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Jesus was Muslim

Jesus vs Muhammad

Qasim786 said:
He (Jesus) lived his life as a muslim should today.... he behaved in the same way a Muslim does...
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Gary: Absolute rubbish. Let us compare Muhammad to Jesus and it is VERY easy to see that they were opposites.

Ten Differences between Jesus and Muhammad

(1) Killing and robbing
  • Jesus never killed or robbed anyone "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44)
    Muhammad clearly killed and robbed people in the name of Allah according to the Quran (Rodwell Sura 47:4) "When you encounter the infidels STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS till ye have made a great slaughter among them"
(2) Adultery
  • Jesus never took any man's wife.
    Muhammad did. When Muhammad wanted Zaid's (his adopted son) wife Muhammad conveniently got this revelation from Allah commanding Zaid to give up his wife to Muhammad - and that there was no evil in a father-in-law taking his daughter-in-law away from his own adopted son! Read it for yourselves. Sura 33:36-38
(3) Resurrection
  • Jesus rose from the grave - He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:6-7)
    Muhammad is still in his grave.
(4) Atonement
  • When Jesus died, he died for the sins of the world in order to deliver them from the wrath of God "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor. 5:21)
    Muhammad died - end of story.
(5) Alive
  • Jesus is alive "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (Rev. 1:17,18)
    Muhammad is as dead as Elvis.
(6) Personal relationship
  • Jesus wants us to have a personal relationship with him "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Rev 3:20)
    Muhammad is dead. The only personal relationship he had was with his 9-11 wives and multiple concubines.
(7) Worship
  • Jesus was worshipped as a living saviour "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)
    Muhammad was never worshipped. Who would worship a thug, a murderer, a rapist?
(8) Sinless
  • Jesus was sinless "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)
    Muhammad was a sinner, even the Qur’an says so. (Allah is speaking to Muhammad) (Sura 40:55) Patiently, then, persevere: for the Promise of Allah is true: and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and celebrate the Praises of thy Lord in the evening and in the morning.
(9) Believe
  • Jesus never used physical violence to force people to believe "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28)
    Muhammad frequently used violence to force people to accept Islam. He was a thug and a murderer.
(10) Free gift
  • Jesus offers the free gift of salvation. All you have to do is believe.
    What does Muhammad offer? Virgins in paradise if you blow yourself up and kill as many "infidels" as you can?

How could Muhammad even start to be compared to our Lord Jesus Christ?

:)
 
How could I have change the spelling of a NON-English word?

The issue is one of pronunciation--NOT spelling.

Muhammadim (Moo-hamad-im)

"Machamadiym" (Ma-ha-mawd-eem)

The pronunciation is important.

Funny, isn't it? when confronted with the Bible's truths Moslems cry--"The Bible is corrupted", yet when they want to justify their heresies they use the Bible to try and prove their point!

That is so uncool!
 
Funny, isn't it? when confronted with the Bible's truths Moslems cry--"The Bible is corrupted", yet when they want to justify their heresies they use the Bible to try and prove their point!

That is so uncool!
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Logic tells us that they do it because it is what the person they are debating believes in and there is no better tool then the one you believe in...

You will be more inclined to believe something you believe in then that of something you believe is false.... RIGHT?
 
Qasim786 said:
I think what brother was trying to say is that in Practise and by definition, Jesus was a Muslim.
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Anything in the Bible which isn't in keeping with this view, are you just going to disregard it, and believe its a corruption?
 
Gary Bee, Im Sorry but you are very ignorant of Islam. I never talked about comparing Muhammed And Jesus, to me they are both great mighty prophets. How could Muhammed possibly be opposed to Christ, as you said ('they are opposites') when Islam happens to be the only faith apart from Christianity itself, which makes it an article of faith to believe in the Holy Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him). We believe in the following things concerning him
1. That he was born Miraculously, without any male intervention (God can do anything!)
2. He was the Messiah
3. He gave life to the dead by Gods permission, healed those born blind and the lepers with Gods permission. We believe in all his Miracles, that God gave him.

The one who is opposed or opposite to Christ is the anti-christ. But it couldnt be Muhammed. We are told by God in the Quran In chapter three verse 45: 'Behold! The Angels Said: Oh Mary! Gold giveth thee Glad tidings of a word from him: his name will be Christ Jesus, The son of mary, held in honour in this world and the hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God.'
46: 'He shall speak to the people in childhood and in Maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.'

This is what God announced in the Quran concerning the Messiah – Jesus (p.b.u.h). He is mentioned in the Quran at least 25 times (Muhammed (p.b.u.h) is mentioned four times). I know that you were talking about differences, but i think its important to clear that up.

Divine Names, you said something about disregarding in the bible the things which didnt keep with my view about Jesus being a muslim in practise, there isnt anything that is against that view, thier are just many things that show the way he lived and the way he wanted his followers to live, was the same as how Muhammed wanted his followers to live like the examples i gave.

