely that he would have said "He will give you another praised one" when he never used that title for himself. Worse still, as the Muslims allege that he actually foretold the coming of Muhammad by mentioning his name, the sentence in that case would have read "He will give you another Muhammad". The further the Muslims try to press the point, the more absurd it tends to become.

John 16:12-13 makes it clear that the word "paracletos" is obviously the correct one. The text reads: "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth". In other words, I have been your Comforter, your paracletos, and have many things to tell you, but I send the Spirit of Truth to you, another Comforter, another paracletos.

In 1 John 2:1 we read that Christians have an "advocate" with the Father, "Jesus Christ the Righteous", and the word translated "advocate" is paracletos in the Greek. So Jesus is our paracletos, our Comforter and advocate with the Father, and he promised to give his disciples another Comforter. It is therefore logical to find that Jesus promised another paracletos when he himself was described as the paracletos of his followers, but it is illogical to suggest that he would speak of "another periklutos" when the word was never used to describe him in the first place.

3. "To be with you FOREVER".

When Muhammad came he did not stay with his people forever but died in 632 AD and his tomb is in Medina where his body has lain for over 1300 years. Nevertheless Jesus said that the Comforter, once he had come, would never leave his disciples, but would be with them forever.

4. "The Spirit of Truth whom the world CANNOT receive".

The Qur'an says that Muhammad came as a universal messenger to men (Surah 34.28). If so, Jesus was not referring to Muhammad for he said that the world cannot receive the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth.

5. "You KNOW him".

It is quite obvious from this statement that the disciples knew the Spirit of Truth. As Muhammad was only born more than five hundred years later, it certainly could not be him. The next clause brings out just how the disciples knew him. At this stage we can see quite clearly that the Comforter is a spirit who was in the disciples' presence already.

6. "He dwells WITH you".

Where did the Comforter dwell with them? From various verses, especially John 1:32, we can see that the Spirit was in Jesus himself and so was with the disciples.

7. "He will be IN you".

Here the death-blow is dealt to the theory that Muhammad is the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit was in Jesus, so he would be in the disciples as well. The Greek word here is "en" and this means "right inside". So Jesus was in fact saying "he will be right inside you".

8. The last reason is really a re-emphasis of the first one. Do you notice how often Jesus addresses his own disciples when he speaks of the sphere of influence of the Comforter? "You know him ... he dwells with you ... he will be in you". Quite clearly the disciples were to anticipate the coming of the Comforter as a spirit who would come to them just after Jesus had left them. No other interpretation can possibly be drawn from this text. Only wishful thinking makes the Muslims allege that Muhammad was foretold by Jesus, but a practical interpretation of the texts destroys this possibility.

Let us read how the Spirit came to Jesus: "The Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form, as a dove" (Luke 3:22). We read that the Spirit, the Comforter, came to the disciples in a similar way just after the ascension of Jesus (as Jesus told them he would): "And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:3-4). He was with the disciples in the person of Jesus while he was still with them, and he was in the disciples from the day of Pentecost. We thus see the prediction Jesus made in John 14:17 duly fulfilled in the coming of the Holy Spirit.

Within only ten days after the ascension of Jesus, the disciples duly received the Comforter as he was promised to them by Jesus. He had told them to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, should come (Acts 1:4-8) as indeed he did while they were all together praying for his advent in the city. Muhammad is right out of this picture.

Moving on now to John 16:7 (quoted earlier), the whole meaning of this verse also becomes clear from the statement of Jesus, "I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now" (John 16:12). Jesus also said: "It is to your advantage that I go away" (John 16:7). The disciples could not bear his teaching now because they were ordinary men devoid of power to comprehend or apply what he said. The Spirit of Truth was indeed in Jesus, but was not yet in his disciples, so they were unable to follow the spiritual elements in his teaching. But after the ascension they received the Spirit and could now communicate and understand his teaching because the Spirit of Truth was in them as well. That is why Jesus said "it is to your advantage that I go away". This is made equally clear elsewhere in the Bible:

  • What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him, God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God.
    1 Corinthians 2:9-13.

