Joel Olsteen

[Mike]

I posted something in another thread that I wondered about. I wanted to put it up for discussion.

I don't see how Christians can reconcile Joel Olsteen's theology with scripture. Now, I've only watched about 5 minutes of him. But besides his polished tele-evangelist style, I disagree with his whole ministry. As I understand it, he has it that if you pray for it, and your faith is strong, God will provide it. I've even heard it said that he will go so far as to say that God has no choice but to honor the prayer request of a faithful Christian.

Am I wrong? If I'm right, where is the supporting scripture in that?

 

[Ed the Ned]

In my ignorance I read two of his books and I agree with you. He is not scriptual and as Christians we need to put it out there.

 

[Mike]

In my ignorance I read two of his books and I agree with you. He is not scriptual and as Christians we need to put it out there.

Thanks Ed (who is a Ned?)

My concern is that he has a polished, feel-good ministry that clearly many people have latched on to. I would think that such people have not spent a great amount of time in the Word, and as a result, are not armed to see the major flaws in his theology. You recognized the errors, but obviously many "baby Christians" and seekers get taken way off track and are introduced to a God that is bound to respond to faithful prayers. How many times did Jesus talk about riches in heaven, not here? If someone needs supporting scripture, I would be happy to provide it. But I'd like to hear from someone who supports his message before I go to those lengths.

He's just the most obvious example of people in this camp. Sadly, there are more that follow. Joyce Meyer, although not as far off as he is, supports the premise - as I understand it.

 

[happyjoy]

Joel Osteen is a great minister. He teaches love and kindness. He doesn't say you will get exactly what you pray for, he teaches God will provide you with what is best for you.

I would point out that one can't claim to know much about the man or what he teaches if one doesn't even know what his name is.

 

[happyjoy]

In my ignorance I read two of his books and I agree with you. He is not scriptual and as Christians we need to put it out there.

The scriptures can be distorted to say what ever one wants them to say as can be evidenced here in just about any thread.

 

[Ed the Ned]

Happyjoy, I loved what Joel Osteen had to say. but then does he know anything about the Bible other than trying to sell his church. More people more money. here are some quotes from Larry king live. Tell me how he interpreted scripyure here.

KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?

OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don't go there. I just ...

KING: You have thoughts, though.

OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.

KING: You don't call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don't.

It might be a good idea to actually listen to what he teaches, then read the Bible and compare. There is no comparison he does not know scripture and on talks about being blessed. The Bible talks about deception..........it also talks about Jesus saying I did not know you.
Please explain when the Bible said we are not sinners. WE ALL ARE and as a minister of Christ he needs to be clear. Yes we are not to judge the world but we are ALL SINNERS.

 

[Mike]

I too pulled some quotes from the Larry King interview, but most of them were those that Ed quoted. Here's just a few quotes straight from Osteen with some comments:

“God wants to increase you financially, by giving you promotions, fresh ideas and creativityâ€

“It’s going to happen… Suddenly, your situation will change for the better…He will bring your dreams to passâ€

“God didn’t make you to be average. God created you to excelâ€

Prosperity is more than health and wealth; it includes all the good things life can give. Apparently God is working extra hard to make life easy for us. Such statements leave no room for the cancer patient who does not get better, the factory worker who is laid off and never again finds a comparable job, the athlete who has a career-ending injury.

At best, Osteen waters down the gospel to appeal the the masses in rejecting the importance of faith to inherit eternal life with him. He's a feel good minister and motivational speaker. But some truths of basic Christianity simply can't be left out of a message, even if they might turn off some listeners. Do you read any accounts of Jesus or his disciples holding back on the message of the gospel.

In my ignorance I read two of his books and I agree with you. He is not scriptual and as Christians we need to put it out there.

The scriptures can be distorted to say what ever one wants them to say as can be evidenced here in just about any thread.

But as a Christian you have to pray for discernment to see the truths in scripture. Of course people can distort scripture and pull what they want, but we are tasked with exposing these distortions. Discernment.

 

[happyjoy]

I agree with him. I am not going to claim that so and so is going to go to hell. How would I know? As far as the bible goes I see thread after thread where people say this version or that version is not accurate, or that this line was mistranslated. If bible scholars can't even agree what the bible says what is the point of using it to find the truth?

People find their version of Christianity primarily by being born into it. If you were raised Baptist that is usually what you stay. Same for Catholic, Pentecostal etc. Of those that seek out Christianity most people shop around until they find someone who tells them what they want to hear.

If you are someone who likes to judge others and feel superior there is a church for you to damn others to hell. If you don't think anyone will go to hell there is a church for you. If you didn't do well in school there is a church that will tell you all education of of the devil so you can feel good about yourself. Some churches teach to give to the poor some say it is best to let them suffer and learn a lesson. These aren't different religions, but just flavors of supposedly same religion.

