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Joel Osteen, good or bad

Knotical said:
Just to name a couple, the lady who touched his robe when moving through a crown, then there is the thief on the cross who admonished the other one. Both are examples where these people showed repentant hearts and Jesus told them their salvation is secure.
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1. How is that different than asking for mercy?
2. Are you saying the thief rebuking the other thief opened the door for salvation to be possible?
3. Are you saying that when I received Jesus and was immediately filled with the Holy Spirit, that I was not yet saved because I hadn't yet repented?
4. In the book of Acts, when the Gentiles heard the Word of God and started speaking in tongues, that they were not yet saved because they hadn't yet repented?
5. Where is this teaching by the writers of the New Testament?
If it were true, surely Paul would have emphasized it somewhere?
 
Willie T said:
I'm curious................. Is there a verse in the Bible that says, "Repent of your sins"? I've found several that say, "Repent, then be forgiven of your sins", or something similar to that, but I'm still looking for the one that says we repent of sins.
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I did find one...... Matthew 3:2. But it only reads that way from the "Living" translation or version.... none of the other 70 some.
 
allenwynne said:
1. How is that different than asking for mercy?
2. Are you saying the thief rebuking the other thief opened the door for salvation to be possible?
3. Are you saying that when I received Jesus and was immediately filled with the Holy Spirit, that I was not yet saved because I hadn't yet repented?
4. In the book of Acts, when the Gentiles heard the Word of God and started speaking in tongues, that they were not yet saved because they hadn't yet repented?
5. Where is this teaching by the writers of the New Testament?
If it were true, surely Paul would have emphasized it somewhere?
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It is the Holy Spirit that quickens us to an understanding that we are sinful beings and that we must repent and ask forgiveness of all our sins, especially when we ask Jesus to be our Savior. This is all throughout Paul's teachings.
 
allenwynne said:
1. How is that different than asking for mercy?
2. Are you saying the thief rebuking the other thief opened the door for salvation to be possible?
3. Are you saying that when I received Jesus and was immediately filled with the Holy Spirit, that I was not yet saved because I hadn't yet repented?
4. In the book of Acts, when the Gentiles heard the Word of God and started speaking in tongues, that they were not yet saved because they hadn't yet repented?
5. Where is this teaching by the writers of the New Testament?
If it were true, surely Paul would have emphasized it somewhere?
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What are you calling, "repented", here?
No one can change their mind from not believing in Jesus, to believing in Him without repenting... because that is the meaning of the word, "repent".... to change one's mind, and choose another way.
 
Willie T said:
What are you calling, "repented", here?
No one can change their mind from not believing in Jesus, to believing in Him without repenting... because that is the meaning of the word, "repent".... to change one's mind, and choose another way.
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My whole response is based on post #191.
Then you will see why I said what I said.
 
Knotical said:
It is the Holy Spirit that quickens us to an understanding that we are sinful beings and that we must repent and ask forgiveness of all our sins, especially when we ask Jesus to be our Savior. This is all throughout Paul's teachings.
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John 6:29: NIV
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent".
By grace, through faith, we are to believe in Jesus.
This is our salvation.
You cannot add to that.
 
allenwynne said:
My whole response is based on post #191.
Then you will see why I said what I said.
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Maybe I'm not reading this, or #191, right. But it still seems you are saying we are somehow required to have quit sinning to be saved. This doesn't seem to fly because we know at least Peter sinned the night Jesus was betrayed... and was still sinning 40 years later when he discriminated against the gentiles, and Paul called him out about it.... And likely all the other Apostles did too, at some time.... Paul seems to indicate that he fought it all the time.
 
Willie T said:
Maybe I'm not reading this, or #191, right. But it still seems you are saying we are somehow required to have quit sinning to be saved. This doesn't seem to fly because we know at least Peter sinned the night Jesus was betrayed... and was still sinning 40 years later when he discriminated against the gentiles, and Paul called him out about it.... And likely all the other Apostles did too, at some time.... Paul seems to indicate that he fought it all the time.
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Not me.
You have lost it somewhere.
My belief is in post #207.
 
allenwynne said:
John 6:29: NIV
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent".
By grace, through faith, we are to believe in Jesus.
This is our salvation.
You cannot add to that.
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So, from what you are saying we are merely saved because we believe. There is nothing beyond that. There is not need for repentance or request for forgiveness. This line of thinking ultimately concludes that we can live however we wish and not have to worry about anything.

Is this truly what you are suggesting?
 
The thief on the cross had this faith he believed who Jesus was and his faith was imputed to him accounted to him as righteousness.. :)

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

tob
 
Knotical said:
So, from what you are saying we are merely saved because we believe. There is nothing beyond that. There is not need for repentance or request for forgiveness. This line of thinking ultimately concludes that we can live however we wish and not have to worry about anything.

