JLB discusses speaking in tongues

[ezra]

Use scripture or I won’t respond to anymore of your posts.



JLB

i have and do as you please

 

[JohnDB]

Not even close.



Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church

Historical evidence of speaking in tongues in the early church from the writings of Eusebius, Irenaeus, Chrysostom of Constantinople, and Augustine of Hippo…
A.D. 33 - The day of Pentecost:
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ACTS 2:1-4
A.D. 41 - At Caesarea:
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." ACTS 10:44-46
A.D. 54 - At Ephesus:
"And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost... And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." ACTS 19:1-6
A.D. - At Corinth:
"Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of Spiritual gifts, see that ye may excel to the edifying of the church... Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret... I thank my God that I (Paul) speak with tongues more than ye all."1 CORINTHIANS 14:12-18
A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."
A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."
A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.
A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."
A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."
"THIS IS THAT..."
"But Peter... lifted up his voice and said: This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh."ACTS 2:16-17
What is "this"? This is what happened in the upper room on that first Pentecostal Sunday:

1. The fire of God appeared.
2. The sound of God's Spirit was heard.
3. They were all filled.
4. They all spoke in tongues.

What is "that"? That, said Peter, is what has caused this - namely, the Spirit of God poured out as promised.
Not a word from the Old or New Testaments suggests that this outpouring would be limited to one day. Bible teaching is to the contrary:

1. The experience was for all (JOEL 2:28).
2. Tongues was to be the sign (See MARK 16:17; ISAIAH 28:11-12; 1 CORINTHIANS 14:21).
3. The experience was seen and heard (ACTS 2:33).
4. It was continued throughout all generations (ACTS 2:39).

Why "this" is "that"? This is that simply because the Holy Spirit was identified with the experience of tongues. Take this scriptural confirmation away and we indulge in guesswork of the most dangerous nature. Whether in the house of Cornelius (ACTS 10:44), or at Ephesus (ACTS 19), the lack of THIS would have frustrated the receiving of THAT - namely the wonderful and satisfying gift of the Holy Spirit, with tongues.

Read the article I provided a link for then comment.

 

[Randy]

Repent and be baptized refers to water baptism.


The house of Cornelius were baptized in water, after they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

One Baptism with water by man.
One Baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.

= 1 work of grace by God

 

[ezra]

Read the article I provided a link for then comment.

not sure why you wanted me to read this.... not sure if your pro or con on tongues . i will clarify one more time... i believe there is a Gift {note * Gift } i disagree with how it is used in church service... i gave scriptures in what paul wrote in 1 cor 14 .

 

[ezra]

Every person I have ever talked with that has been baptized with the Holy Spirit, said they spoke with tongues when they got it.


Funny how all the people that have never been baptized with the Holy Spirit, don’t speak with tongues.



JLB

ya missed posting your funny but took offense with my funny so should i take offense ?

 

[JohnDB]

not sure why you wanted me to read this.... not sure if your pro or con on tongues . i will clarify one more time... i believe there is a Gift {note * Gift } i disagree with how it is used in church service... i gave scriptures in what paul wrote in 1 cor 14 .

Well it wasn't directed at you as it was JLB. He commented without reading the article (annoyingly so again...I'm beginning to wonder if he reads anyone's things before commenting...but it was plainly obvious again that he read nothing)

But the parallel between what you said and what Agnes said was almost verbatim. Which is why I tagged you.

What I think was significant is the fact that at the time this lady is studying (kinda a novel thing for a woman at that time) she speaks in tongues as a sign...at the same time the Women's Suffrage movement is getting started...

Not a big leap to understand that she became despondent due to mis- interpretation of the sign...as did everyone else did.

 

[Nathan12]

Where does it specify in these verses that these 3000 were baptized with the Holy Spirit?

