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Joel Olsteen

jasoncran said:
simple read the book acts and then theres apostle paul who had no home.

in timothy what does it command to those that have money.
it also deals with the poor, if i remember correctly


many of the apostles died poor. that verse may mean riches is heaven.
can god bless us financally yes, but that doesnt mean that we (all of us) are to be wealthy,

what does matt 6:33 seek FIRST THE KINDGDOM OF HEAVEN and all things will be added to you.

if read the verses before that, Jesus was talking about worrying about those fancy clothes and such like and what food you were to eat. he was saying that God will provide for you, that means needs not wants. though he does give more than we could ever ask.
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definitely Jesus did not give money - He gave His life! the money spoken of in the NT was not in the sense of we should all be praying for it and we should all be rich. it becomes an idol and a sense of we MUST be financially well off - idolatry.
 
faithtransforms said:
The bible says "Charge the rich in this world that they be not high-minded".

AGAIN, I am NOT saying people should be trying to pimp God for mansions and Rolls Royce's. But the bible says "Owe no man anything". Guess what that means? We aren't supposed to be in debt! Anti-prosperity people conveniently skip over such statements. And yes, when you seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, all these things will be added unto you. About a year after I got saved, I was so on fire for God it was incredible. I sought the kingdom of God constantly, and you know what God did? He gave me a brand new car, paid for, no car payment, no debt. He's no respector of persons. I had never had a car less than 10 years old in my life!!! (And I was 30 at the time). I wasn't believing God for a new car either, it just happened!

Once AGAIN I will say, I am NOT saying people should be trying to pimp God for mansions and Rolls Royce's. But to have enough to feed your family. To have cars you don't have to fear will break down at every moment, to have money to send your kids to school...yes, I believe God will provide all these things if you continually seek Him, and I mean seek His Face, not His hand.
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God did bless you, but do not think that He will do that for everyone, the Bible does not say that everyone will get a new car, car payments paid, etc. He blessed you in that way and He blesses people in other ways which may or may not be finanically. that's all that i am saying, you are making it sound that because we are all Christians we should be financially well off and many people are not. i know plenty of Christians who did not have money to pay for their kid's colleges - God does not promise a college eduation OR a brand new car.
 
WEALTH:

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 01952
Original Word Word Origin
!wh from the same as (01951) in the sense of (0202)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Hown TWOT - 487a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
hone

Definition
n m
wealth, riches, substance
wealth
price, high value interj
enough, sufficiency


King James Word Usage - Total: 26
rich 11, substance 7, wealth 5, enough 2

As you can see, the hebrew word for wealth was translated as "enough" twice. It was translated as "rich" and "wealth" a total of 16 times.

------
RICHES:

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 06239
Original Word Word Origin
rX[ from (06238)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
`osher TWOT - 1714a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
o'-sher Noun Masculine

Definition
wealth, riches


King James Word Usage - Total: 37
riches 36, far 1

As you can see, "riches" pretty much means riches.
----

So, we're back to how do you explain Psalm 112:1-3?
 
faithtransforms said:
WEALTH:

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 01952
Original Word Word Origin
!wh from the same as (01951) in the sense of (0202)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Hown TWOT - 487a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
hone

Definition
n m
wealth, riches, substance
wealth
price, high value interj
enough, sufficiency


King James Word Usage - Total: 26
rich 11, substance 7, wealth 5, enough 2

As you can see, the hebrew word for wealth was translated as "enough" twice. It was translated as "rich" and "wealth" a total of 16 times.

------
RICHES:

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 06239
Original Word Word Origin
rX[ from (06238)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
`osher TWOT - 1714a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
o'-sher Noun Masculine

Definition
wealth, riches


King James Word Usage - Total: 37
riches 36, far 1

As you can see, "riches" pretty much means riches.
----

So, we're back to how do you explain Psalm 112:1-3?
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if you want to take this verse to mean that ALL Christians should be wealthy, then go ahead and pray riches for yourself if that is where your priorities lie, i will be praying to be conformed to the image of His Son and bear fruit for Him.
God bless -
 
DarcyLu,

My focus is on the Face of God, not the Hand of God. I don't particularly want to be wealthy. But I want enough to be able to be as generous as I love to be. I love giving to missions, feeding programs, orphanages, prison ministries and being able to give more than a tithe at church. I love giving gifts extravagantly. God has truly given me the heart of a cheerful giver. But right now I don't have the ability to do much at all, and I want to be able to do it.