Paul makes it plain that the Spirit had already been given and if it had not, it could not have been to any advantage to the disciples to be without Jesus once he had ascended to heaven.

So it is abundantly proved that Muhammad is not the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter, whose coming Jesus foretold. Who is the Comforter then? He is the very Spirit of the living God as can be seen from some of the quotations already given. On the day when the Comforter duly came upon the disciples, his coming was accompanied by a tremendous sound, "like the rush of a mighty wind" (Acts 2:2). When the Jews heard this, they rushed together to see what was happening. Peter declared to them all:

  • "This is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh' ".
    Acts 2:16-17

The Comforter, the Spirit of God, had come down on the disciples as Jesus had promised and was to be given to believing Christian men and women from every nation under the sun. But notice how Peter linked the coming of the Spirit with the ascension of Christ:

  • "This Jesus God raised up and of that we are all witnesses. Being therefore exacted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear".
    Acts 2:32-33

Clearly the coming of the Comforter was inseparably linked to the risen, ascended glory of Jesus in the highest place that heaven affords. The Comforter is also called "the Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9) and the reason is plain from what Jesus said:

1. "He will glorify me" (John 16:14).

2. "He will bear witness to me" (John 15:26).

3. "He will convince the world concerning sin because they do not believe in me" (John 16:8-9).

4. "He will take what is mine and declare it to you" (John 16:14).

5. "He will bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you" (John 14:26).

Quite obviously the great work of the Comforter is to bring people to Jesus, to make them see him as Saviour and Lord, and to draw them to him. The Comforter was given so that the glory of Jesus might be revealed to men and in men. A beautiful example of this is given by the Apostle John:

  • His disciples did not understand this at first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that this had been written of him and done to him.
    John 12:16

Without the Spirit, they had no understanding, but when they received the Spirit after Jesus was glorified, then they remembered as Jesus said they would. John illustrates this in this passage as well:

  • On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and proclaimed, 'If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink. He who believes in me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water'. Now this he said about the Spirit, which those who believed in him were to receive; for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
    John 7:37-39

As soon as Jesus was glorified the Spirit was given so that the glory of Jesus in heaven might become real to men here on earth. As Peter said (Acts 2:33), once Jesus was exalted at the right hand of God, the Spirit was freely given to his disciples.

Again Peter said, "The God of our fathers glorified Jesus" (Acts 3:13). We cannot see or comprehend this glory of Jesus here on earth (and Jesus himself said, "I do not receive glory from men" John 5:41), but he sent the Spirit so that we might behold this glory by the eye of faith. As Jesus himself said to his disciples of the Spirit:

  • "He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine, therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you".
    John 16:14-15

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and he is given to all true believers so that the glory of Jesus in heaven may become real to men on earth. John makes it plain how a man receives the Holy Spirit:

  • Now this he spoke about the Spirit, which those who BELIEVED in him were to receive.
    John 7:39

To receive the Comforter, the Spirit of God, one must believe in Jesus and surrender body and soul to him. Without the Spirit no one sees or believes in the glory of Christ, but for those who are his true followers and who are sanctified by the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:2), Peter says:

  • Without having seen him, you love him, though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with unutterable and exalted joy. As the outcome of your faith you obtain the salvation of your souls.
    1 Peter 1:8-9

The distinction between those who have received the Spirit and those who have not, those who have beheld the glory of Christ and those who have not, comes out very clearly as Peter continues to speak to his fellow-believers:

  • To you therefore who believe, he is precious, but for those who do not believe, 'The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner'.
    1 Peter 2:7

The Bible says much about the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, but the great and most handsome work of the Spirit is summed up in Jesus' words:
John said:
"HE WILL GLORIFY ME".
John 16:14
Although the Spirit had been at work in the world before the advent of Jesus Christ, and had indeed filled many of the great prophets and men of old with a longing for the coming Christ, he only finally united himself to men, and men to God, and indeed true believers to one another after the resurrection and ascension of Christ to heaven.

