Judaism and Christianity

[loveendures]

How do Christians respond to Rabbi Singer‘s challenge to Christianity? Rabbi Singer is well read and knowledge and has had numerous debates with Christians. Many of them agree with his stand. His website is Jews for Judaism.
Thanks

 

[WIP]

Someone few months ago made the post regarding Rabbi Singer, so I discuss or offer his opinion as I listen to him more often. I don't believe it was a debate.
So, can you explain to me how can I express my opinion without breaking the forums rule?

I will answer this question here for your benefit as well as others.

The Questions and Answers forum is specifically set up for the following reasons.

• To allow persons to ask a question without feeling pressured or the stress of putting up a defense for their question.
• Only Christian members of CFnet are allowed to answer the questions presented by the original poster.
• Members posting in this forum are required to focus only on the questions presented by the original poster.
• Anyone that feels the need to correct another member or otherwise engage another member besides the original poster must start a new discussion thread in another appropriate forum.
• For more details, read the Forum Rules and Guidelines sticky found at the top of the forum home page.

Imagine you're a new Christian or a non-Christian that is curious about Christianity. You walk into a church group meeting and you ask a question. One or two or three people answer your question but they give slightly different answers due to their different doctrinal beliefs. Now, those that answered your question begin a lengthy debate/discussion. Where does that leave you? If it were me, I'd leave the room totally frustrated, ignored, confused, and lost having gained nothing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Imagine you're a new Christian or a non-Christian that is curious about Christianity. You walk into a church group meeting and you ask a question. One or two or three people answer your question but they give slightly different answers due to their different doctrinal beliefs. Now, those that answered your question begin a lengthy debate/discussion. Where does that leave you? If it were me, I'd leave the room totally frustrated, ignored, confused, and lost having gained nothing.

I once saw this happen, lol.

I feel bad about it even to this day, but an elder of the church and his wife were having a Sunday morning Bible study and she was talking about how God's love is not dependent on how you behave. I pointed out a scripture from John 14 or 15 (I don't remember without looking) about how God loves the person who obeys him. We went back and forth for a few minutes.

The poor husband was saying to his wife, "but that is what it says, honey." I didn't mean to make her look stupid or embarrass her, for she was right in what she was actually talking about. I meant to start a good discussion. But before that could happen some guy scooped his Bible up in a rush and stormed out the door. I felt really, really bad about the trouble I started and still do to this day. I hope eventually she found out where I was actually going and what it means for God to love all people, yet for God's love to be dependent on you obeying him.

 

[Tempo]

So, your position is that a man could have sexual relations with as many women as he liked, married or unmarried, but so long as he knew what he was doing was wrong, he needn't offer a sacrifice? Ok. I'm good with that. Any man could steal billions of billions of dollars from someone and as long as he was aware that he was stealing the money, there's no need for any sin sacrifice. Is that about right? Anyone could kill whoever they wanted, and so long as they were up front about it and told everybody what a wicked thing they had done. Nope! No sacrifice needed.

Maybe that explains why the Jewish people do seem to do better financially than some others. They just steal what they need. Tell all their friends and neighbors that they knew that what they were doing was wrong. Bob's your uncle. Your free of any guilt for your sin. hmmmm. That's likely about how Hitler saw it. The Jews were getting off with robbing everyone blind because their God didn't count that as a sin...so long as they know they're doing wrong.

BTW, you might also be interested in reading what the consequences were for both keeping and not keeping the law.

God bless,
Ted

>>>LOL, I told you before, according to the OT, animals sacrifice only for unintentional sins as penalty (Lev. 5:6,7,15)
All other sins against God are punishable or forgiving by repentance as with king David and the people of Nineveh.
It's your turn to tell me:
What's animal sacrifices for and how were used according to the scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

>>>LOL, I told you before, according to the OT, animals sacrifice only for unintentional sins as penalty (Lev. 5:6,7,15)
All other sins against God are punishable or forgiving by repentance as with king David and the people of Nineveh.
It's your turn to tell me:
What's animal sacrifices for and how were used according to the scripture?

