• CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes will be coming in the future!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • CFN welcomes new contributing members!

    Please welcome Roberto and Julia to our family

    Blessings in Christ, and hope you stay awhile!

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

[_ Old Earth _] Just curious..

Does your Magisterium train you to call those who disagree with you liars?

You claimed I said something I did not, and when called on it, tried to dodge your way out of it. That's what liars do.

In your post #5 you said you disagreed with Gee.

But I didn't say what you claimed I did. And you tried to pretend that I did, after you were called out on it. You can't change what you did, but you can learn from it, and eventually, if you do better, you can live it down.

Why? What are you afraid of - the truth?

You've made it abundantly clear that you and truth aren't within shouting distance of each other.

Barbarian observes:
Since you want to change the subject, it appears you've conceded the existence of transitionals between humans and other apes.

You remain confused - I admit no such thing and you have never proven there is even one transitional between man and your alleged common ancestor.

I showed you that Australopithecines are transtianal between humans and other apes. Remember what a transitional is. It is an organism with apomorphies of two major groups. Your problem is to explain why evolutionary theory predicted so many transitionals before they were found, and why there are never any found where evolutionary theory says they are not.

When do you think you might be ready to explain that?

show us your lineage or simply admit there is no lineage.

Well, let's test that next. Here's a few skulls:
Classify each as human, ape, or transitional, and tell how you decided.

(Zeke cuts and runs)

What a surprise. If you can't even tell the difference between a human and an ape, why would anyone believe you when you claim they don't have a common ancestor?
 
You continue to disrespect me by addressing me in a manner I have requested you not to. Are you being deliberately provocative?
No disrespect/provocation intended my friend. :)

It is instructive of the apparent lack of honesty in your claims that you continue to insist that Gee's words be used to represent an argument that he has clearly denied their relevance to.
Once again you misrepresent me – why? Are you that desperate?

In context Gee plainly states that to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested. I fully agree with his statement. Before you became confused you stated you also agreed with his statement.

Questions for you: (1) Where is my alleged “lack of honesty” when I agree with his statement? (2) Do you agree with his statement? (3) Are you still confused by your own posts?

Perhaps you can explain how this comment supports the claim you made about Gee's argument when first you made it?
As I have explained before – Gee is a dedicated evolutionist who believes via faith the Darwinian notion of goo-to-you evolution and as I have explained to you before if he chooses to include that myth as his creation myth then so be it. His religious beliefs do not negate the truth he presented in Deep Time that it is folly to take a line of fossils and claim they represent a lineage. Are we on the same page, mate?

Perhaps you can tell us whether you disagree with Gee's comment to that effect and why:
It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with Gee's frustration. Gee correctly presented these facts: (1) No fossil is buried with its birth certificate. (2) The fossil record used to support the many myths of Darwinism is extremely scarce. (3) Everything pontificated by Darwinists regarding the causal relationship of events in Deep Time has been invented by Darwinists (circularity at its best). (4) To take a line of fossils and claim they represent a lineage is a Darwinian fairytale.

Gee is now embarrassed because those who reject Darwinian myth have used his facts to refute the pseudoscience presented by Darwinism. He has taken a lot of criticism from his fellow travelers for telling the truth – Darwinism cannot stand on its own feet when reviewed in the light of scientific fact - it must rely of sleight of hand, magic and mythology. Hope that helps you understand your quagmire a little better.

You do agree with me and Gee - "To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis"? Are you a Darwinist?

Source for Gee quotes as previously referenced.
As noted previously - Henry Gee, In Search of Deep Time
"...no fossil is buried with its birth certificate. That, and the scarcity of fossils, means that it is effectively impossible to link fossils into chains of cause and effect in any valid way, whether we are talking about the extinction of the dinosaurs, or chains of ancestry and descent. Everything we think we know about the causal relations of events in Deep Time has been invented by us after the fact. ...To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story -- amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific." ~ Henry Gee, In Search of Deep Time​
 
You claimed I said something I did not, and when called on it, tried to dodge your way out of it.
You are the one who disagreed with Gee and you can't figure out why. All you need to do to clarify your confusion is answer the questions that begs - (1) Can you provide a lineage between man, chimp and a common ancestor? (2) Was Gee correct when he stated -- "to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested"? Give it a shot.

Don't keep running - show us your lineage or simply admit there is no lineage. We will consider your silence your admission that there is no lineage.