I think I have come to the conclusion that either we all are going to heaven together or we are all going to hell together. Cause if God expects us to sort though this mess called Christianity and find the truth he or she will be in for a shock when no one gets it right.

 

[Mike]

I agree with him. I am not going to claim that so and so is going to go to hell.

I and no one else damns people to hell. God allows people to accept or reject His offer for eternal life. He makes the decision, or rather lets people make the decision for themselves, but only by His power.

If bible scholars can't even agree what the bible says what is the point of using it to find the truth?

So you find no use for the Bible? People who make your claim are usually making an excuse to reject scripture they do not personally find comfortable.

People find their version of Christianity primarily by being born into it. If you were raised Baptist that is usually what you stay. Same for Catholic, Pentecostal etc. Of those that seek out Christianity most people shop around until they find someone who tells them what they want to hear.

Can you find a leader of those groups that deny the basic tenets of Christianity or reject the one way to salvation? There can be some differences with nonsalvation issues, but not core beliefs. Can you find someone from biblical Christianity that will agree with Osteen's "claim-it" theology?

I think I have come to the conclusion that either we all are going to heaven together or we are all going to hell together. Cause if God expects us to sort though this mess called Christianity and find the truth he or she will be in for a shock when no one gets it right.

Coming to your own conclusions without using the Truths found in scripture is dangerous. If you conclude that we are all either going to heaven or hell together, you clearly reject that which defines Christianity.

Happyjoy, I will pray that you truly seek Him and His Truths. The Bible and the Gospel are as basic as you can get in our faith. Deciding on your own what is right and wrong is a grave error. That's not Christianity. That's new ageism.

 

[Relic]

.

I used to like Joel Osteen too. He is a great motivation speaker. But his church is an interfaith church. ALL Faiths are welcome... He doesn't tell anyone that if they are of a certain faith, such as.... the UNITY or the UNIVERSALIST church that they are in a false church. He welcomes all faiths without telling anyone that their home based church is out of line with biblical teachings. Joel Osteen rarely tells people to repent. But he does promote a positive outlook and hope. Never have I ever heard him say anything regarding apostate churches that allow the occultist and New agers who are into occult type activities as members of any church to give up their occult practices. If he has, I've never heard him say anything about it. And I've NEVER heard him tell the homosexual that they live in sin by their choices of living in the life of Sodomy. Osteen just doesn't adress sin.. He'd rather preach the positive. Osteen neglects the issues that are controversial. Jesus didn't do that! Jesus rebuked and told people to repent. Osteen avoids it.

That's my opinon.

.

 

[Caroline H]

Coming to your own conclusions without using the Truths found in scripture is dangerous. If you conclude that we are all either going to heaven or hell together, you clearly reject that which defines Christianity.

Happyjoy, I will pray that you truly seek Him and His Truths. The Bible and the Gospel are as basic as you can get in our faith. Deciding on your own what is right and wrong is a grave error. That's not Christianity. That's new ageism.

And I will pray that too

 

[Mysteryman]

Coming to your own conclusions without using the Truths found in scripture is dangerous. If you conclude that we are all either going to heaven or hell together, you clearly reject that which defines Christianity.

Happyjoy, I will pray that you truly seek Him and His Truths. The Bible and the Gospel are as basic as you can get in our faith. Deciding on your own what is right and wrong is a grave error. That's not Christianity. That's new ageism.

And I will pray that too

And I will pray that too , for there are many doctorines, and there can only be one true one -

 

[jasoncran]

osteen is a false teacher, i'm sorry, but that is reason that the church and america is the way it is today. we forget the cross and seek material blessings.
the lost need to hear repent!

do we all have to tell them via words, no. but we can live out the calling and when they ask tell them the truth and in love.

 

[happyjoy]

osteen is a false teacher, i'm sorry, but that is reason that the church and america is the way it is today. we forget the cross and seek material blessings.
the lost need to hear repent!

do we all have to tell them via words, no. but we can live out the calling and when they ask tell them the truth and in love.

Joel Osteen is not a false teacher. At least not any more false than any other. There is no agreement here or anywhere on what the truth is anyway. People like to hate on Joel because he doesn't tell people they are going to suffer for eternity. So if the Jesus you want to believe in is all fire and brimstone suffering and torment then Joel is not your man. He also doesn't talk about eating human flesh or drinking human blood. People don't speak in weird languages. He doesn't travel around like a circus with people planted in wheel chairs. He isn't saying women are subservient to men. He doesn't hold big conferences where men make Promises to be good during the day then go to strip clubs and bars at night. He doesn't tell you to confess anything to anyone other than God. In the end he isn't a hypocrite, and that goes a long way with me. That church does a lot of good in the world.

