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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
JLB discusses speaking in tongues
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
That's not a missed option "by one Spirit" that is the Spirit Jesus baptizes with as noted in Acts 2. And there is but one baptism and One Spirit given to all.
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
stovebolts
Member
ezra and JLB
Both of you have been here long enough to know what's expected of you when you post on my forum and you have both been told multiple times how to deal with any hard feelings toward one another in PM.
One more public outburst anywhere like I've been reading since page 8 and for starters, both of your access will be removed from the Theology forum.
I do not expect a public reply to my post and I would caution both of you from making a public reply.
JohnDB
Both of you have been here long enough to know what's expected of you when you post on my forum and you have both been told multiple times how to deal with any hard feelings toward one another in PM.
One more public outburst anywhere like I've been reading since page 8 and for starters, both of your access will be removed from the Theology forum.
I do not expect a public reply to my post and I would caution both of you from making a public reply.
JohnDB
I see this passage as the Spirit baptizing us into Christ.
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13
by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body
Let’s compare with what Paul just said in a previous chapter.
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.
These correlate to and represent
Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism
JLB
stovebolts
Member
Please don't misunderstand me.
I do not completely follow you.
You state a new birth occurs first which baptizes us into Christ.
What are you talking about? Perhaps you can start by defining how you are using the word baptize.
Then you state we are baptized into water.
And then you talk of being baptized by the Holy Spirit by Jesus.
Elsewhere, I recall you saying one received the Holy Spirit when they were born again, which occurred when one believed, although I'm unsure what you expected them to believe.
Can you please explain.
The new birth is when we are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.
Afterward comes baptism in water, and the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Three distinct baptisms.
Let’s compare with what Paul just said in a previous chapter.
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.
These correlate to and represent
Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism
JLB
stovebolts
Member
Hi Randy,
I've read a lot of your posts in this thread and I've enjoyed reading them.
You speak of one baptism with water by man.
Can you explain how you mean that?
stovebolts
Member
Which one of these baptisms do you believe Paul was mistaken about?
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.
These correlate to and represent
Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism
JLB
Ok. Go ahead.
Can you explain which baptism that Paul described for us that you feel is not applicable to the Christian?
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.
These correlate to and represent
Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism
JLB
When it comes to Spiritual baptism its always through the Son.
John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
stovebolts
Member
Your about 5 steps ahead of me.
I would like to define our terms so we are on the same page. If we dont define what baptism is and what it's function is, we can quote scripture all day and never understand each other and right now, you have me lost.
What I am asking is simple and I ask so I can understand you because honestly, I'm not understanding much of what your proposing.
He believes when Jesus baptizes we are born again.
Then the Holy Spirit (not Jesus) baptizes us into Christ.
And of course water baptism.
So 3 baptisms 2 of which are from God.
addendum: 3 baptisms from God in which 2 are performed by God Himself. For water baptism was commanded by Jesus.
Last edited:
stovebolts
Member
Ahh, ok, I think I see where you're coming from.
When I think of water baptism by man, I see self-imposed ritual imposed upon another in the gist of becoming a member within a religious club. Others may see this differently which is why I'm explaining how I understand the term.
When I look at Johns baptism for repentance, I do not see it as a water baptism by man. I see it as a work of God.
What are your thoughts?
Water baptism is from God but not an act of God. I think there are those who have been baptized into Christ via water but not via the Spirit. And via the Spirit is by Jesus's will. And if one doesn't have the Spirit of Christ in them they don't belong to Jesus. They are not a child of God as in born of God.
History shows hypocrisy when church and state were fused as one in any religion.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
You have examples in this day and age of those that claimed to be born again in the past then left the faith to join another claiming they saw the light. Push comes to shove and they at times will admit they never really believed Jesus was the only way to the Father and that the forgiveness of sin is found in Him alone.
Jesus is how God chose to forgive sin though according to the sayings of man there are many different religions in the world.
stovebolts
Member
I share your sentiment.
I believe Johns baptism was a work of God.
Matthew 21
English Standard Version
The baptism of John, from where did it come? From heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’
As such, I think it's a dangerous assumption for some to say Johns baptism in water was mans baptism. Even the Pharisees held enough reverence to God to not argue against it being of God.
Brother.
Please help us to understand which of these baptisms you don’t agree with.
You go ahead and define the terms and I will share my perspective.
Meanwhile I have answered your questions so I expect you to answer one of mine.
Which one of these baptisms do you feel is not applicable to the Christian?
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
From the Old Testament we see Paul showing us the three distinct baptisms.
These correlate to and represent
Moses = Baptized into Christ
The Cloud = The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Sea = Water Baptism
I don’t want to keep discussing the baptisms we agree upon.
So to bring clarity to this discussion I’m asking you to show us which one of these you feel are not relevant for us today.
JLB
Johns baptism was from God but not by God. Jesus would be exception. The question is in the context of Authority. John was making straight ways for the Lord and stated the one who the Holy Spirit comes down and remains on is the Christ and the one who will baptize by the Holy Spirit.
Mark 11
By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you authority to do this?”
Jesus replied, “I will ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin? Tell me!”