Justification and Sanctification

[MCoop]

Ezra,
I agree that we should not depend on the passages regarding this "sealing" people want to talk about. It's much more complicated than just accepting the concept of a sealing...as you have correctly pointed out.

I think what happens is that we get so caught up in our belief system that we then close our mind to everything else. I read carefully before I answer someone and look into their belief. I have to be to disprove it to myself in order to continue. I know that I could be wrong too.

I've studied up on this concept of sealing and even spoke about it to a priest friend of mine and he agrees. We are sealed, indeed, for as long as we want to be.

God will not force us into heaven kicking and screaming.
We have to WANT to go there.
And this is the overall correct belief.

I like your open-mindedness.

Can a saved person in heaven have the ability to sin in heaven according to free will logic?

 

[MCoop]

THERE IS NOBODY that knows exactly how it works i do believe in free will . i also lean semi heavy toward eternal security . but i draw the line in living how one wants and still go to heaven. your pretty easy to discuss issues with .. it seems it either has to be all out one way or the other, what i mean by that is.. you either believe my way or hit the highway... in this post we have took justification and sanctification twisted tied turned all around.. some added to it some took away from it.. agreed i am willing to listen to anyone view point.. just have scripture to back it up..

Was Jesus able to sin? And if not, does that violate His free will?

 

[JLB]

Can a saved person in heaven have the ability to sin in heaven according to free will logic?

Ask Lucifer, as well as the rest of the sons of God who sinned during the days of Noah.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
2 Peter 2:4


JLB

 

[ezra]

Was Jesus able to sin? And if not, does that violate His free will?

i dont know what kind of silly question your asking other than the fact you don,t believe in freewill let me answer your per sin with scripture 2nd Corinthians 5:21

 

[FreeGrace]

The conditions are found in verse 27, in which verse 28 completes and is a part of verse 27.

No they aren't. v.27 is a description of His sheep, not conditions for getting eternal life. I will again remind this thread of how one obtains eternal life (condition for being given eternal life):
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Believing in Jesus Christ for salvation is the SOLE CONDITION for receiving eternal life. Jesus said so plainly.

Here let me show you what I mean.

We all know what you mean. And Scripture says differently.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

If v.27 was a condition, then the 2 verses would have CLEARLY said so. But there are NO WORDS of conditions.

Here is an example of how the condition of "following Me" would look like.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, ONLY IF they continue to hear my voice and continue to follow Me, and if they do, they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

The words in red show what a "condition" looks like. And Jesus said NO SUCH THING.

The word “and” is a conjunction and connects what Jesus said in verse 27 with what He promises in verse 28.

Of course it connects the 2 verses, but the word "and" NEVER sets up a condition.

I would recommend what a "condition" actually means. There isn't anything in v.27 or v.28 about conditions to meet.

If there is no condition required for eternal life, then we all should believe the doctrine of Universal Salvation.

Missing the point entirely. The condition for eternal life is found in the 10 verses I've just given (again) above. Believing in Christ is the condition for possessing eternal life.

But since verse 27 does exist, and defines the conditions for eternal life, we know that Universal Salvation is heresy.

There are no conditions in v.27 that constitute conditions for having eternal life.

Again, the 10 verses above refute your opinion.

 

[ezra]

Can a saved person in heaven have the ability to sin in heaven according to free will logic?

i should follow scriptural advice
2 Timothy 2:23 ► Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.

let me just give you a very sharp REBUKE .... there is NO NONE SIN in heaven your logic question is very foolish and very carnal in nature

 

[MCoop]