There is a tendency among Christians today to always want EXPLICIT statements about certain things which are IMPLIED in Scripture. Now notice what it says in Acts 2:41:

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Since Peter had already preached repentance, they believed the Gospel (gladly received his word). And the moment they repented and believed, they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that is why they were then baptized as believers and added to the Church. Everyone one who receives the baptism with the Spirit receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it is the Holy Spirit who then baptizes them (joins them) into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:12,13).

Had 3,000 believers spoken in tongues on that day, it would surely have been recorded. But the only record is that they gladly received the Gospel and were baptized by immersion in water (which is what that word means).

 

[JohnDB]

There is a tendency among Christians today to always want EXPLICIT statements about certain things which are IMPLIED in Scripture. Now notice what it says in Acts 2:41:

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Since Peter had already preached repentance, they believed the Gospel (gladly received his word). And the moment they repented and believed, they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that is why they were then baptized as believers and added to the Church. Everyone one who receives the baptism with the Spirit receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it is the Holy Spirit who then baptizes them (joins them) into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:12,13).

Had 3,000 believers spoken in tongues on that day, it would surely have been recorded. But the only record is that they gladly received the Gospel and were baptized by immersion in water (which is what that word means).

Exodus 32:28
VX
Acts 2:41
Paul then writes:
The letter of the Law kills but the Spirit brings life.

That's the purpose....speaking in tongues is a "red herring " to the meaning.

 

[Nathan12]

There are three baptisms brother, as the scriptures show us.

And if you add the baptism "with fire" (an allusion to martyrdom) and the baptism by the Holy Spirit, there are five: (1) John's baptism for repenting Jews (Israel), (2) the baptism with the Holy Spirit (the gift of the Spirit), (3) Christian baptism by immersion in water (death, burial, and resurrection symbolized), (4) the baptism by the Spirit, joining each believer to the Body of Christ, and (5) the baptism with "fire" or a fiery trial [martyrdom for the saints but crucifixion for Christ -- But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! (Luke 12:50)]

James and John were rather ambitious, so they had to be told about this fiery baptism (their martyrdom):
MARK 10
35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.
36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

 

[ezra]

Read the article I provided a link for then comment.

so what is your point on it you have posted very little on it

Well it wasn't directed at you as it was JLB. He commented without reading the article (annoyingly so again...I'm beginning to wonder if he reads anyone's things before commenting...but it was plainly obvious again that he read nothing)

But the parallel between what you said and what Agnes said was almost verbatim. Which is why I tagged you.

What I think was significant is the fact that at the time this lady is studying (kinda a novel thing for a woman at that time) she speaks in tongues as a sign...at the same time the Women's Suffrage movement is getting started...

Not a big leap to understand that she became despondent due to mis- interpretation of the sign...as did everyone else did.

thank you for the clarification .i realize that tongues is important to J L B and use of it privately..even though i am not understanding the benefit..jude wrote
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
many will say that is praying in tongues ..i disagree praying in the spirit is letting the Lord direct your prayers and also imo when we know not what to pray or how.. i say Lord help me (building up yourselves on your most holy faith,) praying helps build our faith we pray trust God ..sometimes he seems to say my grace is sufficient.

i am being honest when i say i am not sure the tongues used today is the same as day of Pentecost. to each there own i will continue to visit churches that believes in tongues . i have a dear friend lady Pentecostal preacher that is very sincere and respectful to others outside her circle of doctrine.. i know a couple ASOG pastors both good guys and very respectful. both have preached in Baptist Churches i have visited .

when i say i am putting Jlb feet the coals.. i am asking hard questions .in fact in discussion . i am purposelessly disagreeing.. i am looking for answers. i am well aware of acts and the other scriptures on tongues .

so i have to come to the conclusion tongues is not for everybody. if he replies again i will come up with more difficult questions .yes i have been in Pentecostal churches many was speaking in tongues at one time --confusion i got nothing out of it

 

