JOHN MACARTHUR

[JLB]

No.
John 1:12-13:
"To all who received Him, who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

ἔδωκεν (edōken) - Aorist active indicative of δίδωμι (didōmi), meaning "He gave" or "He granted." The aorist tense here signifies a completed action--God granting sonship to believers.

γεννηθέντες (gennēthentes) - Aorist passive participle of γεννάω (gennaō), meaning "having been born." This indicates that the new birth is an act performed by God, not by human effort.

The emphasis here is on a completed transformation--those who are born of God become His children, implying a fundamental change in spiritual identity.

1 John 3:9-10:
"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil..."

γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos) - Perfect passive participle of γεννάω (gennaō), meaning "having been born" or "begotten." The perfect tense indicates a completed action with ongoing results-being born of God is not a temporary state but a permanent identity.

ἁμαρτάνειν (hamartanein) - Present infinitive of ἁμαρτάνω (hamartanō), meaning "to sin." The present tense here indicates a continuous, habitual action rather than an occasional lapse.

The distinction between children of God and children of the devil lies in their ongoing conduct and spiritual lineage. Those who are truly born of God cannot persist in habitual sin because God’s seed (σπέρμα - sperma) abides in them.


The Johannine epistles emphasize a clear dichotomy between the children of God and the children of the devil, rooted in spiritual rebirth and ongoing moral transformation. The perfect tense used in 1 John 3:9 emphasizes that once someone is born of God, this identity endures.

Moreover, the phrase "God’s seed abides" (σπέρμα αὐτοῦ μένει - sperma autou menei) emphasizes permanence. The verb μένει (menei), present active indicative of μένω (menō), means "remains" or "abides," indicating a continuous state.

The text does not suggest that a true child of God can lose this status and become a child of the devil. Instead, it delineates between those who were never truly regenerated (even if they appeared religious) and those who are genuinely born of God.


A true child of God, having been reborn by God’s will and possessing God’s abiding seed, cannot revert to being a child of the devil. The permanent nature of the new birth, as conveyed by the perfect and present tense verbs, affirms that spiritual transformation in Christ is irrevocable.

I can provide many more examples from Scripture, particularly from the Pauline epistles...in short, I disagree with your proposal.

Johann.

I’m discussing lost and how it’s used in scripture.

Do you believe the lost need salvation?

 

[JLB]

No I don't.

Well here’s what you just said -

we did belong to God before sin came into the world. Then we became children of the devil.

 

[Johann!@#]

I’m discussing lost and how it’s used in scripture.

Do you believe the lost need salvation?

I’m discussing the term "lost" and how it’s used in Scripture...it seems we’re having a communication issue. I’ve already answered your question, so I don’t see the need to keep repeating myself.

J.

 

[JLB]

I’m discussing the term "lost" and how it’s used in Scripture...it seems we’re having a communication issue. I’ve already answered your question, so I don’t see the need to keep repeating myself.

I asked you a very simple and easy question that any Christian should be able to answer.

Do the lost need salvation?

I apologize if you answered it and I didn’t see your answer?

What post number was since you can’t simply give me a yes or no.

If you believe the lost do need salvation, and that the word lost in the scriptures I quoted refers to someone who was once saved, being His sheep, then why the big push back?

Why do people push so hard against the plain and clear, very simple to understand words of Jesus Christ?

 

[JLB]

So you don't think it's possible for one person to lose something that belongs to another? If there is no Bible verse that says it's possible, does that mean it is impossible?

It’s clear what I believe because I have stated what I believe with the supporting scriptures.

I believe lost means, in need of salvation.

I believe a person must first posses something in order to lose it.

Lost refers to people who are no longer saved, no longer justified, no longer spiritually alive, because they have returned to being a sinner, which means no longer connected to Jesus Christ; no longer joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

 

[JLB]

No I don't.

Your post you made says otherwise.

Here is what you said -

• we did belong to God before sin came into the world. Then we became children of the devil.

But in our case, we did belong to God before sin came into the world. Then we became children of the devil. God sent His Son to save us who were lost to sin. This is the 5th time I have said the same thing, and you're still asking me the same thing.

This is not the fifth time.

You plainly said… we did belong to God before sin came into the world. Then we became children of the devil.


So I asked this question…

So you agree then a child of God can return to being a child of devil in which we are lost?


Now you are saying you disagree agree that we can belong to God, then become children of the devil.

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

My position is someone who belongs to Christ the becomes lost, needs salvation.

Why is this difficult to understand?

 

[Johann!@#]

I asked you a very simple and easy question that any Christian should be able to answer.

Do the lost need salvation?

I apologize if you answered it and I didn’t see your answer?

What post number was since you can’t simply give me a yes or no.

If you believe the lost do need salvation, and that the word lost in the scriptures I quoted refers to someone who was once saved, being His sheep, then why the big push back?

Why do people push so hard against the plain and clear, very simple to understand words of Jesus Christ?

Already answered.

J.

 

[JLB]

Already answered.

J.

I apologize if you answered it and I didn’t see your answer?

Well that’s what you said before, and I asked you to please tell me the post number because I didn’t see it.

I asked you a very simple and easy question that any Christian should be able to answer.

Do the lost need salvation?

I apologize if you answered it and I didn’t see your answer?

What post number was since you can’t simply give me a yes or no.

If you believe the lost do need salvation, and that the word lost in the scriptures I quoted refers to someone who was once saved, being His sheep, then why the big push back?

Why do people push so hard against the plain and clear, very simple to understand words of Jesus Christ?

Do the lost need salvation?

If you believe the lost do need salvation, and that the word lost in the scriptures I quoted refers to someone who was once saved, being one His sheep, then why do you agree with OSAS?

 

[Johann!@#]

I apologize if you answered it and I didn’t see your answer?

Well that’s what you said before, and I asked you to please tell me the post number because I didn’t see it.



Do the lost need salvation?

If you believe the lost do need salvation, and that the word lost in the scriptures I quoted refers to someone who was once saved, being one His sheep, then why do you agree with OSAS?

Does being a supporter of this forum give you the right and authority to question my beliefs and why I believe OSAS is thoroughly biblical?

Ever done a deep study on the Pauline epistles?

J.

 

[JLB]

Does being a supporter of this forum give you the right and authority to question my beliefs and why I believe OSAS is thoroughly biblical?

Ever done a deep study on the Pauline epistles?

J.

Funny.

I’m having a simple discussion about the word lost.

I asked you this question?

Do you believe the lost need salvation?

You are free to choose whatever you want to believe.

And your free to refuse to answer the question.

 

[Johann!@#]

Funny.

I’m having a simple discussion about the word lost.

I asked you this question?

Do you believe the lost need salvation?

You are free to choose whatever you want to believe.

And your free to refuse to answer the question.

Are you just looking for simple yes or no answers to make yourself feel good, while avoiding any counter questions?

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

Funny.

I’m having a simple discussion about the word lost.

I asked you this question?

Do you believe the lost need salvation?

You are free to choose whatever you want to believe.

And your free to refuse to answer the question.

I have answered your question, I think 4x now--lost count.

J.

 

[hawkman]

Going to let this thread rest a while . Under review .