I showed you that Australopithecines are transtianal between humans and other apes.
Only in your confused mind. Again, waving your hands in the air and claiming that Australopithecines represents a transtianal between humans and other apes is your folly. We are asking you to provide real science to support you religious beliefs. You do know the difference between science and religion - yes?

You can't even tell the difference between a human and an ape, why would anyone believe you when you claim they don't have a common ancestor?
But I do know the difference - it is you who confuses dead-end ape lines with humans. You have no science to support your religious beliefs - do you? You are sad but entertaining.
 
Barbarian observes:
You claimed I said something I did not, and when called on it, tried to dodge your way out of it.

You are the one who disagreed with Gee

But I didn't say what you claimed I did. That is what is called "lying."
And I gave you a chance to show us that transitionals don't show descent. You dodged the question.

Barbarian observes:
I showed you that Australopithecines are transtional between humans and other apes.

Only in your confused mind.

Nope. By definition, transitionals are organisms that have apomorphic characters of two distinct groups. And as you saw, they do. Your problem now is to explain why so many transitionals were predicted by evolutionary theory, but none have been found where evolutionary theory says they should not be.

Again, waving your hands in the air and claiming that Australopithecines represents a transtianal between humans and other apes is your folly.

There's no point in denying it. As you saw, they are transitional in hands, hips, skull, dental arcade, and many other features. Should I show you again?

We are asking you to provide real science to support you religious beliefs.

Anatomical data is used by real scientists.

Barbarian chuckles:
You can't even tell the difference between a human and an ape, why would anyone believe you when you claim they don't have a common ancestor?

But I do know the difference

And yet when shown a number of them, you were unable to sort them out. Sorry, your claim is less convincing than your behavior. Why not at least make an attempt?
 
Everything we think we know about the causal relations of events in Deep Time has been invented by us after the fact. ~ Henry Gee

Wrong again. All of that evidence above, appeared after it was theorized that birds evolved from dinosaurs. And as you see, it's compelling evidence. But even more compelling is the fact that we don't see such evidence between groups that are not predicted to be closely related.
In the above quote made by Henry Gee he makes the admission that everything Darwinians think they know about the causal relations of events in Deep Time has been invented by Darwinistas "after the fact". You disagree with his remarks as noted in your post above. You then add a rather odd statement in rebuttal to Gee's remarks when you state - "All of that evidence above, appeared after it was theorized that birds evolved from dinosaurs." Are you saying Gee did not take into account the notion that birds evolved from dinosaurs?

Can you explained what you thought you were trying to say in your rebuttal? The argument we so often hear, "Dinos evolved into birds because Darwinians say dinos evolved into birds" is circular reasoning. You do understand what constitutes circular reasoning - yes? When Gee stated correctly that everything Darwinians think they know about causal relations in Deep Time has been invented by Darwinians "after the fact" isn't he admitting to circular reasoning?

Do you offer anything other that circular reasoning and hand-waving to support your notion of man-chimp common ancestry or is that about all you have? Are you keeping up?
 
Barbarian observes:

And I gave you a chance to show us that transitionals don't show descent. You dodged the question.
But I didn't dodge anything - why do you lie? Are you desperate? I noted correctly that homologous structures do not prove common ancestry and can be used to support common design.

Barbarian observes:
I showed you that Australopithecines are transtional between humans and other apes.

You have provided absolutely no science that proves Australopithecines to be anything other than a dead-end ape line. You have nothing to support the notion that your religion is science. You have failed once again.
 