[JohnDB]

so what is your point on it you have posted very little on it

thank you for the clarification .i realize that tongues is important to J L B and use of it privately..even though i am not understanding the benefit..jude wrote
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
many will say that is praying in tongues ..i disagree praying in the spirit is letting the Lord direct your prayers and also imo when we know not what to pray or how.. i say Lord help me (building up yourselves on your most holy faith,) praying helps build our faith we pray trust God ..sometimes he seems to say my grace is sufficient.

i am being honest when i say i am not sure the tongues used today is the same as day of Pentecost. to each there own i will continue to visit churches that believes in tongues . i have a dear friend lady Pentecostal preacher that is very sincere and respectful to others outside her circle of doctrine.. i know a couple ASOG pastors both good guys and very respectful. both have preached in Baptist Churches i have visited .

when i say i am putting Jlb feet the coals.. i am asking hard questions .in fact in discussion . i am purposelessly disagreeing.. i am looking for answers. i am well aware of acts and the other scriptures on tongues .

so i have to come to the conclusion tongues is not for everybody. if he replies again i will come up with more difficult questions .yes i have been in Pentecostal churches many was speaking in tongues at one time --confusion i got nothing out of it

Well yes, of course!
There have been many people who have very minimal knowledge about God and Jesus and the Gospel message who walk into a charismatic church where everyone is speaking in tongues and politely walk out again never to return.

Many of the people involved try to claim somehow (not blatantly) that "God loves them special " or treats them special...or that they are special....whatever.

And then outside of church behave worse than the heathens do.
Been involved with way too many churches that promote the very same things JLB is promoting to ever be a part of one of them intentionally.

 

[ezra]

Been involved with way too many churches that promote the very same things

every denom has this . the hard core charismatic i simply will not deal with the only thing they know is acts 2 :38

 

[JLB]

One Baptism with water by man.
One Baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.

= 1 work of grace by God

Your missing one baptism.


The Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Link to article
the above is a link to the article which includes the history of the MODERN Pentecostal movement in America and the lady who was the first one to speak in tongues.
I tend to believe her and what the sign represented...equal rights for women as well as men. (Women's Sufferage movement)

 

[JLB]

Since Peter had already preached repentance, they believed the Gospel (gladly received his word). And the moment they repented and believed, they received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It doesn’t say the Apostles laid hands on them, to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence that you can see or hear.


When we believe, and receive the word, Gospel Message, we are baptized by the Spirit into Christ, whereby we are made to drink into one Spirit.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13



This is not the baptism whereby Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Link to article
the above is a link to the article which includes the history of the MODERN Pentecostal movement in America and the lady who was the first one to speak in tongues.
I tend to believe her and what the sign represented...equal rights for women as well as men. (Women's Sufferage movement)

Great.


What’s the point.


I’m showing and discussing scripture.



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Great.
What’s the point?
I’m showing and discussing scripture.
JLB

Nothing that I haven't said at least twice and you have not bothered to notice.

 

[Nathan12]

It doesn’t say the Apostles laid hands on them, to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence that you can see or hear.

The apostles couldn't possibly lay hands on 3,000+ people. But Christ could baptize them all with the Spirit immediately.

 

[JLB]

The apostles couldn't possibly lay hands on 3,000+ people. But Christ could baptize them all with the Spirit immediately.

He sure could and the pattern is the Day of Pentecost where those who are baptized with the Holy Spirit spoke with tongues.


The evidence that is seen and heard.


Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33

• He poured out this which you now see and hear.

That’s the biblical pattern, when Jesus pours out His Spirit on a large crowd, there is evidence that is seen and heard.


When He moves through people through the laying on of hands there is evidence that is seen and heard.


Speaking in tongues.


Just like the Bible teaches.



JLB

 

[ezra]

Link to article
the above is a link to the article which includes the history of the MODERN Pentecostal movement in America and the lady who was the first one to speak in tongues.
I tend to believe her and what the sign represented...equal rights for women as well as men. (Women's Sufferage movement)

interesting