Joel Olsteen

[jasoncran]

i know of an elder in my church who has no job for two yrs. and he is surviving but thats it.
needs met, not this oh he has a new car given to him or this or that.
i'm not saying that doesnt happen, but with the pentacostal groups. they seem to impress that give you will always get things in the material. simply not true.

i have found that we also get healed and also trials. yes trials to purge of sin. that is a blessing you know.

god is more concerned with our souls and what state they are in then the material things we have. better believe it.

 

[faithtransforms]

faithtransforms, I wonder if you would care to comment on this. And then tell me how this line of thought is compatible with the idea of prosperity preaching...

Let me ask you this. If you want a boat. You really want a boat. Is there a chance the love for a boat could become a wedge between you and a meaningful relationship with God? Could that boat become a sort of obsession that turns out to distract you from the quiet time you're talking about? Could this boat become so important that you would do anything to keep it? Now, backing up a few questions, could the forces of evil know your weakness for this love and convince someone to talk to you about selling their boat to you? Could they suggest that your price that you are willing to pay is acceptable, and that your price you're willing to pay is better than nothing at all?

I don't obsess with getting things from God or hearing the answer I want to hear. Whether the Lord says "yes", "no" or "wait", I pray for a heart that rejoices in His will for me. Getting "things" isn't necessarily a "blessing". Having them isn't wrong. Making them important enough to become an idol is. Finding "no" or "wait" to mean that you aren't being blessed is wrong.

I'm just using "I" to make my point. I'm not saying "I do this. Look at me". I believe there are people much more blessed by not having prayer requests answered they way they would want. Alternatively, I would say there are some people who are cursed with things that come to stand in the way of a relationship with God.

Thanks Faith!

You're right, in the case of that boat, it was made an idol. So that would be wrong. But the bible says God gives us all things richly to enjoy. He doesn't mind if we ENJOY ourselves, as long as it doesn't come before Him.

Like I said, I don't ask God for things, I'm not sure I've EVER asked for things. I just seek Him. And He has blessed me abundantly for it. I would definitely question someone's motive if they prayed to God for a diamond ring or expensive dress or something like that. God may well give you things like that to bless you. But that is at HIS will, I don't think you should be praying for it. The bible also says "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart." I have found that to be the absolute truth.

Here is one example. I was on my local SPCA website looking for a companion for my Chihuahua. While I was looking, I saw a 14 yr old Pomeranian. I though, who in the heck gives up an old dog to the pond? That dog deserves a loving home to spend the rest of her days. My mom loves Pomeranians, and I tried to get her to adopt it and she said no. Well, I prayed that God would lay that little dog on my mom's heart. Then I repented because I don't want to pray MY will. Well, one of my mother's dogs went missing. So she had to go to the pound. She fell in love with the little dog and the lady that worked there said if you will adopt her, I will pay for her adoption fee and to get her teeth fixed. That's like $400!!! That has the fingerprints of God all over it. He knew it was my heart's desire that this little dog have a loving home. He did it for me. Well, we found my mom's dog. So all is wll and now the little pom pom has a home! THAT'S GOD!!!

 

[jasoncran]

i honestly belive that God does use trials to bless us. though we dont see it that way.

we cry when we lost that job, then praise him when he gives us a lower paying one and we are praying more and in church more.

we belly ache at that sickness and when we are sick we are closer to God then before and now have a testimony that is unshakeable, yet is that not a blessing?

other are blessed by our suffering and some even hear and repent and even others believe that he can heal.

i went through a year of hell upon my return from afghanistan, i almost divorced, lost a place, had to live with my wifes heathen cousin. yet after that all changed, i grew in the Lord.

the flesh needs to die.

 

[faithtransforms]

I totally agree, God is FAR MORE interested in our spiritual riches than monetary wealth in this life. However, I just happen to believe He wants us to prosper as well. And by prospering I mean you have a decent place to live, a decent car, enough to buy food, something left over to give to the poor and to your church, etc.

Even the most faithful Christians, if they don't KNOW God wants to bless them, than they cannot use their FAITH to receive the blessings.

Like I said, I don't ask God for "things", but I know He wants to bless me and I believe I will receive it, whatever blessing He chooses to bestow.

 

[jasoncran]

even with the little we have we can bless others, see the blind man in acts healed by john and peter. no money for that was given.

with the copelands, i have observed from your posts that they say that having the Good things is a sign of blessing

then what of those that pray for a car and get a klunker, it gets them too and fro yet is total junk. is that not a blessing when they used to to borrow a car or use a taxi, or use the age old pete and repeat your way around?

or they have no clothes and the church donates the used ones to them.
is that not a blessing?

 

[faithtransforms]

i honestly belive that God does use trials to bless us. though we dont see it that way.

we cry when we lost that job, then praise him when he gives us a lower paying one and we are praying more and in church more.

we belly ache at that sickness and when we are sick we are closer to God then before and now have a testimony that is unshakeable, yet is that not a blessing?

other are blessed by our suffering and some even hear and repent and even others believe that he can heal.

i went through a year of hell upon my return from afghanistan, i almost divorced, lost a place, had to live with my wifes heathen cousin. yet after that all changed, i grew in the Lord.

the flesh needs to die.