No disrespect/provocation intended my friend. :)
Then stop doing it.
Once again you misrepresent me – why? Are you that desperate?
The only desperation I see here is your need to co-opt Gee into agreeing with a position that he clearly doesn't - and your insistence against Gee's specific statements to the contrary, that this accords with what you assert Gee is arguing.
In context Gee plainly states that to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested. I fully agree with his statement. Before you became confused you stated you also agreed with his statement.
Please show (a) where I agreed with his statement and (b) that Gee is supporting your argument that we (and other organisms) do not have an ancestry in the fossil record, which seems to be the thrust of your argument.
Questions for you: (1) Where is my alleged “lack of honesty” when I agree with his statement?
Because you attempt to co-opt that statement into support for an argument that does not derive from the statement and that Gee has made clear he does not agree with.
(2) Do you agree with his statement?
And have you stopped beating your wife yet?
(3) Are you still confused by your own posts?
Why would you imagine I would be?
As I have explained before – Gee is a dedicated evolutionist who believes via faith the Darwinian notion of goo-to-you evolution and as I have explained to you before if he chooses to include that myth as his creation myth then so be it.
You have explained no such thing, but simply asserted it in the apparent expectation that this is all you have to do to make an irrefutable argument. I have pointed out this collection of unsubstantiated assertions before, but you did nothing to support them then so I don't expect you to do so now; but for the record, please show that Gee 'believes via faith the Darwinian notion of goo-to-you evolution', that this characterisation of Darwin's theory and it's modern synthesis has any value and that the modern evolutionary synthesis amounts to 'myth'.
His religious beliefs do not negate the truth he presented in Deep Time that it is folly to take a line of fossils and claim they represent a lineage.
Another unsupported assertion, that his understanding and acceptance of evolutionary theory amount to 'religious beliefs'.
Are we on the same page, mate?
Not as long as you continue to misrepresent Gee's intent and argument in the relevant quote mine, mate. Or have you failed to ay any attention at all to Gee's comments that I have directed you towards.
It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with Gee's frustration.
So you prefer your misrepresentation of the intent of Gee's argument to Gee's statement as to what purpose it was directed and how creationist websites have misrepresented it.

Gee correctly presented these facts: (1) No fossil is buried with its birth certificate.
No one suggests that it is.
(2) The fossil record used to support the many myths of Darwinism is extremely scarce.
Unsubstantiated assertions: that the fossil record is 'extremely scarce' and that evolutionary theory amounts to 'many myths'. Furthermore, if you are now trying to suggest that your provided quote mine amounts to Gee presenting these unsubstantiated assertions as 'facts', then you are not only quote mining him at second-hand, but actively and intentionally misrepresenting his views.
(3) Everything pontificated by Darwinists regarding the causal relationship of events in Deep Time has been invented by Darwinists (circularity at its best).
Unsurprisingly, more unsubstantiated assertions that fly in the face of what Gee himself has written. Gee has unequivocally stated that the fossil record is evidence for evolution and that organisms have an ancestry and ancestors, as demonstrated by this fossil record.
(4) To take a line of fossils and claim they represent a lineage is a Darwinian fairytale.
Again you misrepresent what Gee says, unless you can point to any point in your quote mine where he uses the phrase 'Darwinian fairytale'.
Gee is now embarrassed because those who reject Darwinian myth have used his facts to refute the pseudoscience presented by Darwinism.
Unsupported assertion, that Gee is anything other than angered by being quotemined by creationists.
He has taken a lot of criticism from his fellow travelers for telling the truth...
And yet another unsubstantiated assertion, that Gee 'has taken a lot of criticism' from evolutionary scientists, leaving aside your efforts to demean the profession by characterizing its members as 'fellow teavellers'.
Darwinism cannot stand on its own feet when reviewed in the light of scientific fact - it must rely of sleight of hand, magic and mythology. Hope that helps you understand your quagmire a little better.
Unsupported opinion based on apparent ignorance of what constitutes the modern evolutionary synthesis only helps me understand the lack of substance and intellectual rigour that underpin your own arguments.
You do agree with me and Gee - "To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis"?
I've told you what I agree with already. Were you not paying attention, or did you simply not understand?
Are you a Darwinist?
Again, I have answered this question already. Were you not paying attention, or did you simply not understand my answer? On the other hand, I have asked you whether or not you are a creationist, but answer has there come none. Why is that?
As noted previously - Henry Gee, In Search of Deep Time*
"...no fossil is buried with its birth certificate. That, and the scarcity of fossils, means that it is effectively impossible to link fossils into chains of cause and effect in any valid way, whether we are talking about the extinction of the dinosaurs, or chains of ancestry and descent. Everything we think we know about the causal relations of events in Deep Time has been invented by us after the fact. ...To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story -- amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific." ~ Henry Gee, In Search of Deep Time

*And as noted previously this is a quote mine, which, as Gee has pointed out, is misused to support a point of view that his comments do not support at all. And as asked twice previously, and as you have twice failed to answer, can you tell us what lies in those ellipses, from what source you derived this quote and what Gee actually argues that the fossil record shows? Can you also support your various assertions, that 'Darwinism' amounts to 'many myths' and that Gee 'believes' in them 'via faith.' And can you detail the alleged 'Darwinian "horse sequence" hoax' and explain what it proposes, why it is a hoax and where it identifies a specific fossil claimed as directly ancestral to either another specific fossil or a particular living individual?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You are the one who disagreed with Gee and you can't figure out why. All you need to do to clarify your confusion is answer the questions that begs - (1) Can you provide a lineage between man, chimp and a common ancestor? (2) Was Gee correct when he stated -- "to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested"?

