JLB discusses speaking in tongues

[Randy]

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.
Hebrews 6:1-3



again

• for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


again

• For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:14-16



There are three baptisms brother, as the scriptures show us.



Here Paul shows the foreshadow of all three baptisms from the Old Testament.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2

• all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

1. Baptized into Moses = Baptized into Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13

2. Baptized in the cloud = Baptism with the Holy Spirit​

Acts 1:5, Acts 2:4, Acts 8:14-16, Acts 10:44-47, Acts 19:1-6

3. Baptized in the sea = Baptism in water​

Acts 8:36-39


Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:36-39

• And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

JLB

There is a baptism with water from man. There is one baptism from Jesus with Spirit.
That's it.
One who has the Spirit of Christ in them would not state they have not received the Spirit.

I think we are going in circles repeating again and again what we have already stated.
We are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[JLB]

When we turn to Acts 2, we find that about 3,000 Jews received the gift of the Holy Spirit (baptized with the Spirit) on the day of Pentecost. None of them were reported to have spoken in tongues, and this would be the norm. Only those who had been waiting and praying in the upper room (the apostles and the disciples of Christ). And that too so that tongues would be a sign to the thousands of Jews gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost.

First we have an incident in Acts 8, where Samaritans were saved and baptized, but had not received the gift of the Spirit. We read that Peter and John laid hands on them and they received the Spirit. There is an assumption by some that they spoke in tongues, but that is not recorded.

However, when we turn to Acts 10, there was a very good reason why those Gentiles who received the Spirit spoke in tongues. It was a sign to Peter and his Jewish companions that those Gentiles had also received the gift of the Holy Ghost. That is because at the time, even Peter had a very hard time believing that God would saved Gentile "dogs".

Then we have the incident in Acts 19 where the disciples of John the Baptist had been baptized, but had not heard of Jesus or the Holy Ghost. In this case Paul laid his hands on them and they received the Spirit, were baptized in the name of Christ, and also spoke in tongues. This was to give them evidence of the power of the Holy Spirit, of whom they had not heard.

Each time a person repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, they receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit. But not all speak in tongues, neither it is the norm in Scripture. Even Paul did not speak in tongues at his baptism, although He did receive that spiritual gift later (as we are told).

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:38-47


Where does it specify in these verses that these 3000 were baptized with the Holy Spirit?


We know the Apostles traveled to Samaria to lay hands on them to receive, but there is no mention here specifically as to how these folks received the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


I personally believe they did, and like everyone else there was evidence that was seen and heard, when they did, just like every ther time.


Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33

• He poured out this which you now see and hear

JLB

 

[JLB]

There is one baptism from Jesus with Spirit.

Yes I agree, there is one baptism from Jesus with the Spirit.



However, the scriptures teach there is one baptism from the Spirit, whereby we are baptized into Christ.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13





JLB

 

[JLB]

chill out i told you i would put your feet to the fire in questions. plz dont cray wolf when you played hard ball yourself

Not crying wolf.


Just don’t attack my realationship with Christ, because you are being exposed by the scriptures.


It makes your position look weak.



JLB

 

[ezra]

Not crying wolf.


Just don’t attack my realationship with Christ, because you are being exposed by the scriptures.


It makes your position look weak.



JLB

how about you show where my position is weak ?where did i attack your relationship with christ?

 

[JLB]

It is also written, (biblical evidence) that someone has received the promised Holy Spirit
"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children."

Christ in us.

Amen.


The Apostles received the Spirit from Christ before the day of Pentecost.


And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20:22





JLB

 

[JLB]

how about you show where my position is weak ?where did i attack your relationship with christ?

This statement is attacking my relationship with the Lord.

funny aint it i find many who spend more time bragging on speaking in tongues ,than they do bragging on Jesus .

I’m not bragging about tongues, just sharing what the scriptures say, as well as my personal experience.

Your trying to insinuate that I exalt speaking in tongues over the Lord Himself.


Very immature.

Very Rude.


Jesus is the One who baptized me with the Holy Spirit.


If it’s in the scriptures then you should believe it, rather than attacking people who do.




JLB

 

[JLB]

how about you show where my position is weak

You resort to attacking the person rather than addressing the multitude of scriptures I gave you.



Very weak.




JLB

 

[ezra]

This statement is attacking my relationship with the Lord.





I’m not bragging about tongues, just sharing what the scriptures say, as well as my personal experience.

Your trying to insinuate that I exalt speaking in tongues over the Lord Himself.


Very immature.

Very Rude.


Jesus is the One who baptized me with the Holy Spirit.


If it’s in the scriptures then you should believe it, rather than attacking people who do.




JLB

nope never said jlb i said many and i do know many who do..not rude not immature.. i have yet to take this to a personal level ..you read it and assumed that is what i meant.. attacking ? come on you got thicker skin than that . i used a observation just to make you feel better i have seen and heard those who believes tongues has ceased. might i say one scripture does say that.. but since i see it as a gift i believe it can possibly exist . but i question its use in church .private use i have no issue with .. so dont go the attacking victim .when i have stated my point several TIMES .
WHEN YOU HAVE SEVERAL FOLKS SPEAKING IN TONGUES AT SAME TIME. or the preacher bringing a message and use tongues ..what does it benefit me if i have no idea what is being said ?

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

 

[ezra]

You resort to attacking the person rather than addressing the multitude of scriptures I gave you.



Very weak.




JLB

surely you can do better than that .i have no attacked you.

 

[Randy]

Amen.


