Bible Study Job - Book of Declaration and Transformation

[Deborah13]

5 If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
6 If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
7 Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.

Bildad sounds just like some modern day preachers. If you didn't have sin in your life, these calamities would not have fallen on you. Get right with God and your latter end will greatly increase. And just like modern preachers all of his friends speak some truths but they use them in the wrong way and assume those truths apply in all classes.

 

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At one point I don't know that Job was wanting to press forward in this life but he never gave up his faith in God. It's a wonder he didn't considering his faithless wife and blind friends.

At one time on the cross it seems Jesus feels forsaken, but he still commends his spirit into the hands of God. Luke 23:46

IMHO, it is not a matter of his friends, but the heresy they speak. (Father forgive them for they know not .... ) Luke 23:34

Types do not fit exactly perfectly, but you get the drift.

LOL please quote scripture to support your thoughts. Job's answer would be one area to use.

Bildad sounds just like some modern day preachers. If you didn't have sin in your life, these calamities would not have fallen on you. Get right with God and your latter end will greatly increase. And just like modern preachers all of his friends speak some truths but they use them in the wrong way and assume those truths apply in all classes.

Modern day preachers quote Job's friends too.(?). No way. The long rambling introduction mentions this.

You just passed go.

We all have to examine our doctrine.

You are doing great Deborah13. I have decades invested in Job, and still write like a third grader. The book of Job is a great theology source.

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[Deborah13]

You are doing great Deborah13. I have decades invested in Job, and still write like a third grader. The book of Job is a great theology source.

You are pointing out things that I did not see before. Your years of investment are enriching my understanding.

 

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Job 9:1
Then Job answered and said,
2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
4 He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
5 Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
10 Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
11 Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
12 Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.

Job basically says it is not my work but God is all power and I submit myself to my Judge. Job trusts God for his salvation.

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And just like modern preachers all of his friends speak some truths but they use them in the wrong way and assume those truths apply in all classes

God did not say the friends spoke some truth. God said they did not speak the truth.

Really, we may have to study Romans 1:32 and Romans 2:1 to get brave enough to deal with the friends.

Matthew. 11:17
And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Hopefully we do not switch back and forth with favors with heretics.

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[Deborah13]

God did not say the friends spoke some truth. God said they did not speak the truth.

I don't think that everything they said was about God. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

 

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IMHO. Job 9:1-15 is the truth. One really just sees the concept of Psalm Ascents to hear this truth presented over and over, but on slightly differing levels each time it is repeated.

I really believe the pre-law timeline location of Job. Given the time location of Job the ascents can be understood better. The problem arises when my limited redneck mentality can just barely see all this.
Hebrews 1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

So we wind up identifying pre-law priests, law priests, prophets, etc. Jesus cast the shadows though, and is the reality / body.

In opposition to the truth, we will hear differing heresies that put man in control of his salvation: works, behavior, speaking, will, (?).

May we have the mind of Christ.

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Job8:8 Bildad still speaking:
For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow) :
10 Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
11 Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
12 Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before anyother herb.
13 So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
14 Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
15 He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
16 He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
17 His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
18 If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
19 Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
20 Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
21Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
22 They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.

The father expressed his favor toward his son.
Isaiah 42:3
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

Proverbs 12:7
The wicked are overthrown, and are not: but the house of the righteous shall stand.

Isaiah 53:2
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Job's answer:
Job 9:17
For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

What else will Job say?

 

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Bildad in Job 8:8 has the search directed toward the past.
Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Notice that Bildad wants us to look to our past for our reality, but NT scripture tells us that our reality is Christ placing shadows toward creation. Since the end of Job tells us the friends are wrong, you have to compare / seek reality in the futture rather than past. Just about beyond my comprehension.

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Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Ezekiel 18:2
"What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel: "'The parents eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

We do know history, but we look ahead for who we will become. Bildad is supporting something a dangerous belief. Today we look ahead. Job was not stuck in the past.

I John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

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Job 9:19
If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
25 Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
26 They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
27 If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
28 I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.

I guess I better comment and then go on later. IMHO. Job is seeing / speaking the future judgement of Christ Jesus before the wicked Roman and Jewish authority. Now this is the Spirit of God speaking by Job. Job is not totally speaking of himself. If not for the Acts conversation of Phillip and the Ethiopian, I would think it was primarily about Job.

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[Deborah13]

Ezekiel 18:2
"What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel: "'The parents eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

Talk about the past. This is the verse that those who preach generational curses use to support their interpretation. This is what I see. God is not looking at the past and what our forefathers did to judge us.
Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Just a note: A Christian, cannot claim Ezekiel is for themselves and Jeremiah is just for the physical nation of Israel.
Even more so, Jesus said the blind man was not blind because of any sin of his parents or himself, but for the glory of God.

We do know history, but we look ahead for who we will become. Bildad is supporting something a dangerous belief. Today we look ahead. Job was not stuck in the past.

All of the friends insist that Job had to have sinned or God would not allow him to be stricken. They want him to search his past for some offense. Job sees that bad things happen to good people, for the glory of God.

