Justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

[savedbygrace57]

Knowledge of Salvation by remission of sins !


Saving Faith is being given a Knowledge of Salvation by the remission of sins Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Which remission is solely by the Blood of Christ, and so God gives everyone for whom Christ died and accomplished it for, a Knowledge of it. Instances in scripture where knowledge corresponds to God given Faith Job 19:25

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Jn 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

2 Tim 1:12

12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

So when Christ's servants were sent out, they were to give Knowledge of Salvation to Christ's People, hence they preached among all nations Repentance and Remission of sins through Christ's Name !

 

[Stan53]

Knowledge of Salvation by remission of sins !
Saving Faith is being given a Knowledge of Salvation by the remission of sins Lk 1:77
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Which remission is solely by the Blood of Christ, and so God gives everyone for whom Christ died and accomplished it for, a Knowledge of it. Instances in scripture where knowledge corresponds to God given Faith Job 19:25
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Jn 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
2 Tim 1:12
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
So when Christ's servants were sent out, they were to give Knowledge of Salvation to Christ's People, hence they preached among all nations Repentance and Remission of sins through Christ's Name !

The knowledge of salvation comes when our sins are forgiven, NOT before.
All these other verses you quote above, are from a post salvation perspective, not pre.

The Great commission in Mattew 28:18-20 states; And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you all the days, to the end of the age.â€

The Good News is Christ and once we receive Him as our Saviour, the Holy Spirit gives us knowledge and remembrance of His Words.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Love for the Truth


Saving Faith is not only an mental assent in the spiritual mind, but also an affection with the Heart for the object of Faith. The Regenerated Man believes with His Heart Rom 10:9 the word heart is the greek word kardia and means:


denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life

1) the vigour and sense of physical life

2) the centre and seat of spiritual life

a) the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

b) of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

A unregenerate man has no spiritual life or affections for the things of God !

Love to Christ must accompany True Faith, because to us that believe, He is Precious 1 Pet 2:6-7

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

There was something recognized about the Saviour, which gave Him value, He was made to be esteemed to those who Believe, but by nature, we esteem Him not Isa 53:3

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Notice the Prophet says we [Believers] esteem him not, meaning by Nature we do not esteem, regard or value Him ! Thats because by nature we are void of any spiritual perception of who He is !

And also when Believing on Christ, there must be a affection of Love because we are receiving the Love of the Truth , contrary to the reprobate who receive it not, and Christ is the Truth ! 2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jn 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Love of the Truth, for Faith worketh by Love ! Gal 5:6

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

When Paul was converted by Grace, God gave Him Faith in place of Unbelief and Love instead of Hate 1 Tim 1:13-14

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

So the Love of the Truth in the Gospel, is but Love to Him. Now I show this to show, that the false teachers say a man may believe on Christ as a unregenerate, dead in trespasses and sins, ungodly sinner ! That they in a natural state of alienation from the Life of God, can and do spiritually recognize the suitableness and preciousness of the Risen Christ, which of course is all lies ! Not one scripture can support that error !

 

[John O]

Love for the Truth

A unregenerate man has no spiritual life or affections for the things of God !

So the Love of the Truth in the Gospel, is but Love to Him. Now I show this to show, that the false teachers say a man may believe on Christ as a unregenerate, dead in trespasses and sins, ungodly sinner ! That they in a natural state of alienation from the Life of God, can and do spiritually recognize the suitableness and preciousness of the Risen Christ, which of course is all lies ! Not one scripture can support that error !

Agreed yet Christ died for us while we yet sinners so it is God that reaches out for the unregenerate man that they might be saved. His faith His grace.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


John O

 

[Stan53]

Love for the Truth


Saving Faith is not only an mental assent in the spiritual mind, but also an affection with the Heart for the object of Faith. The Regenerated Man believes with His Heart Rom 10:9 the word heart is the greek word kardia and means:


denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life

1) the vigour and sense of physical life

2) the centre and seat of spiritual life

a) the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

b) of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

A unregenerate man has no spiritual life or affections for the things of God !

Love to Christ must accompany True Faith, because to us that believe, He is Precious 1 Pet 2:6-7

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

There was something recognized about the Saviour, which gave Him value, He was made to be esteemed to those who Believe, but by nature, we esteem Him not Isa 53:3

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Notice the Prophet says we [Believers] esteem him not, meaning by Nature we do not esteem, regard or value Him ! Thats because by nature we are void of any spiritual perception of who He is !

And also when Believing on Christ, there must be a affection of Love because we are receiving the Love of the Truth , contrary to the reprobate who receive it not, and Christ is the Truth ! 2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jn 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Love of the Truth, for Faith worketh by Love ! Gal 5:6

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

When Paul was converted by Grace, God gave Him Faith in place of Unbelief and Love instead of Hate 1 Tim 1:13-14

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

So the Love of the Truth in the Gospel, is but Love to Him. Now I show this to show, that the false teachers say a man may believe on Christ as a unregenerate, dead in trespasses and sins, ungodly sinner ! That they in a natural state of alienation from the Life of God, can and do spiritually recognize the suitableness and preciousness of the Risen Christ, which of course is all lies ! Not one scripture can support that error !

Thanks for leaving out some of the connotations in Strong's. I suspect they probably didn't suit your eisegesis.