Is this truly what you are suggesting?
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I've never suggested any such thing.
This line of thinking ultimately concludes who has faith and who doesn't.
 
allenwynne said:
Here's a couple of minutes of Joel Osteen with Oprah.
What do you think?

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Good or bad? The problem with Joel Olsteen is one of theology more than anything. He is very careful not to offend and he presents himself as a kind benevolent person, but he's leading a church that does not preach the Gospel.

At best he presents a lightweight watered down brand of Christianity. He speaks Christian-"nese" so it sounds like he's speaking the biblical truth, but he conveys a different message than the Gospel.

Joel speaks about God wanting to be your friend, and how He just loves everybody, and He wants you to be healthy and comfortable in this life, and how He wants to fulfill all your desires and ambitions....and that's just not true. That's not the God of the bible.

God is certainly a God of Love and Mercy and Forgiveness, but Gods will for us is that we might do, and live in His will. This world is fallen and evil, and we are fallen sinners. This is more than just how we behave, this is about the very nature of mankind, repentance, salvation and the Christian life. Joel does not preach or teach any of that. It may be because he does not know it, or it may be something more sinister.

This man makes a LOT of money, and he lives very richly, and all that money and comfort comes from the very people he speaks to. I don't fault Joel Olsteen. At best He's just doing what a fallen, worldly man does; trying to gain the worlds favor; trying to be liked and popular, and comfortable, and rich.....and if anyone thinks that's OK, then they are also just doing what this world does.
 
Danus said:
Good or bad? The problem with Joel Olsteen is one of theology more than anything. He is very careful not to offend and he presents himself as a kind benevolent person, but he's leading a church that does not preach the Gospel.

At best he presents a lightweight watered down brand of Christianity. He speaks Christian-"nese" so it sounds like he's speaking the biblical truth, but he conveys a different message than the Gospel.

Joel speaks about God wanting to be your friend, and how He just loves everybody, and He wants you to be healthy and comfortable in this life, and how He wants to fulfill all your desires and ambitions....and that's just not true. That's not the God of the bible.

God is certainly a God of Love and Mercy and Forgiveness, but Gods will for us is that we might do, and live in His will. This world is fallen and evil, and we are fallen sinners. This is more than just how we behave, this is about the very nature of mankind, repentance, salvation and the Christian life. Joel does not preach or teach any of that. It may be because he does not know it, or it may be something more sinister.

This man makes a LOT of money, and he lives very richly, and all that money and comfort comes from the very people he speaks to. I don't fault Joel Olsteen. At best He's just doing what a fallen, worldly man does; trying to gain the worlds favor; trying to be liked and popular, and comfortable, and rich.....and if anyone thinks that's OK, then they are also just doing what this world does.
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I certainly don't given the mixed messages he has given in the past and even now he is still fluffy, I don't think I will listen to him. now to be fair I lived near his church, I would listen and see what he does say and observe him. the internet tends to distort people. it makes them bigger then they are or something they may not be.
 
jasonc said:
I certainly don't given the mixed messages he has given in the past and even now he is still fluffy, I don't think I will listen to him. now to be fair I lived near his church, I would listen and see what he does say and observe him. the internet tends to distort people. it makes them bigger then they are or something they may not be.
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That would be more than fair, in my view that is just.
 
Deborah13 said:
That would be more than fair, in my view that is just.
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you may thank medina for that suggestion. he listens to osteen. medina, while I don't agree with him on end times is a real man of god. he does what he teaches. he doesn't get into deep theological arguments but simply focus on what I call torah. live the clear stuff and trust god for the rest. its hard enough doing that.
 
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes. They will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life. 15 Outside the city are the dogs (homosexuals)—the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers (including gossip, slander), the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie (untruth, error, deception, cheating). Revelation 22:14-15 NLT

These believers mentioned above will be left outside the city (holy city, new Jerusalem) without glorified bodies but will have eternal life. They will not go to hell! However they will forfeit their five heavenly crowns mentioned in the New Testament; The Imperishable Crown – (1 Corinthians 9:24-25), The Crown of Rejoicing – (1 Thessalonians 2:19), (Revelation 21:4)., The Crown of Righteousness – (2 Timothy 4:8), The Crown of Glory – (1 Peter 5:4), and The Crown of Life – (Revelation 2:10), (James 1:12) . They will need the leaves of the tree for the healing of the nations - Revelation 22:2 NIV.

The only requirement to be saved is: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16 NASB
 
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So, you're saying it's "tough luck" for these guys?

1 Corinthians 6:8-11English Standard Version (ESV)
8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers![a]
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[b] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[c] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
 
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