Jesus Christ spoke to his OWN disciples of the coming of the Comforter because the Spirit was sent down to comfort and regenerate all true believers in Jesus. This is one of the most significant and consistent elements of the teaching of Jesus about the Comforter. The prime purpose of the coming of the Comforter - immediately after the ascension of Jesus - was to draw men to him so that those who are influenced by the work of the Comforter will therefore become followers of Jesus. It is further evidence against the theory that Muhammad was the Comforter for, whereas the Comforter would not speak of himself but only of Jesus, Muhammad drew attention away from Jesus to himself, describing himself as the ultimate apostle of God to be followed and obeyed. The Comforter was never to do a thing like this. Jesus made it plain that the Comforter would draw the attention and faith of all men to himself and would glorify him before the eyes of faith of true believers as the Lord of glory in heaven.

After Jesus Christ had ascended to heaven to be glorified at the right hand of God above all the angels and departed saints, the Comforter came immediately upon his disciples to make this glory real to them and through them to spread it all over the world. For Jesus Christ is the very image of the Father's glory. In him are all things united, whether in heaven or on earth. He is the climax of God's plan for the fulness of time. He is the beginning and the end of all God's gracious work in all ages - for all the salvation and glory that God has prepared for those who love him are vested in Jesus.

The Comforter came to give us a foretaste of this glory. He came to make the resplendent glory of Jesus real to those who follow him. As Moses encouraged his people to look forward to the prophet who would be like him, who would mediate a new covenant to save all who truly believe, so the Comforter encourages Christ's followers in this age to look up to the risen, ascended, Lord Jesus Christ who sits on the throne of God in eternal glory above the heavens.

:)

Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchris ... tml#Part_3

:wink:
 
Qasim786 said:
We deny that Jesus was begotten by God, because begetting is an animal act, it belongs to the lower animal fucntions of sex, and we are not to attribute such a thing to God, that God begets.


Just because Jesus did not have an earthly father, doesnt mean that the Heavenly father (God) is literally his dad , the heavenly father is the father of everyone!


What? Terms like "Father" and "Son" obviously aren't used by Christianity in a literal sense with regard to the Trinity, that would be a complete absurdity.
 
God, His Word, and the Qur'an in Islam
Ernest N. Hahn

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Hahn/god_ ... _quran.htm


"Generally the difficulties which Muslims detect in Christian thought about the person of the Messiah and the Trinity have distinct analogies within Muslim thought about God, His Word, the Qur'an and their interrelationship, analogies which they generally do not know or understand, or ignore."
 
I was going to post a response until I read some of Gary's somewhat long but great refutation of Rez and Qasim. I don't see how anyone could think that the Comforter could be other than the Holy Spirit.

I think that Qasim fails to understand that the Bible is a story and as such, one must take into account all the verses on a given subject to get a full understanding. Context is everything when doing biblical interpretation.
 
Re: quotes

reznwerks said:
Sorry but the explanation does not hold water. Jesus said he would send a comforter. The Holy Spirit or Ghost was already here.


John 7:39 (American Standard Version)


"But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified."


This may perhaps suggest otherwise.
 
Reference John 3:16

The Christian Catacism is that they use the term 'Jesus is the Only BEGOTTEN son of God, BEGOTTEN not made.' Could you explain to me what you are trying to emphasize when you say 'Begotten, not made.' What does this mean? What does the term to beget mean? We agree that the phrase Son of God is not literal, but then what makes Jesus unique that the term son of God is now only accosiated with Jesus. We are all Sons of God. I agree he is a unique son because he was sinless, but what makes him divine or the same as God, why cant he just be an important prophet, which he is in Islam, held high in honour but not so high that we attribute to him that which can only be attributed to God the creator of the worlds.
 
I think that Qasim fails to understand that the Bible is a story and as such, one must take into account all the verses on a given subject to get a full understanding. Context is everything when doing biblical interpretation.

I agree very much that taking into account the whole context is very important.

If i may, i would like to post something on here which i think takes into account the whole context. Its quite long and detailed therefore it will have to be read with understanding and an unbiased mind to recover its true significance.
 
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