Thank you . Much like you dear Wondering , unless the HS convicts me , I do not comment. Many years back in my life , I stopped trying to win an argument. What do I gain by winning? True joy and satisfaction comes from adhering to the TRUTH. Indeed the message has been changed by many Churches to make it easier for the " believers". The difficult part was conveniently removed by such teachers and pastors. What bothered me most was they also started issuing Salvation guarantees to their congregations. I am guilty of believing them for years and years. How could they be wrong when everyone believes the same interpretation --- you are saved by faith alone.
However I was struck with insomnia about 10 months back and I could get sleep only early hours of morning , thankfully all the way to afternoon. Resulting in me not being able to attend my Bible based church. As you know the good Lord always uses something bad into something great. I started using up my night times to study Bible and since I was not attendeng the Church I for the first time in 13 years started examining the Bible NEUTRALLY. And not as the Church was teaching or their interpretation and conclusions . It was then with a shock I realized the message in the Bible was Not being taught correctly. The OBEDIENCE part had been quietly deleted. Thus in my opinion, I suddenly found this teaching to be heresy as it was not consistent with the truths of the Word, again in my opinion. After that I intensified my quest which led me to this wonderful forum. I learn and share everyday I learned many big names like JOHN MCARTHUR have also started including obedience in their teaching of salvation doctrine. MCARTHUR is convinced we can lose our salvation ( after accepting Christ as Savior) if we do not keep the Lord's commands and willfully disobey

John McArthur does not teach that. I hope u have proof, because this is slander. Although obedience follows salvation and is the fruit of all believers. And should be a mark of any true fellowship. Obedience is not the bases or foundation for attaining or maintaining salvation. You condemn antinomians on one side then promote works based salvation on the other. Both are heresy and wrong. Any one who believes he has to work to maintain his salvation doesn’t believe eternal life is in Christ. And in doing so nullifies the grace of God that saves and makes void Christ and His merits

 

[FreeGrace]

PRESENT TENSE works really well.

Actually, EVERY tense works exactly how it is meant to be used. But I still don't know how you think it works.

But you don't know about that tense.

This just proves the cluelessness of your views.

 

[FreeGrace]

There is no such thing as being sealed with the Holy Spirit forever.
Study up on Paul.

The first sentence is simply ridiculous, given what Paul DID write about it. The second sentence should be followed by those who make such a claim.

In fact, Eph 1:13,14 shows that this sealing is a GUARANTEE for the day of redemption. how is that NOT forever?

And given what Jesus said about the coming Holy Spirit in John 14:16, how is that NOT forever?
" And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you FOREVER—"

So, "no such thing", huh. How about studying up on what Jesus SAID.

 

[MCoop]

i should follow scriptural advice
2 Timothy 2:23 ► Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.

let me just give you a very sharp REBUKE .... there is NO NONE SIN in heaven your logic question is very foolish and very carnal in nature

No, free will worship is idolatry and is why there is a denial of Gods Sovereignty in salvation. And because free will is taught, the grace of God that saves is denied in salvation and justification. It is why we go round and round on these threads. You can’t logically answer the question and is why you dodge it with an insult

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

John McArthur does not teach that. I hope u have proof, because this is slander. Although obedience follows salvation and is the fruit of all believers. And should be a mark of any true fellowship. Obedience is not the bases or foundation for attaining or maintaining salvation. You condemn antinomians on one side then promote works based salvation on the other. Both are heresy and wrong. Any one who believes he has to work to maintain his salvation doesn’t believe eternal life is in Christ. And in doing so nullifies the grace of God that saves and makes void Christ and His merits

Here Mcoop is Dr. John MacArthur's words from his now famous sermon called SAVED or Self deceived" (and link provided) :
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-326/saved-or-selfdeceived-part-1
I want you to begin tonight as we return to the Word of God by following as I read Matthew chapter 7, verses 21 to 27...Matthew chapter 7 verses 21 to 27. Here are the words of our Lord Jesus Himself. And they are stunning words, shocking words, and tragic words.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy or preach in Your name? And in Your name cast out demons and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts upon them may be compared to a wise man who built his house upon the rock. And the rain descended and the floods came and the winds blew and burst against that house and yet it did not fall for it had been founded upon the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act upon them will be alike a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. And the rain descended and the floods came and the winds blew and burst against that house and it fell and great was its fall.’”

Perhaps this is the most tragic text in all the Bible. The reality is there will be people one day who stand before the Lord, many of them, who will assume that they are about to enter heaven only to be told they’re on their way to hell. This is the worst possible illusion that someone can have, to be mistaken about your eternal destiny, to be mistaken about your salvation.

I’m often asked the question, “Are Roman Catholics Christians?” And I would pose this question, “Are Protestants naturally or always Christians?” How about another question, “Are evangelicals necessarily Christians?” But a more important question than any of those is, “Are you a Christian?” Could be that you’re among the many who are self-deceived. You’re not alone. I am convinced that in the name of Christianity there are many places that call themselves churches and they’re not churches. And they have men leading them who call themselves pastors and they’re not pastors. And they have congregations who call themselves Christians and they are not Christians. They’re not churches, they’re not pastors, and they’re not Christians and yet they proudly post the label Christian.

