Judaism and Christianity

[loveendures]

How do Christians respond to Rabbi Singer‘s challenge to Christianity? Rabbi Singer is well read and knowledge and has had numerous debates with Christians. Many of them agree with his stand. His website is Jews for Judaism.
Thanks

 

[Hopeful 2]

Men are lovers of their own selves, do you think the antichrist spirit is not erring, when it speaks/wrests against the truth.

It is indeed "erring".
Thank God we are like Him while we await His return. (1 John 3:2)

 

[gordon777]

Apart from Moses law is The Sabbath and moral commands of God.

Romans 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be,...

The sabbath is Jesus Christ, ( He is Lord even of the sabbath.) and moral commandments of God are through faith, and morals are when Jesus Christ is in us. ( the law of faith.)



Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[gordon777]

It is indeed "erring".
Thank God we are like Him while we await His return. (1 John 3:2)

1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.

2 Corinthians 10:17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

 

[CherubRam]

The sabbath is Jesus Christ, ( He is Lord even of the sabbath.) and moral commandments of God are through faith, and morals are when Jesus Christ is in us. ( the law of faith.)



Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Matthew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Mark 2:28
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:5
Then Yahshua said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Man, as in mankind. It does not say the Sabbath was made for the Jew, but mankind. The seventh day is Yahshua’s Sabbath.

 

[gordon777]

Matthew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Mark 2:28
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:5
Then Yahshua said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Man, as in mankind. It does not say the Sabbath was made for the Jew, but mankind. The seventh day is Yahshua’s Sabbath.

The Sabbath was between God and Israel.




Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.



Sabbath is the sanctifying of Israel.

God rested on that seventh day and sanctified it:


Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.



God has chosen us from the beginning for belief of the truth and sanctification of the Spirit. ( Hence Jesus Christ being Lord even of the Sabbath.)



John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Apart from Moses law is The Sabbath and moral commands of God.

Romans 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be,...

The only moral aspect of the Sabbath command that I can see is that of giving those in your service a day of rest - Deuteronomy 5:14. Which for the vast majority of us doesn't apply. I haven't had any servants in years, lol.

 

[eddif]

Which is exactly why the covenant of law can be laid aside. It was a system of priest and sacrifice and worship added because of sin. Now that Christ is the one time, for all time, eternal fulfillment of the necessity for priest and sacrifice, and through whom we worship the Father, the law that governed that old system of priest and sacrifice and worship can be laid aside as unneeded and obsolete. Now we worship in the new way of the Spirit, and in truth, not in the old way of the letter.

loveendures
I want you to tie what was said above and my comments together.


“The old way of the letter”
The law placed in our hearts and minds is the inner part of the law (hidden by the seed coat of ceremony).

Now I said that, but I need to discuss it enough to help us all (me included) talk about it.

Ephesians 2:13 kjv
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15.Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments containedin ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Break for a comment. Notice the colon in the King James. Most other versions have a period. I have never noticed this before. I want to see what follows?


17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Help us all out. loveendures

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[gordon777]

The only moral aspect of the Sabbath command that I can see is that of giving those in your service a day of rest - Deuteronomy 5:14. Which for the vast majority of us doesn't apply. I haven't had any servants in years, lol.

The moral aspect is well told:


Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[gordon777]

loveendures
I want you to tie what was said above and my comments together.


“The old way of the letter”
The law placed in our hearts and minds is the inner part of the law (hidden by the seed coat of ceremony).

Now I said that, but I need to discuss it enough to help us all (me included) talk about it.

Ephesians 2:13 kjv
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15.Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments containedin ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Break for a comment. Notice the colon in the King James. Most other versions have a period. I have never noticed this before. I want to see what follows?


17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Help us all out. loveendures

Mississippi redneck
eddif

It is the law of faith, no faith n o law, the law of Christ is to b for others, not for ourselves.


Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.


2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[D-D-W]

Man, as in mankind. It does not say the Sabbath was made for the Jew, but mankind. The seventh day is Yahshua’s Sabbath.

Exodus 31:13
But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

Exodus 31:16
So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.