 

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Acts 8:32
The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

This Jesus was:
Isaiah 53:2
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

IMHO. The very Son of God took on sinful flesh
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

What we seem to have in Job, is the revelation of the Son trying to understand man.
Job 10:4
Hast thou eyes of flesh? or seest thou as man seeth?
5 Are thy days as the days of man? are thy years as man's days,
6 That thou inquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my sin?
7 Thou knowest that I am not wicked; and there is none that can deliver out of thine hand.
8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.
9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

When Jesus fulfills the will of his Father he will die.
Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul seems to have the realization of flesh and reborn spirit (not just like Jesus) but he knows the dual nature Jesus struggled with. Paul knows the wretched man he suffered with. Jesus struggles to understand his flesh (yet Jesus had no sin).

To bear our sin we seem to be listening to Jesus go through much to understand (eyes of flesh ?).

How does a redneck from Mississippi grasp even part of all this?
Job 10:10
Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?
11 Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.
13 And these things hast thou hid in thine heart: I know that this is with thee.

14-22 is part of the reason Jesus would sweat drops as of blood as he considers the light he will take into death. IMHO this is all way beyond just being about the man Job.


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Job 11:1
Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said,
2 Should not the multitude of words be answered? and should a man full of talk be justified?
3 Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed?
4 For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
5 But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
6 And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee lessthan thine iniquity deserveth.
7 Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
9 The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Since we know God has declared Job :
Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

We know that Job is not a liar.

We know that Job can find out about God. We have read the last of Job and know creation reveals the nature of God.

Thus Zophar is claiming to know what God does; when he is wrong.

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Job 12:1
And Job answered and said,
2 No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.
3 But I have understanding as well as you; I amnot inferior to you: yea, who knoweth not such things as these?
4 I am as one mocked of his neighbour, who calleth upon God, and he answereth him: the just upright man is laughed to scorn.

Jesus was pure, but people attacked him. Here Job is under direct attack.

Luke 16:14
And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

While this is not about money the deriding is similar.

Matthew 27:13
And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads

Zophar is almost attacking Job in passing

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Zophar continues

Job 11:10
If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder him?
11 For he knoweth vain men: he seeth wickedness also; will he not then consider it?
12 For vain man would be wise, though man be born like a wild ass's colt.
13 If thou prepare thine heart, and stretch out thine hands toward him;
14 If iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away, and let not wickedness dwell in thy tabernacles.
15 For then shalt thou lift up thy face without spot; yea, thou shalt be stedfast, and shalt not fear:
16 Because thou shalt forget thy misery, and remember it as waters that pass away:
17 And thine age shall be clearer than the noonday; thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning.
18 And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety.
19 Also thou shalt lie down, and none shall make thee afraid; yea, many shall make suit unto thee.
20 But the eyes of the wicked shall fail, and they shall not escape, and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost.

Though Job trusts in God, verse 18 (from Zophars mouth) wants Job to achieve hope through his own works.

We know the friends do not tell the truth.

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Job 12:5
He that is ready to slip with his feet is as a lamp despised in the thought of him that is at ease.

Job is not going to think he stands in his power, but is making sure he stands firm.

Job 12:6
The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.

Job is choosing the path of the suffering servant, rather than Satan's kingdom. The prophetic Christ is speaking.

Job 12:7
But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:

Job is sending everyone to God's creation for knowledge.

Romans 1:19-20
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Job is not digging around in his vain imaginations for the answers (Zophar's comment in 11:18), but just looks about at visible creation.


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Job 12:8
Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind
11 Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?
12 With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
13 With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.
14 Behold, he breaketh down, and it cannot be built again: he shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening.
15 Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.
16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.
17 He leadeth counsellers away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools.
18 He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.
19 He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty.
20 He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.
21 He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty.
22 He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
23 He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.
24 He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
25 They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.

After saying God made everything to learn from, Job lists everything as under the control of God. God is shown to confound the wise, be over rulers, shedding knowledge about death, rules over nations, etc.

Job gives God the glory. Unlike Zophar who put man in control.

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[Deborah13]

Job 12:24 He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
I never noticed this verse before. I believe this can only be a prophecy about Israel. The people overcame Aaron in the wilderness and formed the golden calf. 40 yrs in the wilderness.

 

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Thanks for your comment.

Our traditional view of Job so misses the fulness of Job. There are several more important things in the chapters just covered. We sing. " in the Garden" and study 15 minutes before sleep hits. But we have great and wonderful promices. The catholic thoughts about remaining single (if you have your passions under control) is ok. We gloss over the stress we face as married persons. But. In life we depend on his spirit, confess our sins, and look for his change to take place. His changes in us and not the works of the law. Paul kept the law (guiltless). There went my no man can keep the law. The law just is not designed to provide righteousness. If we keep the law, the sin we offer sacrifices for still misses what Jesus accomplished for us. Oh the need for Holy Spirit inside us (thank you grandma for your prayers).

Why this aside? So We will press on regardless of our condition and heart condemnation (though our heart condemn us he is greater). We see Job keeping on (helped by God). We hear the prophetic statements peeking through, and Job had not the fulness of the things to come . If this book is pre-law (it seems to be) what am I seeing? All will be one in Christ? That great knowledge still depends on power from on high? Panning for gold. Fire to purify. Father - Son - Holy Spirit - all things.


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