Don't keep running - show us your lineage or simply admit there is no lineage. We will consider your silence your admission that there is no lineage.
Third request for the Barbarian.

Why are you running - are you afraid? No guts, no glory.
 
Not as long as you continue to misrepresent Gee's intent and argument in the relevant quote mine, mate. Or have you failed to ay any attention at all to Gee's comments that I have directed you towards.

You're simply spinning in circles mate. In context Gee plainly states that to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested. I fully agree with his statement. Do you agree or disagree with me and Gee on this point? Yes/no, please.

You didn't answer my questions: (1) Where is my alleged “lack of honesty†when I agree with Gee's statement? (2) Do you agree with Gee's statement above? (3) Are you still confused by your own posts?
 
Unsupported opinion based on apparent ignorance of what constitutes the modern evolutionary synthesis only helps me understand the lack of substance and intellectual rigour that underpin your own arguments.
But I do understand the modern evolutionary synthesis and I understand that hundreds of PhD scientists have signed the "Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" statement because these scientists see the obvious flaws and limits of that theory.

Everyone needs to carefully exam the evidence (or lack thereof) for Darwinian theory - it has been scientifically weighed in the balance and found wanting.
There Is "Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"

"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

"Darwinian evolutionary theory was my field of specialization in biology. Among other things, I wrote a textbook on the subject thirty years ago. Meanwhile, however I have become an apostate from Darwinian theory and have described it as part of modernism’s origination myth. Consequently, I certainly agree that biology students at least should have the opportunity to learn about the flaws and limits of Darwin’s theory while they are learning about the theory’s strongest claims. ~ Dr. Stanley Salthe, Professor Emeritus, Brooklyn College of the City University of New York

 
You're simply spinning in circles mate.
Then you are not reading for comprehension, mate.
In context Gee plainly states that to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested. I fully agree with his statement.
On the contrary, you take this statement and attempt to imbue it with intent and meaning that Gee says it does not have, i.e. that the fossil record does not support evolutionary theory and that we do not have ancestors and ancestry.
Do you agree or disagree with me and Gee on this point? Yes/no, please.
Why would I agree with your attempts to misrepresent Gee when Gee himself tells us that such attempts amount to quote mines of his writings? Also, when you answer questions, you are then entitled to ask that others answer yours; in respect of which, I note that you have ignored the substance of the post you are allegedly responding to and simply disregarded all requests to clarify your assertions and opinions.
You didn't answer my questions: (1) Where is my alleged “lack of honesty” when I agree with Gee's statement? (2) Do you agree with Gee's statement above? (3) Are you still confused by your own posts?
I have answered your questions; that you don't like my answers does not mean that I have not provided them. Unlike yourself, who appears to have answered none of mine.
 
But I do understand the modern evolutionary synthesis and I understand that hundreds of PhD scientists have signed the "Scientific Dissent From Darwinism" statement because these scientists see the obvious flaws and limits of that theory.

Everyone needs to carefully exam the evidence (or lack thereof) for Darwinian theory - it has been scientifically weighed in the balance and found wanting.
There Is "Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"

"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

"Darwinian evolutionary theory was my field of specialization in biology. Among other things, I wrote a textbook on the subject thirty years ago. Meanwhile, however I have become an apostate from Darwinian theory and have described it as part of modernism’s origination myth. Consequently, I certainly agree that biology students at least should have the opportunity to learn about the flaws and limits of Darwin’s theory while they are learning about the theory’s strongest claims. ~ Dr. Stanley Salthe, Professor Emeritus, Brooklyn College of the City University of New York

This post provides no evidence at all that you understand the modern evolutionary synthesis. As to your reference to the alleged 'hundreds of PhD scientists' who have signed this statement, can you provide their names and academic specialities? how many of them, for example, are biologists or zoologists? Also, can you explain what relevance this has to your understanding (or lack of it) in respect of the modern evolutionary synthesis?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
On the contrary, you take this statement and attempt to imbue it with intent and meaning that Gee says it does not have, i.e. that the fossil record does not support evolutionary theory and that we do not have ancestors and ancestry.
You continue to misrepresent me and your confusion persists. I have made no connection with Gee's statement and his belief regarding common ancestry. I have gone out of my way to state (correctly) that Gee believes in universal common ancestry via faith. His religious beliefs are none of my concern and what he chooses for his creation myth is his business.