Now we learned in our message last time, from verses 13 and 14, that there are only two possible options. There is a narrow gate that goes to heaven and there is a broad road that says heaven but goes to hell. The narrow gate is hard to find and hard to go through because it demands denial of self, denial of self-righteousness, recognition of sin, full repentance, submission to Christ, commitment to obey Him and follow Him no matter what the cost.

It’s hard to find that truth and hearing it, it’s hard to act upon it because of the love of self and the love of sin which is natural to the sinner. The true way to heaven is hard to find. It is away from the crowd. It is narrow, you come naked, you come alone, you come penitent. You strive to enter. At the same time, most religious people are on the broad road and there are plenty of false prophets who are enabling them. They are discussed, by the way, in verses 15 to 20. The false prophets, the false religious leaders, the false representatives of Christ, false agents of God who really are the agents of Satan, they are ministers of Satan disguised as angels of light, leading people on a road that says heaven but ends up in hell. For all the years of my ministry, there has been nothing that has come to the level of my concern for this issue.

Of course it’s a tragedy for Hindus to go to hell, or Buddhists, or Muslims. It’s a tragedy for atheists and Jews who reject the Messiah to go to hell. It’s a tragedy for anyone to go to hell. But it seems to me that the tragedy of all tragedies is the oft repeated Judas tragedy where you hang around Jesus but end up belonging to Satan. That’s the real tragedy. There are pastors who fit into this category, they’re not even Christians. And churches are filled with people, some quote/unquote churches are made up almost all of non-Christians who are deceived about their true spiritual condition.

And so, it’s important for us to hear the words of the Lord. If I’m concerned about this issue, believe me, He’s far more concerned about it as well. And when the Lord said these words, He was not speaking to irreligious people, He was speaking to fastidiously religious people. He was speaking to people who were religious to the max, I suppose we could say. They were obsessed with religion. In fact, they couldn’t divorce their social life, their civil life, their economic life, their family life, their national life from their religion. It permeated everything in Israel. These are THE most religious people. These people are as religious as you can get. But they have no relationship to God and no relationship to Christ. They are religious but lost. They are on the wrong road. To borrow the words of Paul, they have a form of godliness without the reality of it. They are self-deceived.

We have that today, as I said. It is everywhere...everywhere. People who in some way or another are connected to the idea of God and even Jesus, but utterly devoid of any divine life, any knowledge of God, any salvation at all. We have multitudes of deceived souls within churches who are on some kind of Jesus trip, thinking all is well. And the words of our Lord in this text really are the best words to deal with this deception. And I’m sure it’s not just a deception that’s out there somewhere beyond us, I’m sure it’s a deception that is here within us. Of course it would be the tragedy of all tragedies, but it will occur and it does occur and it will continue to occur that someone would sit at Grace Community Church and end up saying, “But, Lord, but, Lord,” only to hear, “Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you.”

Our Lord had this concern even in the Olivet Discourse at the end of His ministry when He told a story in the twenty-fifth chapter of Matthew about some virgins who had all the trappings for the great event, waiting for the bridegroom to come for the wedding celebration. Only one thing was missing. What they needed on the inside, oil to light the lamp because they had no oil, symbolic of not having anything on the inside of spiritual light, they were shut out forever, though they had all the external trappings.

I suppose the shocking word here, at least the shocking word for me is the first word of verse 22, “Many will say to Me on that day...” And I can’t help but tie that word back to verse 13, “Many are those who enter on the broad way through the wide gate.” It’s the same many. It’s the religious but lost. It’s the same many who go on the broad road that says heaven, but goes to hell. It’s the same many who when they come to the end of the road think they will be admitted to heaven only to find that the entrance to heaven is from, as it were, the very portals of...the entrance to hell, rather, is from the very portals of heaven. What a shock that is to think you’re on the way to heaven, only to find out you are in hell.