Unintentional sins or unknown sins.
This is a little known fact, but is true.
I think basically it's never brought up in conversation.

Maybe you could post a link?

 

[GodsGrace]

>>>LOL, I told you before, according to the OT, animals sacrifice only for unintentional sins as penalty (Lev. 5:6,7,15)
All other sins against God are punishable or forgiving by repentance as with king David and the people of Nineveh.
It's your turn to tell me:
What's animal sacrifices for and how were used according to the scripture?

Maybe you could start a thread in theology or the moderator could move your replies?
Start a thread and tag in miamited.
As stated by the moderator, this is not a debate forum. You could discuss this in theology.

 

[Lee2000]

How do Christians respond to Rabbi Singer‘s challenge to Christianity? Rabbi Singer is well read and knowledge and has had numerous debates with Christians. Many of them agree with his stand. His website is Jews for Judaism.
Thanks

Greetings,

In relation to the first covenant Judaism practices and there Jewish history is well documented in the OT.

In relation to this Rabbi gentleman's claim that Gentiles or Christians have errored in their understanding of the atonement as understood and practiced through Judaism.

This needs further consideration and for arguments sake let’s say this is true and accurate.

Now if this was true and accurate that would mean that continuation and practice of Judaism would still require the high priest to offer the sin offering for the entire nation of Israel to atone from their sins once a year.

So God would forget their sins for that year, and when Gods power consumed that sin offering sacrifice smoke would come out the back of the chimney located in the Holy of Holies place of the tabernacle once a year and this is known as the Shekinah Glory.

Now when Jesus was crucified and died on the cross the Curtin in the temple was torn in 2 from the top to the bottom indicating God removed that vale between man and himself.

So Jesus become the only way to God and the evidence that Jesus is the Messiah of Israel and that Christianity evolved from Judaism is quite clear because the Shekinah glory of God has never appeared or consumed another sacrifice since.

So if Judaism is still relevant today where has the Shekinah glory gone and why isn't God answering his people?

That means the Jewish people are still in their sins till this day and they only have 2 options either deny Jesus is there Messiah and explain where the Shekinah glory has gone or accept the fact the Jesus is there Messiah and accept him as there Lord and Savior and transition from the 1st covenant and practice of Judaism to the 2nd covenant and practice of Christianity.

No agruement or philosophy would change the fact that the Shekinah has gone and this becomes evidence that Jesus was there Messiah and was sent to save his people.

Peace

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Unintentional sins or unknown sins.
This is a little known fact, but is true.
I think basically it's never brought up in conversation.

Maybe you could post a link?

Actually offerings for sin, known sin, is also described:

The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2“If anyone sins and commits a breach of faith against the LORD by deceiving his neighbor in a matter of deposit or security, or through robbery, or if he has oppressed his neighbor 3or has found something lost and lied about it, swearing falsely—in any of all the things that people do and sin thereby— 4if he has sinned and has realized his guilt and will restore what he took by robbery or what he got by oppression or the deposit that was committed to him or the lost thing that he found 5or anything about which he has sworn falsely, he shall restore it in full and shall add a fifth to it, and give it to him to whom it belongs on the day he realizes his guilt.6And he shall bring to the priest as his compensation to the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flock, or its equivalent, for a guilt offering. 7And the priest shall make atonement for him before the LORD, and he shall be forgiven for any of the things that one may do and thereby become guilty.”

So it’s not true that offerings are ONLY for known sin.

It’s really a silly position that if you sun and know it, no offering is required. God will just forgive without any cost to you. Only if you unaware of sin do you need a sacrifice on your part. But anyone can see why this is appealing. Choose to Do a nasty deed to someone and you’re forgiven quickly and painlessly.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Greetings,

In relation to the first covenant Judaism practices and there Jewish history is well documented in the OT.

In relation to this Rabbi gentleman's claim that Gentiles or Christians have errored in their understanding of the atonement as understood and practiced through Judaism.

This needs further consideration and for arguments sake let’s say this is true and accurate.