In context Gee plainly states that to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested. I fully agree with his statement. You remain confused on what you believe as you flip-flop and thrash around the subject. When you gather your thoughts my friend maybe you can articulate what you really believe - exactly.
 
This post provides no evidence at all that you understand the modern evolutionary synthesis. As to your reference to the alleged 'hundreds of PhD scientists' who have signed this statement, can you provide their names and academic specialities? how many of them, for example, are biologists or zoologists? Also, can you explain what relevance this has toyourbunderstanding (or lack of it) in respect of the modern evolutionary synthesis?

Again - I understand Darwinism, mate. I am thinking you do not. You can do your own research as to who signed the list - it's all on the internet...
Are there credible scientists who doubt Neo-Darwinism?
Yes. Signers of the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism hold doctorates in biological sciences, physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, computer science, and related disciplines from such institutions as Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Dartmouth, Rutgers, University of Chicago, Stanford and University of California at Berkeley. Many are also professors or researchers at major universities and research institutions such as Cambridge, Princeton, MIT, UCLA, University of Pennsylvania, University of Georgia, Tulane, Moscow State University, Chitose Institute of Science & Technology in Japan, and Ben-Gurion University in Israel.​
You are not keeping up....http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/
 
How do we know these bones that are 'supposed' ancestors are true?
Phylogeny was created to sort life forms into easily classified groups for further study and record. When Linnaeus started sorting, he began to realize that certain traits appeared generational. With the discovery of genetics, geneticists have found that these groups are linked together by ERVs and genes. Through geology and chemistry we have learned that Strata are different ages of rock. Chemistry has given us a plethora of dating methods to see when these layers were layed down, and how to date fossils and artifacts. Then we had Darwin and Mendel who discovered inherited traits and set up the basics for the modern theory of evolution. Scientists have managed to "evolve" modern species in the lab using both Mendel's and Darwin's theories. So when we take Linnaeus's phylogeny, Darwin's Theory of Evolution, Mendel's Theory of Genetics, Alfred Wegener Theory of strata, and the various chemists that discovered Radiometric Dating. We can figure out what species the bones are from, where they fit on the species map, how old it is, and what the species came from and possibly is an ancestor to. That's the basics.
According to someone who studies Biology and doesn't believe in God Evolutionists make assumptions based off of these bone fossils and can never prove that they are 100% related.
I'm not interested in the sayings of an unnamed person. If they are your thoughts, we'll discuss them. If not, source the person.
 
You continue to misrepresent me and your confusion persists. I have made no connection with Gee's statement and his belief regarding common ancestry. I have gone out of my way to state (correctly) that Gee believes in universal common ancestry via faith. His religious beliefs are none of my concern and what he chooses for his creation myth is his business.
Apart from continuing to repeat assertions that you fail to substantiate - in this case, that you correctly state that Gee believes in universal common ancestry by faith - your point is irrelevant: whether Gee believes in universal common ancestry or not bears not one whit upon what he is stating in the comment you have given us.
In context Gee plainly states that to take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested. I fully agree with his statement.
You presented that statement as evidence that Gee agreed with your arguments concerning what you describe as 'Darwinian mythology' - 'Such assertions are bedtime stories that come under the long list of Darwinian mythology - mythology passed off as science. The fossil record is Darwinisms greatest disappointment.' This is clearly contrary to Gee's intention and his statements concerning this quote mined reference, as you have been directed towards.
You remain confused on what you believe as you flip-flop and thrash around the subject. When you gather your thoughts...maybe you can articulate what you really believe - exactly.
On the contrary, I am entirely clear on what I think and have posted those thoughts consistently and clearly. If you can point to examples of 'flip-flopping' and 'thrashing around', I would be happy to discuss them further. Are you willing to substantiate the various assertions I have queried you about and to answer the questions I have asked? You can begin by telling us what is in the ellipses in the Gee quote mine, where you sourced it from and what Gee actually believes the fossil evidence indicates.
 