What lulls people into this deception? What does it? How could you get to that place where you’re comfortable in your own deception, your own self-deception, even unaware of it. Well let me suggest some things. There are some things that contributed to this. And I would say, first of all, is a superficial understanding of the gospel, which...by the way...permeates if not dominates quote/unquote Christendom, a failure to understand the true terms of the gospel, the real definition of salvation and saving faith. We have such a weak and shallow and superficial and trivialized emotionalized psychologized approach to the gospel that most people who call themselves Christians couldn’t give you a meaningful explanation of the great doctrines of redemption. They don’t know them. Nor are they expected to know them because in many cases the people who teach them don’t know them either. And so people have a false understanding of their spiritual condition because they don’t even understand what saving faith and what the saving gospel are.... ( there's much more , click the above link to study Dr MacArthur's sermon on Saved or self deceived )

 

[chessman]

Hi chessman,
I have yet to find a quotation from anyone who agrees with your interpretation of Rom 2:6

I have already pointed out to you that Rev Barnes’ interpretation is mostly my interpretation. He’s made the same points I have about the verse, although I’ve shown why this is the correct interpretation (grammar matching of the pronoun form of “his” within “his deeds” Paul chose.

To me, you are exampling a bit of CD here by not recognizing that the commentary/interpretation of this passage by Rev Barnes which you posted mostly has matched my previous points about the passage as well.

Here’s Rev Barnes’ interpretation which matches mine:
Point 1:

It is not true that God will treat people according to their external conduct:

If one has a mind to actually read Prov 24:12, which Paul is literally quoting in Rom 2, this fact is specifically and unequivocally made clear, as I previously pointed out.
Rev Barnes commentary matches my interpretation here.

these wrath-bound people have unrepentant/hard hearts and the reader can decide for themselves if people without repentant hearts are indeed ‘born again’ as you claim. I for one, do not believe someone who has no repentance in their hearts (that’s what the word Paul used for these wrath-receivers means) is born-again

Rev Barnes’ Point 2:

; or who will give to every man as he deserves.

The word Paul used is “render”, not judge. The NT Greek word never means judge.

If your understanding of the verse is that it says God will “judge”, then once again that is provably incorrect. Which is why I don’t share your understanding. The word is render not judge.

Rev Barnes’ Point 3 (and the most applicable to the OP and is causing the most CD):

It is to be observed here that the apostle does not say that people will be rewarded for their deeds, (compare Luke 17:10,) but according to κατά kata their deeds. Christians will be saved on account of the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ, Titus 3:5,

 

[FreeGrace]

Tendencies.
If you believe you will never perish, cannot be taken out of Christs hands, sealed with a deposit.

What does the word "tendencies" have to do with what Scripture actually says?

Now all of these things are true

Yes, they are true.

but why is it some want to add to the words beyond their obvious meaning?

Beats me. And why do some simply NOT believe these things to be true?

It is like saying to someone who gets on a lifeboat, after floating in the sea and saying you are safe
now, no more worries.

No, it's absolutely NOT like that at all.

No one would think this was still true if they then jump back into the sea
and swim away from the life boat. That is putting yourself back in danger, with no safety.

This is a suggestion that a saved person can "jump" out of God's hand. Yet, there is NO Scripture that even hints at that. And we DO HAVE Scripture that plainly says that "no one", meaning "no person" can remove the saved person from God's hand. John 10:28,29.

The saved person is a person, right. So "no one" even includes the saved person themselves.

We don't have the right or power to put ourselves into God's hand, right? So, just the same, we don't have the right or power to remove ourselves from God's hand.

 

[MCoop]

Ask Lucifer, as well as the rest of the sons of God who sinned during the days of Noah.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
2 Peter 2:4


JLB

So your answer is yes correct?

 

[JLB]

No they aren't. v.27 is a description of His sheep, not conditions for getting eternal life. I will again remind this thread of how one obtains eternal life (condition for being given eternal life):
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Believing in Jesus Christ for salvation is the SOLE CONDITION for receiving eternal life. Jesus said so plainly.


We all know what you mean. And Scripture says differently.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

If v.27 was a condition, then the 2 verses would have CLEARLY said so. But there are NO WORDS of conditions.

Here is an example of how the condition of "following Me" would look like.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, ONLY IF they continue to hear my voice and continue to follow Me, and if they do, they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

The words in red show what a "condition" looks like. And Jesus said NO SUCH THING.