Now if this was true and accurate that would mean that continuation and practice of Judaism would still require the high priest to offer the sin offering for the entire nation of Israel to atone from their sins once a year.

So God would forget their sins for that year, and when Gods power consumed that sin offering sacrifice smoke would come out the back of the chimney located in the Holy of Holies place of the tabernacle once a year and this is known as the Shekinah Glory.

Now when Jesus was crucified and died on the cross the Curtin in the temple was torn in 2 from the top to the bottom indicating God removed that vale between man and himself.

So Jesus become the only way to God and the evidence that Jesus is the Messiah of Israel and that Christianity evolved from Judaism is quite clear because the Shekinah glory of God has never appeared or consumed another sacrifice since.

So if Judaism is still relevant today where has the Shekinah glory gone and why isn't God answering his people?

That means the Jewish people are still in their sins till this day and they only have 2 options either deny Jesus is there Messiah and explain where the Shekinah glory has gone or accept the fact the Jesus is there Messiah and accept him as there Lord and Savior and transition from the 1st covenant and practice of Judaism to the 2nd covenant and practice of Christianity.

No agruement or philosophy would change the fact that the Shekinah has gone and this becomes evidence that Jesus was there Messiah and was sent to save his people.

Peace

Bravo!! If Christians got it wrong, how come no Jew in the world practices the Mosaic Covenant faith and haven’t since 70AD? No Jew even mentions doing so.

 

[eddif]

How do Christians respond to Rabbi Singer‘s challenge to Christianity? Rabbi Singer is well read and knowledge and has had numerous debates with Christians. Many of them agree with his stand. His website is Jews for Judaism.
Thanks

loveendures

Are you still with us? I see May 4 2023 as your last visit. November 2022? Was your last post on this thread?

Are the answers helping

eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

One belief held by Jews for Judaism is that Jesus didn't fulfill messianic prophecies such as destroying the enemies of Gods' people, bringing them into their own land and bringing peace to all mankind.
Misconceptions like this are easily corrected by understanding that only believers are Gods' chosen people, regardless of race and that death is the enemy Messiah would destroy.

Death and sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian, ( abiding on forums for many years daily) will have an equally hard task, to show they are any better than a Rabbi, or anyone in Judaism, or any non Christian religion, atheist etc.

Though it is difficult to prove we Christians don't commit sin since being reborn of God's seed, it isn't impossible.
Rabbis and non-Christians embrace their sins.

 

[CherubRam]

Well, my challenge to him is what makes it so the old covenant of law is somehow man's answer to his separation from God because of his sin. Christianity has the answer.

Acts 13:38-39
38Therefore let it be known to you, brothers, that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

Only a blind, deceived person would think the law somehow justifies a man, making him righteous in God's sight. Those of us who can see know it does the exact opposite and shows us that we are utterly unrighteous in his sight and helpless to do anything about it. Praise God for the Good News of Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sin the law can not provide!

The Laws of Moses for the priesthood governed the Festivals, Offerings, and Sacrifices.

 

[eddif]

loveendures
In post 9 the link speaks of dovetails (the meshing together of two scriptures going somewhat another direction).

Jesus was a carpenter.

Dovetails – A Clue for Dating Antiques – Harp Gallery Antique Furniture Blog

This over-view of the dovetailing techniques should easily help identification and dating of most furniture from the last 200 years.

www.harpgallery.com

The bird (dove) has a triangle shape tail. I never caught how the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus and remained. You might have to be a carpenter to catch the meaning. I was blown away after thinking about the link in post 9.

eddif

 

[eddif]

loveendures
After posting

loveendures
In post 9 the link speaks of dovetails (the meshing together of two scriptures going somewhat another direction).

Jesus was a carpenter.

Dovetails – A Clue for Dating Antiques – Harp Gallery Antique Furniture Blog

This over-view of the dovetailing techniques should easily help identification and dating of most furniture from the last 200 years.

www.harpgallery.com

The bird (dove) has a triangle shape tail. I never caught how the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus and remained. You might have to be a carpenter to catch the meaning. I was blown away after thinking about the link in post 9.

eddif

I had this thought later
Colossians 2:2 kjv
2. That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Do not only are scriptures dovetailed as by carpenters, we are also knit together as the seamless garment of Jesus.