Again - I understand Darwinism, mate. I am thinking you do not. You can do your own research as to who signed the list - it's all on the internet...
Are there credible scientists who doubt Neo-Darwinism?
Yes. Signers of the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism hold doctorates in biological sciences, physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, computer science, and related disciplines from such institutions as Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Dartmouth, Rutgers, University of Chicago, Stanford and University of California at Berkeley. Many are also professors or researchers at major universities and research institutions such as Cambridge, Princeton, MIT, UCLA, University of Pennsylvania, University of Georgia, Tulane, Moscow State University, Chitose Institute of Science & Technology in Japan, and Ben-Gurion University in Israel.​
You are not keeping up....http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/
Your claim, your obligation to support it, mate, not mine to do your work for you. Can you name any of these holders of doctorates in biological sciences, many of whom are professors at major universities, etc? Perhaps you would like to reflect on this commentary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism

Not to mention Project Steve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scientific_Dissent_From_Darwinism
 
In the above quote made by Henry Gee he makes the admission that everything Darwinians think they know about the causal relations of events in Deep Time has been invented by Darwinistas "after the fact".

Show us where he said that. It looks like you're inventing things again...

You disagree with his remarks as noted in your post above. You then add a rather odd statement in rebuttal to Gee's remarks when you state - "All of that evidence above, appeared after it was theorized that birds evolved from dinosaurs." Are you saying Gee did not take into account the notion that birds evolved from dinosaurs?

Actually, Gee acknowledges that birds evolved from dinosaurs.

"Even though it is impossible to know for certain whether one species is the ancestor of another, we do know that any two organisms found on Earth must be cousins in some degree." - Henry Gee

The argument we so often hear, "Dinos evolved into birds because Darwinians say dinos evolved into birds" is circular reasoning.

Actually, it's just another of your misrepresentations. Show us where any scientist said that. You aren't a very honest person, are you?

You do understand what constitutes circular reasoning - yes?

Yep.

When Gee stated correctly that everything Darwinians think they know about causal relations in Deep Time has been invented by Darwinians "after the fact" isn't he admitting to circular reasoning?

Since you've already been caught manufacturing things you wish I had said, I'll wait to see if you did the same for Henry.

Do you offer anything other that circular reasoning and hand-waving to support

I showed you that Australopithecines were transitional between humans and other apes. I asked you to explain why so many such transitionals have been found after being predicted, but are never found where evolutionary theory says they should not be. You keep dodging that question. When do you think you can answer it?
 
But I do understand the modern evolutionary synthesis

That seems to be another of your falsehoods. I asked you several times to tell us which of the four points of Darwinism in the modern theory are mythical, and you've repeatedly failed to do it. I think everyone has figured out why.

and I understand that hundreds of PhD scientists have signed the "Scientific Dissent From Darwinism"

There's a similar list from "Project Steve", in which people express support for evolutionary theory. To be in that one, though, you need to be more than a "assistant professor of mathematics." You have to have a doctorate in biology or a related field. And you have to be named "Steve" or some variant of "Steve", like "Stephanie."

From your list, we have:
Stephen Crouse Professor of Kinesiology
Steven Gollmer Ph.D. Atmospheric Science
Steve D. Figard Ph.D. Biochemistry
Stephen C. Tentarelli Ph.D. Mechanical Engineering
Stephen Sewell Assistant Professor of Family Medicine
Stephen Lloyd Ph.D. Materials Science
C. Steven Murphree Professor of Biology


(it was kinda small, so I included all the "Steves" whether they had any expertise in biology or not)

Project Steve currently has about... um....
1190 Steves.

Which means that using date from your list, and from Project Steve, we come up with about 0.06% of people with doctorates in biology or related fields who signed the statement, as opposed to those who accept the theory. Assuming we relax the rules a bit for the creationists. "Look how many scientists we have on our side" is always a loser for creationists. Think of it as getting a point for being a good sport. Try to be one.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have gone out of my way to state (correctly) that Gee believes in universal common ancestry via faith.

I suppose this is another of your falsehoods. I found the site from which you cut and pasted the edited quotes. And it turns out that Gee cites evidence to support his acceptance of evolution.

But before I accuse you outright of yet another lie, I'll give you a chance to show that Gee cites faith instead of evidence. You've a a big backlog of questions to answer. When do you think you're going to be able to get to some of them?
 
Back
Top