Of course it connects the 2 verses, but the word "and" NEVER sets up a condition.

I would recommend what a "condition" actually means. There isn't anything in v.27 or v.28 about conditions to meet.


Missing the point entirely. The condition for eternal life is found in the 10 verses I've just given (again) above. Believing in Christ is the condition for possessing eternal life.


There are no conditions in v.27 that constitute conditions for having eternal life.

Again, the 10 verses above refute your opinion.

I’m not addressing any more of your posts about this topic in this thread.

Go to the new thread, or start one about this or let’s do a one on one debate.



JLB

 

[MCoop]

i dont know what kind of silly question your asking other than the fact you don,t believe in freewill let me answer your per sin with scripture 2nd Corinthians 5:21

Not silly just exposing the silliness of free will. Answer the question. I know Christ was without sin. That’s not what I ask. Was He ABLE to sin?

 

[FreeGrace]

Not silly just exposing the silliness of free will. Answer the question. I know Christ was without sin. That’s not what I ask. Was He ABLE to sin?

Jesus had 2 natures; a human nature and a divine nature as God.

His human nature could sin, but not His divine nature.

The Romans had a phrase for this:
poci non pocari, non poci pocari, which translated means:
able not to sin, not able to sin.

 

[JLB]

No, free will worship is idolatry and is why there is a denial of Gods Sovereignty in salvation. And because free will is taught, the grace of God that saves is denied in salvation and justification. It is why we go round and round on these threads. You can’t logically answer the question and is why you dodge it with an insult

Please post the scripture that teaches us we have no freedom in Christ to choose either good or evil.

 

[ezra]

Not silly just exposing the silliness of free will. Answer the question. I know Christ was without sin. That’s not what I ask. Was He ABLE to sin?

free will is NOT SILLY . if you wish to discuss calvinism start a NEW thread

 

[MCoop]

Here Mcoop is Dr. John MacArthur's words from his now famous sermon called SAVED or Self deceived" (and link provided) :
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-326/saved-or-selfdeceived-part-1
I want you to begin tonight as we return to the Word of God by following as I read Matthew chapter 7, verses 21 to 27...Matthew chapter 7 verses 21 to 27. Here are the words of our Lord Jesus Himself. And they are stunning words, shocking words, and tragic words.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy or preach in Your name? And in Your name cast out demons and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts upon them may be compared to a wise man who built his house upon the rock. And the rain descended and the floods came and the winds blew and burst against that house and yet it did not fall for it had been founded upon the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act upon them will be alike a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. And the rain descended and the floods came and the winds blew and burst against that house and it fell and great was its fall.’”

Perhaps this is the most tragic text in all the Bible. The reality is there will be people one day who stand before the Lord, many of them, who will assume that they are about to enter heaven only to be told they’re on their way to hell. This is the worst possible illusion that someone can have, to be mistaken about your eternal destiny, to be mistaken about your salvation.

I’m often asked the question, “Are Roman Catholics Christians?” And I would pose this question, “Are Protestants naturally or always Christians?” How about another question, “Are evangelicals necessarily Christians?” But a more important question than any of those is, “Are you a Christian?” Could be that you’re among the many who are self-deceived. You’re not alone. I am convinced that in the name of Christianity there are many places that call themselves churches and they’re not churches. And they have men leading them who call themselves pastors and they’re not pastors. And they have congregations who call themselves Christians and they are not Christians. They’re not churches, they’re not pastors, and they’re not Christians and yet they proudly post the label Christian.

Now we learned in our message last time, from verses 13 and 14, that there are only two possible options. There is a narrow gate that goes to heaven and there is a broad road that says heaven but goes to hell. The narrow gate is hard to find and hard to go through because it demands denial of self, denial of self-righteousness, recognition of sin, full repentance, submission to Christ, commitment to obey Him and follow Him no matter what the cost.