I don't know if I posted it in this thread or another one about my car, so this may be a repeat, but about a year after I got saved, I was on-fire for God, I mean seeking His kingdom and his righteousness ALL THE TIME. And you know what he did? He gave me a brand new car. Paid for. No car payment. Debt free. I had never had a car less than 10 years old!!! And I wasn't "believing" God for a car, he just blessed me with it because I was seeking Him and He knew I needed it. He is no respector of persons. I don't see why he wouldn't do it for someone else.
 
faithtransforms said:
DarcyLu,

My focus is on the Face of God, not the Hand of God. I don't particularly want to be wealthy. But I want enough to be able to be as generous as I love to be. I love giving to missions, feeding programs, orphanages, prison ministries and being able to give more than a tithe at church. I love giving gifts extravagantly. God has truly given me the heart of a cheerful giver. But right now I don't have the ability to do much at all, and I want to be able to do it.

I don't know if I posted it in this thread or another one about my car, so this may be a repeat, but about a year after I got saved, I was on-fire for God, I mean seeking His kingdom and his righteousness ALL THE TIME. And you know what he did? He gave me a brand new car. Paid for. No car payment. Debt free. I had never had a car less than 10 years old!!! And I wasn't "believing" God for a car, he just blessed me with it because I was seeking Him and He knew I needed it. He is no respector of persons. I don't see why he wouldn't do it for someone else.
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that is definitley a gift that He has given you in that you are so willing to give to others, He has called us to love others and in doing so we can help them if we are able to do so. it is better to give than receive. lol Praise God that He gave you a new car also! i am sure He would give that need to someone else, too and He gives us what we do need, not always what we think we need. lol
we probably all have testimonies of how God has brought to us the things we need, i do know He has for me and He has been very faithful to me. He is a good Father for sure. it's been nice chatting with you. :)
God bless you faithtransforms!
 
Yes, I believe every Christian can prosper if they would believe what God has said in His Word. If you stand on Psalm 112:1-3, God will watch over His Word to perform it. He cannot lie. So if He says wealth and riches will be in the house of the righteous, it has to be true. But again, the only way you receive from God is by FAITH. Most people don't believe it, so they don't have it. Yes, there are warnings about money and so forth, and we should never make an idol out of it, but again, how are we supposed to feed the hungry and clothe the naked and preach to those in prison if we don't have MONEY!!! The main purpose of monetary blessing is so that we can bless others, period. The Church is supposed to be the ANSWER to this world's problems.
 
oh,lord the has blessed me as well, new house, this house i'm in. i am the first ocuppier.
that is a blessing. even though with the economy, i'm able to pay extra on my prinicipal(250.00) a month.

however, a greater blessing shall it be when the Lord returns.
 
faithtransforms said:
Yes, I believe every Christian can prosper if they would believe what God has said in His Word. If you stand on Psalm 112:1-3, God will watch over His Word to perform it. He cannot lie. So if He says wealth and riches will be in the house of the righteous, it has to be true. But again, the only way you receive from God is by FAITH. Most people don't believe it, so they don't have it.
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I do not want to come across as argumentative at all here, so please forgive me if I seem that way.

I just cannot see how this verse means literal riches for everyone" who fears the LORD, who greatly delights in his commands." Yes, many Christians do have literal wealth and riches, but it is obvious that God's purpose is NOT for every child of his to have money and things. God does give liberally to ALL who call on His name spiritual gifts and rich blessings that will not burn. You can have a wealth of spiritual blessings that far outshine any earthly wealth. If it is His purpose for one of his children to have an abundance of things or money so that they may be a blessing to others, then hallelujah! :pray But there are many many many Christians around this world who do not live in the blessed country that we do, where wealth is ready for the plucking. What about the Christians in North Korea who are suffering greatly for their faith, do they not have enough faith in God because they don't have wealth? What about those who are being pillaged and murdered by Muslims in Nigeria, they are poor too. No, it isn't because they don't have enough faith, it is because God's purpose for their lives is different than those who God chooses to bless in a different way. They are to be a witness with their lives, physically, not monetarily.

Again, I don't want to sound condescending here. I just think we should be careful of putting everyone in the same box with a statement like "every Christian will prosper if they believe what God has said in His word." Yes, they WILL all prosper, but it won't look like what we think of as prospering in terms of having things....they will prosper (as should we all!) by doing the will of the Father til the end of our lives :pray

God bless
 
I totally understand your point Caroline. :) But I didn't write the 112th Psalm. The Holy Spirit did. And it's either true or it isn't. I'm not sure how it would be possible for Christians in some of these poor nations could prosper, but I believe if they knew it was God's WILL that they prosper and they believed, they could propser. Now what form that would take I do not know. Maybe it would be a way springing up for them to get out of someplace like Nigeria and be blessed to start a business in a neighboring country (just a thought, I don't really know), but I believe there is a way.