Oh yes, the bible is clear that we will go through trials and in Romans 5 it talks about rejoicing it our trials because it produces patience, hope, longsuffering, etc.

I think I've told you Jason, but in January 2009, I lost my job suddenly. But I just couldn't IMAGINE God letting my life fall apart. I just didn't believe he would allow that. So I decided to stay positive and believe God. Well about a month later, the Holy Spirit told me to sow a large offering into my church. All I had to live on was my tax return and I don't have any kids so it wasn't extravagant. But I sowed that seed in obedience, I knew the Holy Spirit had spoken to me. I didn't give the offering so I could get a job, I just gave it because I felt God told me to do it. When I actually gave the offering, I prayed to God that I was sowing this seed that my friend Bernard would get saved. Now he's the most skeptical person you could ever meet. He is all about logic and science and evolution and believed a lot in Buddhist doctrine etc. And we know the things of God seem foolish to the carnal mind. Well, I sowed the seed and a month later I had an excellent job with a strong company. I get top of the line benefits for $110 per month...$110 per month! That's crazy. Then 3 months later, my friend got saved. Ya'll may not agree with my theology, but I'm getting blessed left and right and all I'm doing is seeking the face of God. Hmmm...I wonder why so many others aren't being blessed? Because they don't undertand that God wants to bless them!!! He blesses me richly with spiritual blessings as well, but he takes care of my needs according to His RICHES in GLORY! He's NOT STINGEY! He loves to give good things to His children!!!

 

[jasoncran]

here we go again, i bought a car that i was told to that the lord would provide, i doubted and he brought it to pass.

heres the clincher, this car was totaled to weeks later by no fault of my own and i was permantely injured along with my girlfriend at that time.

if i had to do it over, i would not but that car again so as to keep that back pain that i get all the time away. this blessing turned out to be another as i sued and settled and got out of debt that i incurred. this was told me that the Lord would do this.remove a burden.

but its a cost that is high. as i would love to be in perfect back health, oh those days of no neck paina constant tension in my lats and rhomboids or low back.

through of all of this i was able to go to college, and also other things.i also bought a clunker that i learned how to fix,man that sentra took me everywhere,but it was no blessing like you say we should get all the time. i had to work on that thing.

it become on later as i look back, i learned to avoid buy here pay here places and also fix brakes and such like.

the bronco 2 that i got was another one. i worked on that one alot, it lasted till i got the Nissan frontier, which now needs a paint job.


yes , i have been blessed, but my piont is see how this blessing of mine has had some thorns to it.

s

 

[jasoncran]

the irony of it all, i believe in healing more then i did before. this is my injury

neck no curve or spineous process, c3 bulging
l4,l5 discs herinated
permanent nerve damage on the right side to the medial nerve
periodic headaches.

when i was first injured my hands were on fire and i couldnt reach my toes without seroius pain for days.headaches almost daily.

feet on fire.
most of this is gone. shoot i can even do yoga exercises!

by paying tithes, i was blessed to recieve( my wife) her ssdi quickly and i was able to get out of debt and buy this house i'm in.

but it hasnt always been that way nor should we expect every single great blessing for being faithful.

 

[Mike]

This is a circular discussion that is going no where. We're not going to convince you that there's something wrong in "Claim it" theology, and you're not going to convince us that there isn't. I need to check out of this thread before I make myself crazy. All we're doing is repeating our own messages and expecting the other to change their view.

Faith, you have a beautiful love for God, but so many of the "claim it" "prosperity" followers are being misled before they ever get a foundation of biblical faith. I believe this sets them up to have distorted expectation from their new faith.

You won't agree, but that's my opinion and that of main stream biblical Christians.

We'll just agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[jasoncran]

This is a circular discussion that is going no where. We're not going to convince you that there's something wrong in "Claim it" theology, and you're not going to convince us that there isn't. I need to check out of this thread before I make myself crazy. All we're doing is repeating our own messages and expecting the other to change their view.

Faith, you have a beautiful love for God, but so many of the "claim it" "prosperity" followers are being misled before they ever get a foundation of biblical faith. I believe this sets them up to have distorted expectation from their new faith.

You won't agree, but that's my opinion and that of main stream biblical Christians.

We'll just agree to disagree I suppose.

agreed. i'm done.

 

[happyjoy]

This is a circular discussion that is going no where. We're not going to convince you that there's something wrong in "Claim it" theology, and you're not going to convince us that there isn't. I need to check out of this thread before I make myself crazy. All we're doing is repeating our own messages and expecting the other to change their view.

Faith, you have a beautiful love for God, but so many of the "claim it" "prosperity" followers are being misled before they ever get a foundation of biblical faith. I believe this sets them up to have distorted expectation from their new faith.

You won't agree, but that's my opinion and that of main stream biblical Christians.

We'll just agree to disagree I suppose.

I agree with both of or all of you for the most part, except for one part. Joel Osteen doesn't preach prosperity gospel. He preaches hope and faith, and not "prosperity gospel". One can believe that working hard will pay off, and not fall for the shame of claim it theology.

Joel Osteen not sham prosperity or claim it theology.

Roberto Tilton is the one who has that scam running. With his vow of faith non stop telethon.

 

[RaymondKroft]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...and lots of smiles.