Those who speak of division miss the joining of scriptures.

eddif

 

[gordon777]

Greetings,

In relation to the first covenant Judaism practices and there Jewish history is well documented in the OT.

In relation to this Rabbi gentleman's claim that Gentiles or Christians have errored in their understanding of the atonement as understood and practiced through Judaism.

This needs further consideration and for arguments sake let’s say this is true and accurate.

Now if this was true and accurate that would mean that continuation and practice of Judaism would still require the high priest to offer the sin offering for the entire nation of Israel to atone from their sins once a year.

So God would forget their sins for that year, and when Gods power consumed that sin offering sacrifice smoke would come out the back of the chimney located in the Holy of Holies place of the tabernacle once a year and this is known as the Shekinah Glory.

Now when Jesus was crucified and died on the cross the Curtin in the temple was torn in 2 from the top to the bottom indicating God removed that vale between man and himself.

So Jesus become the only way to God and the evidence that Jesus is the Messiah of Israel and that Christianity evolved from Judaism is quite clear because the Shekinah glory of God has never appeared or consumed another sacrifice since.

So if Judaism is still relevant today where has the Shekinah glory gone and why isn't God answering his people?

That means the Jewish people are still in their sins till this day and they only have 2 options either deny Jesus is there Messiah and explain where the Shekinah glory has gone or accept the fact the Jesus is there Messiah and accept him as there Lord and Savior and transition from the 1st covenant and practice of Judaism to the 2nd covenant and practice of Christianity.

No agruement or philosophy would change the fact that the Shekinah has gone and this becomes evidence that Jesus was there Messiah and was sent to save his people.

Peace

God is love, we perceive the love of God, as Christ loved us when we were yet enemies.

This is the grace of Christ.

 

[gordon777]

Though it is difficult to prove we Christians don't commit sin since being reborn of God's seed, it isn't impossible.
Rabbis and non-Christians embrace their sins.

Men are lovers of their own selves, do you think the antichrist spirit is not erring, when it speaks/wrests against the truth.


James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[gordon777]

The Laws of Moses for the priesthood governed the Festivals, Offerings, and Sacrifices.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[gordon777]

loveendures
After posting

I had this thought later
Colossians 2:2 kjv
2. That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Do not only are scriptures dovetailed as by carpenters, we are also knit together as the seamless garment of Jesus.

Those who speak of division miss the joining of scriptures.

eddif

Hearts are knit together by more than forum talk:

Acts 2:44 And all that believed were TOGETHER, and HAD ALL THINGS COMMON;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, CONTINUING DAILY WITH ONE ACCORD in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and SINGLENESS OF HEART,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed WERE OF ONE HEART AND OF ONE SOUL: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but THEY HAD ALL THINGS COMMON.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Laws of Moses for the priesthood governed the Festivals, Offerings, and Sacrifices.

Which is exactly why the covenant of law can be laid aside. It was a system of priest and sacrifice and worship added because of sin. Now that Christ is the one time, for all time, eternal fulfillment of the necessity for priest and sacrifice, and through whom we worship the Father, the law that governed that old system of priest and sacrifice and worship can be laid aside as unneeded and obsolete. Now we worship in the new way of the Spirit, and in truth, not in the old way of the letter.

 

[CherubRam]

Which is exactly why the covenant of law can be laid aside. It was a system of priest and sacrifice and worship added because of sin. Now that Christ is the one time, for all time, eternal fulfillment of the necessity for priest and sacrifice, and through whom we worship the Father, the law that governed that old system of priest and sacrifice and worship can be laid aside as unneeded and obsolete. Now we worship in the new way of the Spirit, and in truth, not in the old way of the letter.

Apart from Moses law is The Sabbath and moral commands of God.

Romans 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be,...