The Apostles received the Spirit from Christ before the day of Pentecost.


And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20:22





JLB

As we stated before. The gift of the Spirit. Christ in us.

If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and "will be" in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”


And certainly Cornelius and others were not born anew before being baptized by Jesus. So what you state is not a perception given by the Apostles -two works of grace

And there are no other claims of tongues of flames with sound coming on people.

The method of Jesus giving the gift of the Spirit is up to Him. Quietly and in private or publicly with signs as a witness to the world of this new birth.

What was noted by Peter is that God gave the same Spirit to Cornelius that the Apostles received. And stated the promise.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

 

[JLB]

nope never said jlb

Again, this is the comment you addressed to me, not someone else.

funny aint it i find many who spend more time bragging on speaking in tongues ,than they do bragging on Jesus .

If you you want to continue discussing this topic with me then address the scriptures I gave you.


If you just want play childish games and argue then you can do it by yourself.


Please grow up, and study the scriptures.


If you are not interested in the Baptism of the Spirit, then why are you in this thread?




JLB

 

[JLB]

As we stated before. The gift of the Spirit. Christ in us.

Did the Apostles receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit after they received the Spirit from Christ?




JLB

 

[JLB]

And certainly Cornelius and others were not born anew before being baptized by Jesus. So what you state is not a perception given by the Apostles -two works of grace

You are the one referring to two works of grace, not me.


I don’t use such language.




JLB

 

[JLB]

And certainly Cornelius and others were not born anew before being baptized by Jesus. So what you state is not a perception given by the Apostles -two works of grace

Cornelius and His household received the same way the Apostles did on the day of Pentecost.



And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, ‘Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:13-18

• If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”

JLB

 

[JLB]

What was noted by Peter is that God gave the same Spirit to Cornelius that the Apostles received. And stated the promise.

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Repent and be baptized refers to water baptism.


The house of Cornelius were baptized in water, after they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

From Wikipedia:

Agnes Ozman (1870–1937) was a female student at Charles Fox Parham's Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas. Ozman was considered by many as “the first to speak in tongues”. Her experiences sparked the modern Pentecostal-Holiness movement, which began in the early 20th century.


The article is of exceptional information. Including her statement that is almost identical to the one ezra just made. The exact same sentiment is obvious.

 

[ezra]

Again, this is the comment you addressed to me, not someone else.






If you you want to continue discussing this topic with me then address the scriptures I gave you.


If you just want play childish games and argue then you can do it by yourself.


Please grow up, and study the scriptures.


If you are not interested in the Baptism of the Spirit, then why are you in this thread?




JLB

awww crying wolf again what was your remark ..it said something about funny would you care to repost this? i dont have time to discuss this at the moment..i must finish getting dressed head of the church. i am standing in for adult sunday school teacher this morn.. i will give you the reason i am in this post. might i add you do not dictate this is a discussion . pros/ cons

 

[JLB]

From Wikipedia:

Agnes Ozman (1870–1937) was a female student at Charles Fox Parham's Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas. Ozman was considered by many as “the first to speak in tongues”. Her experiences sparked the modern Pentecostal-Holiness movement, which began in the early 20th century.


The article is of exceptional information. Including her statement that is almost identical to the one ezra just made. The exact same sentiment is obvious.

Not even close.



Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church

Historical evidence of speaking in tongues in the early church from the writings of Eusebius, Irenaeus, Chrysostom of Constantinople, and Augustine of Hippo…
A.D. 33 - The day of Pentecost:
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ACTS 2:1-4
A.D. 41 - At Caesarea:
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." ACTS 10:44-46
A.D. 54 - At Ephesus:
"And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost... And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." ACTS 19:1-6
A.D. - At Corinth:
"Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of Spiritual gifts, see that ye may excel to the edifying of the church... Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret... I thank my God that I (Paul) speak with tongues more than ye all."1 CORINTHIANS 14:12-18
A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."
A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."
A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.
A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."
A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."
"THIS IS THAT..."
"But Peter... lifted up his voice and said: This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh."ACTS 2:16-17
What is "this"? This is what happened in the upper room on that first Pentecostal Sunday:

1. The fire of God appeared.
2. The sound of God's Spirit was heard.
3. They were all filled.
4. They all spoke in tongues.

What is "that"? That, said Peter, is what has caused this - namely, the Spirit of God poured out as promised.
Not a word from the Old or New Testaments suggests that this outpouring would be limited to one day. Bible teaching is to the contrary:

1. The experience was for all (JOEL 2:28).
2. Tongues was to be the sign (See MARK 16:17; ISAIAH 28:11-12; 1 CORINTHIANS 14:21).
3. The experience was seen and heard (ACTS 2:33).
4. It was continued throughout all generations (ACTS 2:39).

Why "this" is "that"? This is that simply because the Holy Spirit was identified with the experience of tongues. Take this scriptural confirmation away and we indulge in guesswork of the most dangerous nature. Whether in the house of Cornelius (ACTS 10:44), or at Ephesus (ACTS 19), the lack of THIS would have frustrated the receiving of THAT - namely the wonderful and satisfying gift of the Holy Spirit, with tongues.

 

[JLB]

awww crying wolf again what was your remark ..it said something about funny would you care to repost this? i dont have time to discuss this at the moment..i must finish getting dressed head of the church. i am standing in for adult sunday school teacher this morn.. i will give you the reason i am in this post. might i add you do not dictate this is a discussion . pros/ cons

Use scripture or I won’t respond to anymore of your posts.



JLB