Gary Bee Said
Again, you ignore Scripture. Jesus instructed his disciples to pray while standing up. (Mark 11:25), King David prayed while sitting in (2 Sam 7:18), and Paul instructed prayer in church with hands lifted up in the air. (1 Tim 2:8).
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Yes Gary, Muslims pray standing up, but we also fall down in prostration during prayer, as Jesus did in the Garden of Gethsemane where he praying to God to strengthen him and remove this horrible ordeal from his ' Oh my father if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. Nevertheless not as i wilt but as thou wilt.' And in Mark:25 Jesus is not instructing his disciples to pray while standing up anyway, i dont know what you are referring to thier, you must have either given me the wrong reference or just plain lied to me (god forbid): It is about forgiving someone you are angry with. You said, about Paul instructing to pray with hands lifted up, which i dont disagree with, although i would have preferred something from the mouth of Jesus himself, but Muslims also make what is called 'dua' which is the personal prayer at the end of the main salah, in which we ask God for forgiveness and help or anything and we raise are hands up (not above our heads but as high as the neck or face) so you aer merely proving that the teachings of Jesus about prayer correspond to how muslims were taught to pray!!
 
too many other points that have been pulled out and i will have to answer on them point by point. regarding the song of solomon chapter 5:16, the word that i read in hewbrew is 'mahamadim' not 'machmad' - i dont know whether you can read or recite hewbrew (i cannot myself), but even the 'anchor bible' referred to in one of the books im reading refers to the term as mahammadim: and Muhammed and mahammad are pronounced almost identically. They are written slightly different due to traditional engish transliterations of the word.
 
The words "dog" and "Dug" are pronounced almost the same--by that token they mean the same?

Or perhaps we could take into account the words "Threw" and "Through", these are pronounced exactly the same--they don't mean the same!

It's bad enough people twisting scripture, when they even try to twist language then they are getting desperate.
 
Re: religion

What kind of a religion is it that whenever you come across something that you don't like you simply interpret it to suit your opinion to make it more palatable. What is the point of encouraging people to read the bible if no one can understand what is written and understand what is written is not what is meant? Don't you think if God inspired these people to write down what he meant he could have done it so everyone would understand what was written equally?
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So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
 
The Holy Scriptures need "Spiritual" discernment.

Unless a person be Spiritually minded these words will remain a mystery to them.
 
Gary Bee Said

Jesus never killed or robbed anyone "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44)
Muhammad clearly killed and robbed people in the name of Allah according to the Quran (Rodwell Sura 47:4) "When you encounter the infidels STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS till ye have made a great slaughter among them"
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Very Comical. If you look a few verses back at the first verse of this surah, it points out that those who 'hinder men from the path of God,-Their deeds will God render astray.' So this section is about people who try to subvert men from the true path. If these people try to persecute men or seduce them from the truth, the result will be the opposite of what they intend. Verse 4 is about fighting war against these type of people who try to stop you from practising Islam. It Reads as follows

4: "Therefore, when ye meet The Unbelievers (in fight), Smite at thier necks; At length, when ye have thouroughly subdued them, bind a bond Firmly (on them) : thereafter (is the time for) either genourosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted Retribution from them (Himself); But (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God,-he will never let thier deeds be lost."

The surah deals with the necessity of denfence against external foes by courage and strenuous fighting and dates from the first year of the Hijra, when the Muslims were under threat of Extinction by invasion from Mecca.
 
Gary Bee Said

Jesus never took any man's wife.
Muhammad did. When Muhammad wanted Zaid's (his adopted son) wife Muhammad conveniently got this revelation from Allah commanding Zaid to give up his wife to Muhammad - and that there was no evil in a father-in-law taking his daughter-in-law away from his own adopted son! Read it for yourselves. Sura 33:36-38
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Twisting of the verses, you have a tendency to make silly claims like this without relating the full story, perhaps because you do not know it. Where does it say Muhammed wanted Zaids wife!!! Give me a hadith where it is recorded that Muhammed wanted to marry Zainab. He is the one who organised this marriage between his cousin Zainab and Zaid.

Zaid was one of the first to accept the faith of Islam. He was a freedman of the holy prophet who loved him like his own son and gave him in marriage Zainab however the marriage turned out unhappy. The marriage took place 8 years before the Hijrah. Zainab was a high-born and looked down upon Zaid the freedman who had been a slave, and he was also not too attractive of a person. Both were good people in thier own way but the Mutual incompatibility was and is fatal to marriage. ZAID wanted to Divorce her, but Prophet Muhammed asked him to try and hold his hand in the marriage - and Zaid obeyed. Zainab was closely related to the prophet and he had given given a handsome marriage gift on her marriage to Zaid: people would start talking if such a marriage was brooken off, and Zainabs reputation wou have been ruined. These were the fears in the prophets mind. ("thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear God.") Zaids wish - the mutual wish of the couple- was for time being put away, but it eventually became an established fact.