 

[jasoncran]

so then by logic we can say that all things are lawful as not all on the earth agree that murder is murder and so on,


i'm sorry christ himself said i am the way, you can only come to the father by me.

osteen wont preach that and that transcript shows that. all he had to say is this
i dont make the rules jesus said that he is the only way. and he is the one that is judge and has said that must be agian. if you havent accepting him as your savior you cant make it two heaven

God is clear.
all are damned without christ in thier hearts.

if you take what he says its a form of the new thought that all paths lead to heaven
we dont condemn them, jesus judges them in heaven, we are to tell them that they need heaven

why is it that men seem to not want to hear and to tell the lost that they are sick and need jesus.sin is terminal. if a doctor told us that we are dying we would accept that. if he know that we are dying and told us a lie an we die surely our loved ones would sue that doc.


jesus is the great physician, and came to heal the sick(lost). so why water that down


dont confuse the battles over non salvinic doctrines here as not knowing the basics.


we dont know all the bible but somethings are so clear.

 

[happyjoy]

so then by logic we can say that all things are lawful as not all on the earth agree that murder is murder and so on,


i'm sorry christ himself said i am the way, you can only come to the father by me.

osteen wont preach that and that transcript shows that. all he had to say is this
i dont make the rules jesus said that he is the only way. and he is the one that is judge and has said that must be agian. if you havent accepting him as your savior you cant make it two heaven

God is clear.
all are damned without christ in thier hearts.

if you take what he says its a form of the new thought that all paths lead to heaven
we dont condemn them, jesus judges them in heaven, we are to tell them that they need heaven

why is it that men seem to not want to hear and to tell the lost that they are sick and need jesus.sin is terminal. if a doctor told us that we are dying we would accept that. if he know that we are dying and told us a lie an we die surely our loved ones would sue that doc.


jesus is the great physician, and came to heal the sick(lost). so why water that down


dont confuse the battles over non salvinic doctrines here as not knowing the basics.


we dont know all the bible but somethings are so clear.

If it is so clear then are you prepared to say that aborted babies, or in fact any child who dies before having the ability to understand, or say the mentally in-firmed, or those living in African tribes or whatever will go to hell? Cause according to what you just said they do. Jesus either died for all of us or he didn't.

 

[jasoncran]

do you know why we the feminist movemen started.
slacker men
an agnostic women noted that she would rather have the the old way back, men and women treat other like crap.her words not mine

i guess being subservient to each other is bad to you.
read that verse you hate in full and you will see that. men are too lead but not by ruling.
its a basic tenet that many mess up.

christ is our husband, we are his bride. he died for us.

the man in the marriage is too lead and also serve his wife, interesting, the wife in return is to accept that position of authority and not rule over the man. she isnt to be his slave nor subject.

the man is to put the lord first then the wife them the kids then himself last

in order to have authority one must submit.

i lead troops in war. they trust me to make the right decisions, by doing that they are submitting to me. i must put them in dangerous positions that may kill them, and i must try to minimize that. even at my own comfort. i will let them eat, sleep before me.

that is what leaders do, others first!

jesus served us first, and greater is he that serves then he that gets in the kindgom!

 

[jasoncran]

you also call the faith a superstition. odd for some one that believes.

i will leave that alone.

africa has heard the gospel.

ever wonder why the people of africa have the problems that they do

in a nut shell

no missionary has ever taught them converts to APPLY their faith to job , to counter atheism and so on,

a kenyan missionary who is a christian apologesist talked about this. he emphasized the christian world view with the gospel.

with the babies, did i ever condemn them, no i leave that for the lord. only he can do that, not me

i do believe in the age of accountability as my sister is mentaly disabled and isnt able to understand sin,

i love when people assume that i dont have those in my family and would say that they are doomed.

i worry about me and tell what the bible says, the lost need jesus, if they reject him,its on them.i want no one to go to hell.

i have lost family members.

my grandma aged 90 and a jew is one.

 

[happyjoy]

do you know why we the feminist movemen started.
slacker men

I haven't read any further than this. The feminist movement did not start do to slacker men. The feminist movement started because women were tired of being treated as property. With no right to vote or even own a home.

 

[happyjoy]

you also call the faith a superstition. odd for some one that believes.

i will leave that alone.

I do not believe faith is superstition. I do believe that superstition has become a substitute for real faith in much of Christianity today. The fear and hatred for education and science being the most obvious of the over arching superstitious beliefs. Then there are the parade of faith healers, snake handlers, and the like.

Martin Luther said that Reason is the enemy of faith. He was wrong.