I have heard many testimonies from the very poor hearing the prosperity gospel (the TRUE prosperity gospel, not the bling bling gospel) and rising from very deep poverty to become successful, especially in central and south america.

We are in total agreement that earthly blessings cannot even be compared to spiritual blessins, "I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness!" Psa 84:10

The only thing I have ever asked God for besides salvation of family, etc., is for more of His presence, and more revelation of who He is. To KNOW Him. That is the most blessed you can be. But I just think every Christian should believe for prosperity or how can we hope to help those people in Nigeria or North Korea? If it's in the bible, and it will help you bless others, I think we should seriously consider believing for it so we can be the ANSWER!
 
faithtransforms said:
I totally understand your point Caroline. :) But I didn't write the 112th Psalm. The Holy Spirit did. And it's either true or it isn't. I'm not sure how it would be possible for Christians in some of these poor nations could prosper, but I believe if they knew it was God's WILL that they prosper and they believed, they could propser. Now what form that would take I do not know. Maybe it would be a way springing up for them to get out of someplace like Nigeria and be blessed to start a business in a neighboring country (just a thought, I don't really know), but I believe there is a way.

I have heard many testimonies from the very poor hearing the prosperity gospel (the TRUE prosperity gospel, not the bling bling gospel) and rising from very deep poverty to become successful, especially in central and south america.

We are in total agreement that earthly blessings cannot even be compared to spiritual blessins, "I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness!" Psa 84:10

The only thing I have ever asked God for besides salvation of family, etc., is for more of His presence, and more revelation of who He is. To KNOW Him. That is the most blessed you can be. But I just think every Christian should believe for prosperity or how can we hope to help those people in Nigeria or North Korea? If it's in the bible, and it will help you bless others, I think we should seriously consider believing for it so we can be the ANSWER!
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HI

Too much emphasis is put upon one having certain promises that God did not promise !

In I Timothy 6:8 - "And having food and raiment let us be therewith content"

Many misunderstand the word "Prosper". They attach certain wealth or riches or earthly possessions to being prosperous.

The Word tells us, that in giving, we who have more to give , are to give to those who lack, so that there is equality. The one having an abundance, had none left over, and the one lacking, had no lack.

And who is it that makes one prosper ? God, and what is this prosperity for -> I Corinth. 16:2 - "Upon the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come" -- Verse one - "Collection for the saints". Paul was taking this abundance to the saints in Jerusalem, because they had a need.

Bless
 
faithtransforms, I'm not questioning your faith. You just seem to be the only one left in this thread still defending prosperity preaching. :shrug

There is too much scripture I and other people have referenced that speaks to God's promise to fill our cup with spiritual wealth, not "things of this world". By going down this road you're talking about, it can lead to things like "You're poor because your faith is not strong enough." I think you're saying people are poor, because they don't believe or know they can ask things of God and miss out on His gifts.

Prosperity preachers are separated in their own box, because they are preaching a message that is misleading. The extreme prosperity preacher even says God is under command to hear and obey the prayers of the honest faithful. Osteen doesn't go that far, at least I haven't heard that from him, but he does misguide people and confuse the difference between worldly prosperity and spiritual wealth.

We're on a Christian board, and very few people have come to Osteen's defense. I'm not saying we interpret scripture by majority. But this board tends to attract a lot of people who know what scripture says, and we are (at least, I am) asking people to listen to this prosperity message to reconsider where our wealth should be.

You clearly are a Godly woman. I mean no disrespect. :)
 
jasoncran said:
simple read the book acts and then theres apostle paul who had no home.

in timothy what does it command to those that have money.
it also deals with the poor, if i remember correctly


many of the apostles died poor. that verse may mean riches is heaven.
can god bless us financally yes, but that doesnt mean that we (all of us) are to be wealthy,

what does matt 6:33 seek FIRST THE KINDGDOM OF HEAVEN and all things will be added to you.

if read the verses before that, Jesus was talking about worrying about those fancy clothes and such like and what food you were to eat. he was saying that God will provide for you, that means needs not wants. though he does give more than we could ever ask.
Click to expand...