What did Muhammed say? The Quran states in this surah (33) in verse 37: "Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of God(Zaid) And thy favour: 'RETAIN IN WEDLOCK THY WIFE, AND FEAR GOD..." The verse then goes on to talk about the fact that Muhammed concealed in his heart that the marriage hadnt gone to well because he really wanted the marriage to succeed, as with all marriages.
After the marriage had finally 'dissolved' with Zaid, Muhammed was then Joined in Marriage to Zainab.


God states in Surah 21:18 - "Nay, we hurl the truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false)things ye ascribe (to us)."
 
Jesus was worshipped as a living saviour "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28)
Muhammad was never worshipped. Who would worship a thug, a murderer, a rapist?
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When Thomas Said 'My Lord! My God!' he was not calling Jesus God it was an expression of his guilt for not believing. For example, i could say to you 'Gary, Oh my God why did you quote that verse..', etc etc, just because i said'Gary, Oh my God' im not calling you God it is just an expression which we use today and that Thomas used to express his Guilt.

Muhammed was never worshipped, because noone is worthy of worship execpt the creator of the worlds, who made me and you and Muhammed and Jesus. Jesus never claimed to be God and rightly so because he was only a mouth piece of God to convey the Message to the Children Of Israel. Why would god pray to God. Who did Jesus pray to? No Jesus is not God, he is a messenger of God. Now you will tell me yourself that he is not God, but is part of the trinity, father,son holy Ghost and these three are one. But did Jesus himself teach this. No he taught that God is one and is independant of all help. God doesnt need help from any of us, he is omnipitent. He has no children - Surah Ihlas : "Say! God is one, the eternal God. He does not beget. Nor is he begotten. And thier is nothing like unto him."
 
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
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Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
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The word Father was a title that Jews gave to God - metophorically the father of everything. The term son of God is used in respect to people other than Jesus in the Old Testament. For Example in Psalms 2: "He has said to me : 'You are my son. I Today have become your father." This is what God told David. Yet no christian would say that David was the son of God - the term son of God is not literal here it just means 'a righteous servant of God.' In John 10:34 Jesus Says "Is it not written in your law that God said, 'I said you are Gods.' (Psalms 82:6) The Scripture called those people God's who received Gods Message.' In other he was trying to tell them, why are you trying to kill me when i call myself the son of God, when your law Calls people 'Gods'. But they were looking for reasons to justify them killing him, so they were making false accusations that he was claiming to be the same as God, when all he was trying to say is that i am a servant of God, and that my purpose is the same purpose of God because he chose me. When he says 'I and the Father are one' he does not mean one in unity he is talking about one in purpose. In purpose God and Jesus were both the same, as were all of Gods prophets because God specially chose them, so they could only do what he wanted them to do.
 
Consider John 17:21 Where Jesus Says : " Father, I Pray, that they can be one. As you are in me and i am in you , i pray that they can be one in us. Then the world will believe that you sent me. "

The Greek word for one - hen, which is the same greek word that is used in John Chapter 10:30 where Jesus says i and the father are one. The word one is used to denote one in purpose. Both in 17:21 and 10:30. He is not claiming to be the same as God!
 
I was reading an article on Manichaeism, interestingly-


"Mani proclaimed himself the Paraclete promised by Jesus"

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09591a.htm


Also:


"Mani viewed himself as the final successor in a long line of prophets, beginning with Adam and including Buddha, Zoroaster, and Jesus. He viewed earlier revelations of the true religion as being limited in effectiveness because they were local, taught in one language to one people. Moreover, later adherents lost sight of the original truth. Mani regarded himself as the carrier of a universal message destined to replace all other religions. Hoping to avoid corruption and to ensure doctrinal unity, he recorded his teachings in writing and gave those writings canonical status during his lifetime."

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~sbriggs/Britann ... haeism.htm





So its not just Muhammad that was foretold in the Bible!
 
Mohammed certainly doesn't fullfil this. Any how--jesus already stated that the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit!

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
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Qasim786 said:
"Mani proclaimed himself the Paraclete promised by Jesus"
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Does he fit the criteria that Jesus Gave of the coming Paraclete?
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If we can find a word in the Old Testament that is pronounced in a somewhat similar way to "Mani", that will prove he was foretold.

:D
 
Yes,The Holy Does not fit with Prophet Muhammed, but most bibles translate that phrase with the Holy Spirit, not the Holy Ghost. When you use Holy Spirit, we can have that fitting Muhammed, and also 'spirit of Truth' can also fit the prophet Muhammed. I really advise you to look at the argument provided in the following link, which clearly shows that the comforter is not the holy spirit, but it is a figure parralel to Jesus i.e a man, a human.

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/MIB/

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/ ... ch6_3.html
 
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