It’s hard to find that truth and hearing it, it’s hard to act upon it because of the love of self and the love of sin which is natural to the sinner. The true way to heaven is hard to find. It is away from the crowd. It is narrow, you come naked, you come alone, you come penitent. You strive to enter. At the same time, most religious people are on the broad road and there are plenty of false prophets who are enabling them. They are discussed, by the way, in verses 15 to 20. The false prophets, the false religious leaders, the false representatives of Christ, false agents of God who really are the agents of Satan, they are ministers of Satan disguised as angels of light, leading people on a road that says heaven but ends up in hell. For all the years of my ministry, there has been nothing that has come to the level of my concern for this issue.

Of course it’s a tragedy for Hindus to go to hell, or Buddhists, or Muslims. It’s a tragedy for atheists and Jews who reject the Messiah to go to hell. It’s a tragedy for anyone to go to hell. But it seems to me that the tragedy of all tragedies is the oft repeated Judas tragedy where you hang around Jesus but end up belonging to Satan. That’s the real tragedy. There are pastors who fit into this category, they’re not even Christians. And churches are filled with people, some quote/unquote churches are made up almost all of non-Christians who are deceived about their true spiritual condition.

And so, it’s important for us to hear the words of the Lord. If I’m concerned about this issue, believe me, He’s far more concerned about it as well. And when the Lord said these words, He was not speaking to irreligious people, He was speaking to fastidiously religious people. He was speaking to people who were religious to the max, I suppose we could say. They were obsessed with religion. In fact, they couldn’t divorce their social life, their civil life, their economic life, their family life, their national life from their religion. It permeated everything in Israel. These are THE most religious people. These people are as religious as you can get. But they have no relationship to God and no relationship to Christ. They are religious but lost. They are on the wrong road. To borrow the words of Paul, they have a form of godliness without the reality of it. They are self-deceived.

We have that today, as I said. It is everywhere...everywhere. People who in some way or another are connected to the idea of God and even Jesus, but utterly devoid of any divine life, any knowledge of God, any salvation at all. We have multitudes of deceived souls within churches who are on some kind of Jesus trip, thinking all is well. And the words of our Lord in this text really are the best words to deal with this deception. And I’m sure it’s not just a deception that’s out there somewhere beyond us, I’m sure it’s a deception that is here within us. Of course it would be the tragedy of all tragedies, but it will occur and it does occur and it will continue to occur that someone would sit at Grace Community Church and end up saying, “But, Lord, but, Lord,” only to hear, “Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you.”

Our Lord had this concern even in the Olivet Discourse at the end of His ministry when He told a story in the twenty-fifth chapter of Matthew about some virgins who had all the trappings for the great event, waiting for the bridegroom to come for the wedding celebration. Only one thing was missing. What they needed on the inside, oil to light the lamp because they had no oil, symbolic of not having anything on the inside of spiritual light, they were shut out forever, though they had all the external trappings.

I suppose the shocking word here, at least the shocking word for me is the first word of verse 22, “Many will say to Me on that day...” And I can’t help but tie that word back to verse 13, “Many are those who enter on the broad way through the wide gate.” It’s the same many. It’s the religious but lost. It’s the same many who go on the broad road that says heaven, but goes to hell. It’s the same many who when they come to the end of the road think they will be admitted to heaven only to find that the entrance to heaven is from, as it were, the very portals of...the entrance to hell, rather, is from the very portals of heaven. What a shock that is to think you’re on the way to heaven, only to find out you are in hell.

What lulls people into this deception? What does it? How could you get to that place where you’re comfortable in your own deception, your own self-deception, even unaware of it. Well let me suggest some things. There are some things that contributed to this. And I would say, first of all, is a superficial understanding of the gospel, which...by the way...permeates if not dominates quote/unquote Christendom, a failure to understand the true terms of the gospel, the real definition of salvation and saving faith. We have such a weak and shallow and superficial and trivialized emotionalized psychologized approach to the gospel that most people who call themselves Christians couldn’t give you a meaningful explanation of the great doctrines of redemption. They don’t know them. Nor are they expected to know them because in many cases the people who teach them don’t know them either. And so people have a false understanding of their spiritual condition because they don’t even understand what saving faith and what the saving gospel are.... ( there's much more , click the above link to study Dr MacArthur's sermon on Saved or self deceived )

Please tell me where he teaches one can lose their salvation? Matter of fact John M. is a “Calvinist”. I would suggest you search his beliefs before slandering him. He’s always taught obedience as all true believers do. Self deceived professors in Christ is who John is speaking of