If you read Acts 28:30, you will see that Paul lived comfortably in his own house in Rome for two years. He also said, " I know how to be abased and I know how to abound. He had been both destitute and comfortable at different times. Jesus also said of Paul "He has been shown what things he must suffer for my sake." But can you give me any scriptural evidence that any of the other apostles struggled financially? I'm sure they did at times, like most do, but in all my readings of the NT, I remember nothing about any of the others suffering lack generally speaking. Now they were persecuted yes, but in lack? I don't recall any scriptures implying that.
 
“God wants to increase you financially, by giving you promotions, fresh ideas and creativityâ€

“It’s going to happen… Suddenly, your situation will change for the better…He will bring your dreams to passâ€

“God didn’t make you to be average. God created you to excelâ€

lets look at this

while that may happen to some and it has to me in some way.

excel compare to what? what about using the foolish( us) to confound the wise.

look at some of the great preachers. many were uneducated and reach the lost better then those with, why cause God is doing it no them.

your dreams, hmm my dream has to line up with the lord's plan, does he state that here or anywhere in his church.

what of the cross? laying aside our dreams to live for him. in vocation and others. sure not all are called into the fulltime ministry, but all are called to some work for the lord.


thats where i see fault. he tends to come across as the Lord wants to make a better you, half truth.

upon out repentence its we died and the lord comes in lives in us. we are too let him change us. we die and he becomes more visible.
and hg expresseshim self via our personality as we line up with him.
is that what he preaches.


we are more then a conqeror when we become a christian. does that mean that we wont suffer? no. we shall see some loss but the lord shall supply our needs not our wants



i want a million dollars, should i get it, no
 
that was a house arrest, not exactly free. i know of some that have been under that. you dont leave the house unless its work, church or school and you have to be where you say you go. they have a tracking device on you. violate that and you are arrested.
 
mjjcb said:
faithtransforms, I'm not questioning your faith. You just seem to be the only one left in this thread still defending prosperity preaching. :shrug

There is too much scripture I and other people have referenced that speaks to God's promise to fill our cup with spiritual wealth, not "things of this world". By going down this road you're talking about, it can lead to things like "You're poor because your faith is not strong enough." I think you're saying people are poor, because they don't believe or know they can ask things of God and miss out on His gifts.

Prosperity preachers are separated in their own box, because they are preaching a message that is misleading. The extreme prosperity preacher even says God is under command to hear and obey the prayers of the honest faithful. Osteen doesn't go that far, at least I haven't heard that from him, but he does misguide people and confuse the difference between worldly prosperity and spiritual wealth.

We're on a Christian board, and very few people have come to Osteen's defense. I'm not saying we interpret scripture by majority. But this board tends to attract a lot of people who know what scripture says, and we are (at least, I am) asking people to listen to this prosperity message to reconsider where our wealth should be.

You clearly are a Godly woman. I mean no disrespect. :)
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Thanks :) Like I have said, I do not ask God for things material. I'm not sure if I've EVER asked Him for even one material thing. But I have sought first the kingdom, and MANY things have been added to me. Things I could never dream of and things I could never have accomplished for myself and CERTAINLY do not deserve. I agree we should be content with food and clothing for ourselves. But we need MONEY to accomplish the will of God! Feeding the poor, clothing the naked, etc. There is way too much in Psalms and Proverbs about wealth and riches in the house of the righteous for there not to be something to it. And we have been made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, so we qualify. Also, I do NOT support ALL prosperity teachers. But there are some who preach a balanced gospel that includes prosperity and I agree with them. And in regard to knowing scripture, I've read the whole NT probably at least 10 times and some books probably 50 fifty times or more. I KNOW scripture. (Not trying to brag, but you had brought that up.) I have no husband, no kids, and no friends in my area (my church is an hour away), so I have plenty of time to spend in God's Word, which is why I know scripture so well, LOL.

There is nothing better than someone on fire for God except for someone on fire for God with money, because they can do a lot of damage to satan's kingdom by feeding the poor, clothing the naked, funding missions, dropping a few hundred dollars anonymously in the mailbox of a friend who just got laid off. The possibilities are endless. Money doesn't HAVE TO become an idol. God can give you understanding in this area. The money you have has to be at God's disposal always AND all of your possessions also so that you can bless people. God may bless you with a beautiful piece of jewelry, and then 6 months later He may tell you to give it to a battered woman at a shelter. You must be willing at all times to do what God asks you to do with the blessings you have received.

And with regard to Joel Osteen, I'm not fond of him particularly, I just think he means well, that's all.
 
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