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Joel Osteen, good or bad

Free said:
But that isn't the entire truth, is it? That is just a small sample of all that the Bible says about such things. The prosperity gospel is a very harmful, false gospel.
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No. Actually I think John put it ALL into prospective in one short verse.

Don't get me wrong I think there are teachers of God's children prospering that are so far out of line that it actually teaches greed. If you have ever read my posts about tithing that is taught from Malachi you'd know that.
So my response to your post was as narrow as your post.
Are these things, blessings, happy, mountains, etc. found in the Bible? Yes, they are. But I think that verse in John puts it all into prospective.
 
Chopper said:
Year before last I watched Joel every Sunday for a very long time. His messages were designed to promote the people to feel good about themselves. He would use a Scripture and then in his friendly way he would persuade his hearers to see how a bad idea (sin) effected their own lives. He would offer Salvation at the end of his message, but his message was lacking the meat of the Word. He offered milk over and over. His type of preaching does not equip believers with the necessary knowledge to live above real sin, real dedication to our Lord. There just seemed to be to much fluff.
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Very well said Chopper.
I, too, once watched Joel for a very long time.
I got bored with his message.
But what goes on in his church, do you know?
How many pastors, elders, deacons, teachers, and workers are there in that church helping people with their walk with Christ everyday?
Have you heard of any complaints on the internet?
People watching on tv need to get into a Bible believing church and be discipled.
Doesn't he say they need to get into a Bible believing church?
We can't put the entire onus on him.
He has a calling.
We all need to chip in.
 
iLOVE said:
Start the time at approximately 4:20.
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I can see why you are confused. He says, can a homosexual go to heaven? Yes, if they have been saved by the grace of God, but they forsake or lose their reward. He also said that if he is saved then he is deceived.
Then he goes on to say that they can abstain through power in Christ, it's a choice.

That just shows how time limits on teachings about such serious matters cannot be considered a full teaching and we should not judge by a short statement. Charles Stanley is one of my favorites. If I were to guess at what he believes it would be, that if they saved God will straighten them out, that they will come to repent, but I can't say that for sure.
 
Deborah13 said:
and......?
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my point is if I did that and said nothing of whom I am,and quoted the tanach. you all would assume that im a Christian. now then Chopper , since he mentions precept upon precept and deep biblical teaching with conviction. I have went through a tinge of that. 100 students at the start, three months later less then half. the chapter on forgiveness is where they up and leave. how hard is it to let go? apparently very difficult.
 
reba said:
iLOVE what i heard was only with abstinence
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,
Deborah13 said:
No. Actually I think John put it ALL into prospective in one short verse.

Don't get me wrong I think there are teachers of God's children prospering that are so far out of line that it actually teaches greed. If you have ever read my posts about tithing that is taught from Malachi you'd know that.
So my response to your post was as narrow as your post.
Are these things, blessings, happy, mountains, etc. found in the Bible? Yes, they are. But I think that verse in John puts it all into prospective.
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what john said was called shalom. peace and blessing from god, it doesn't mean wealth. jermaiah was a prophet and he was faithful, and was he wealthy?paul how did he die? did he have wealth all the time? NO
 
jasonc said:
my point is if I did that and said nothing of whom I am,and quoted the tanach. you all would assume that im a Christian. now then Chopper , since he mentions precept upon precept and deep biblical teaching with conviction. I have went through a tinge of that. 100 students at the start, three months later less then half. the chapter on forgiveness is where they up and leave. how hard is it to let go? apparently very difficult.
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Yup very difficult sometimes. It took me 20 yrs. to forgive one person and if God hadn't step in I still would not have forgiven that one person.
 
Deborah13 said:
Yup very difficult sometimes. It took me 20 yrs. to forgive one person and if God hadn't step in I still would not have forgiven that one person.
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you choose to hold on that. god was willing all along to give you the strength to let go.
 
jasonc said:
,

what john said was called shalom. peace and blessing from god, it doesn't mean wealth. jermaiah was a prophet and he was faithful, and was he wealthy?paul how did he die? did he have wealth all the time? NO
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Ah...no. Take a look at the Greek. There are many ways of being prosperous including wealth. There are many ways of being healthy including in our bodies.
 
jasonc said:
you choose to hold on that. god was willing all along to give you the strength to let go.
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Yes, of coarse I was choosing to hold on to it. There was safety there was how I saw it, safety from myself and from that person. There's safety in anger, it makes a wall to keep from being hurt.
 
Deborah13 said:
Ah...no. Take a look at the Greek. There are many ways of being prosperous including wealth. There are many ways of being healthy including in our bodies.
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its not guaranteed. the problem with your argument is the the initial audenience were jews. not greeks or other greek speakers. the poor Hebrew who knew only Hebrew wouldn't see the greek but shalom. that is like saying hades is now what sheol is, as the greek used in revalation is hades. but hades is greek. a koine greek speaker in my unit would agree that Christians "stole" words and changed their meanings. hades is such a word.

so by serving god. im GUARANTEED to be a billionaire?
 
jasonc said:
its not guaranteed. the problem with your argument is the the initial audenience were jews. not greeks or other greek speakers. the poor Hebrew who knew only Hebrew wouldn't see the greek but shalom. that is like saying hades is now what sheol is, as the greek used in revalation is hades. but hades is greek. a koine greek speaker in my unit would agree that Christians "stole" words and changed their meanings. hades is such a word.

so by serving god. im GUARANTEED to be a billionaire?
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You are not hearing what I am saying. It is not the same thing that many prosperity preachers preach.
They say give God money and He will give you money back. That is not what John was saying and that's not what I am saying.
John spoke those words After the gentiles were a part of the church and the poor Hebrews...many of them spoke Greek, they had been Hellenized, many lived outside of Israel. That is why the rabbis translated the OT into Greek, so they could read it.
 
Deborah13 said:
You are not hearing what I am saying. It is not the same thing that many prosperity preachers preach.
They say give God money and He will give you money back. That is not what John was saying and that's not what I am saying.
John spoke those words After the gentiles were a part of the church and the poor Hebrews...many of them spoke Greek, they had been Hellenized, many lived outside of Israel. That is why the rabbis translated the OT into Greek, so they could read it.
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that is shalom. shalom doesn't guarantee that one will be blessed with things at all times, nor with even if I live the torah that my child will be pleasing to god or good one. I can live holy all I want. it may reduce some of the trials but satan will heap many on me, I may love my wife in the lord theres no guarantee she would come to him. you just described shalom.
 
jasonc said:
that is shalom. shalom doesn't guarantee that one will be blessed with things at all times, nor with even if I live the torah that my child will be pleasing to god or good one. I can live holy all I want. it may reduce some of the trials but satan will heap many on me, I may love my wife in the lord theres no guarantee she would come to him. you just described shalom.
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Deborah 13, not all poor Hebrews spoke greek. peter didn't. remember they had scribes that wrote for them that could translate.the rabbis could speak greek and remember how they thought of the apostles. poor and unlettered. in yeshiva then if they had that, they would teach the greek classics to the Hebrew male rabbi wannabe and then teach him how to debate that stuff. of the apostle how many were rabbis? oh ONE PAUL! the hellinistic greeks came from those that weren't in isreal and stayed in the other lands and forgot to speek Hebrew. that is why the lxx was printed for in part. for them!
 
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