Leviticus 24:8
Every sabbath day he shall set it in order before the Lord continually; it is an everlasting covenant for the sons of Israel.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The moral aspect is well told:


Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

I see the moral aspect of the Sabbath command insofar as it's spiritual meaning and application (rest from sin and self sufficiency), not in the letter of the law, save for the part about giving rest to others who are in your service.

 

[CherubRam]

Exodus 31:13
But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

Exodus 31:16
So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.

Leviticus 24:8
Every sabbath day he shall set it in order before the Lord continually; it is an everlasting covenant for the sons of Israel.

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...


Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



Romans 4:13
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.


Romans 4:18
Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."


Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.


Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Death and sin.

Yes Hopeful. Our dear Savior destroyed the condemnation of our sins against him by resisting unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil. Pro.16:6

 

[WIP]

The last two pages of posts have been addressing everyone except the OP. Any further violations of this forum's rules will be deleted.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The last two pages of posts have been addressing everyone except the OP. Any further violations of this forum's rules will be deleted.

OOPPS.
I didn't read your warning until after I had already posted.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The last two pages of posts have been addressing everyone except the OP. Any further violations of this forum's rules will be deleted.

Hello WIP.
I've visited the Jews for Judaism website and think the conversations I've had in this thread are right in line with what the OP asks.
The Jewish religion as our Lord taught doesn't disagree with the OT. In fact, the rabbis teach repentance for salvation, which is what the Messiah teaches.
Where the rabbis' strayed was in violating the law by conspiring to shed innocent blood.
Christianity also went off track when it started teaching God put the righteous to death in place of the wicked. That doesn't help bring Jews (or gentiles) to Christ because Jews know God is a righteous Judge. And it doesn't help bring gentiles to Christ because neither Christ or the apostles ever taught that.
I think organizations that are pro-Judaism have been greatly harmed by heresies in christian circles.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That kinda strays away from His actual conquest of sin.

I don't know what you mean by "conquest." If you mean like "hunting and destroying", that happens whenever anyone believes and is forgiven and continues as we follow Christ forgiving.

In Him, we too can live in victory over temptation and sin.

Yeah...to the praise of God and to the name of Jesus Christ.

And these realities are seen by Judaism and christianty today as future events.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I don't know what you mean by "conquest." If you mean like "hunting and destroying", that happens whenever anyone believes and is forgiven and continues as we follow Christ forgiving.

I mean conquering it so it has no more appeal to man.

And these realities are seen by Judaism and Christianity today as future events.

Too bad Judaism and false Christianity don't know that future has been here for 2000 years already.
Both are intent on the accommodation of sin.

 

[eddif]

loveendures
I hear a side conversation going on about defeating sin. When you get back to posting, see if this idea fits.

1 Corinthians 15:56 kjv
56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

A Christian no longer has sin having dominion over them because of the work Jesus did. However, we can not say we have no sin ( without being a lier).

Thanks loveendures

eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I mean conquering it so it has no more appeal to man.

He conquered it for himself. Conquering death shows his power over all things.

The Messiah didn't need for our Father to see him overcome sin and death. We needed to see it.

Too bad Judaism and false Christianity don't know that future has been here for 2000 years already.

Longer. Since the beginning of Genesis recorded by Moses and from then all the other prophets.

Both are intent on the accommodation of sin.

I don't know what the motivation is. I believe many in Judaism and Christianity desire to please God. The Bible tells us those who desire to know God will know the truth.

So why do orthodox Jews not recognize Jesus? Here's one reasson. Rabbi Singer says the "suffering servant" of Isa.53 refers only to the Jewish people, not to Jesus. He's half right, because countless Jewish people have suffered terribly, simply because of their faith in God. Rabbi Singer doesn't seem to comprehend that Jesus is the epitomy of a Jew suffering injustice simply because of his "faith" in God.

And I'll say this. People who profess faith in Jesus are responsible for portraying him this way, "according to the scriptures."
As it is now, reformed theology doesn't show our Savior suffering as righteous people do. It shows him being condemned as a criminal, but not with the Jewish mindset of justice vs. injustice.