I suggest you read James 2:19...if the devil believe then I'm sure unbelievers can as well. You seem to think that all of a sudden the people in the NT could no longer have spiritual empathy or belief. What is the difference between OT and NT people as far as their souls and spirits are concerned?
Take a look at Romans 1:20; Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made. So they are without excuse.
Sounds to me like one scripture that shows man not only knows God in his own spiritual nature, but has no excuse for not accepting Jesus.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Same Spirit of Faith !


2 Cor 4:13-14

13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

This is similar to saying what Peter wrote 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

In our Text it is the Spirit of God being referred to as the Spirit of Faith, because faith in the heart is of His producing, its not of ourselves, for it is His Fruit, the other fruits in the heart are of His producing as well, such as love, Joy and Peace Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

That word fruit in the greek is karpos and means:


that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result

When one is born again, they receive a spiritual nature which produces Faith, Love and etc.

The one just born of flesh does not produce Faith !

Here is what the flesh produces and the list is partial here Gal 5:18-21


18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now how can Faith in Christ be generated from the flesh ? Its a miracle if man dead in trespasses and sins can put Faith in Christ for Salvation ! And if it is done without being born again which is God's way, then the man who did place saving faith in Christ did perform their own miracle as if they were God Almighty themselves !

 

[Stan53]

When one is born again, they receive a spiritual nature which produces Faith, Love and etc.

Ephesians 2:8-9

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Paul is pretty clear that we have saving faith BEFORE we are saved.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The word does not profit if not mixed with Faith !Heb 4:2


Heb 4:2

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Did you know that the Gospel was preached to the OC People Israel also ? The same Gospel that was Preached under the New Covenant ? However as then so it is today, the Gospel being preached does not profit or prevail to those who hear it if they have no Faith; And their is no Faith without the fruit and grace of the Spirit. For believing is not the producer of Grace, but Grace [The Spirit] is the producer of Faith, hence we that do believe, believe through Grace ! Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Notice, the Word they heard , the Gospel they heard did not profit because not mixed with Faith. Now how does that square with Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Certainly the hearing here is different from that of Heb 4:2. Here in Rom 10:17 the hearing produces Faith, there the hearing produces nothing because of lack of Faith ! What is the difference ? The Grace of the Spirit. When one has Spiritual Life already, when they hear with spiritual ears, that produces Faith because Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, the effect of New Birth !

 

[Stan53]

Heb 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Did you know that the Gospel was preached to the OC People Israel also ? The same Gospel that was Preached under the New Covenant ? However as then so it is today, the Gospel being preached does not profit or prevail to those who hear it if they have no Faith; And their is no Faith without the fruit and grace of the Spirit. For believing is not the producer of Grace, but Grace [The Spirit] is the producer of Faith, hence we that do believe, believe through Grace ! Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Actually Heb 4:2 says; For we also had good news proclaimed to us just as they did; but the word they heard did not benefit those who were not united with those who listened in faith. It doesn't say THE good news. Christ is THE Good News. THE Good News is part of the NC, not the OC. If you also read Heb 1:19, you will see it says; So then we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

We are saved BY God's grace, which is a part of His character, and NOT another name for the Holy Spirit. This Grace takes ahold of our lives THROUGH faith, just as God's grace in delivering the Children of Israel had to find acceptance by them through faith. Their unbelief in God being able to use Moses to deliver them, was because they did NOT have faith in God. Those in Acts 17 came to believe just as those in Eph 2 did, grace through faith.

Now how does that square with Rom 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Certainly the hearing here is different from that of Heb 4:2. Here in Rom 10:17 the hearing produces Faith, there the hearing produces nothing because of lack of Faith ! What is the difference ? The Grace of the Spirit. When one has Spiritual Life already, when they hear with spiritual ears, that produces Faith because Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, the effect of New Birth !

Well it doesn't SQUARE because Romans 10:17 is talking about another issue. Paul writes; 17 So faith comes from hearing the message, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for, “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." ALL of Israel heard, but not all believed. Paul goes on to explain here; But I ask, did Israel not understand? First of all, Moses says, “I will make you jealous by those who are not a nation; by a nation void of understanding I will make you angry.†20 Then Isaiah very boldly says, “I was found by those who were not looking for me; I became well known to those who were not asking for me.†21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and argumentative people.â€
What is important is to read ALL of Romans within context and not PICK out verses. Paul shows here that ALL heard and understood, some of them refused to believe. Just as it is today. We ALL hear about Christ and understand what we hear. Some choose to accept and some choose not to. That is their choice. Grace is extended to all, but NOT all accept. Faith is NOT the fruit of the Spirit, Faith cause the fruit to grow. The fruit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. The same faith that caused us to believe and accept Jesus Christ is the faith that causes us to grow in Christ and produce fruit.

 

[savedbygrace57]

A Promise to the Just !


Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Just shall, not maybe or might or possibly, but they shall live by Faith !

Also if any soul do draw back Heb 10:38

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

If any man apostatizes from the Faith of the Gospel, then they were never Just in the first place !

So as promised, the Just shall live by Faith, and this Faith cometh by Hearing by the Word of God Rom 10:17, which is the Voice of the Logos of God, as He speaks by His Gospel !

Now with that in Mind, it was stated clearly that Cornelius was a Just Man Acts 10:22

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

And since the Divine Promise is that the Just shall live by Faith, it was needs be that the Gospel be sent to him so that, he being a just man, that he should live by the Faith of the Gospel. The Gospel shall reveal to him a Righteousness from God by Jesus Christ Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

It [The Gospel Righteousness] was revealed to Faith ! We know Cornelius had God given Faith because he was one that feared God, which meant he was born again of the Spirit, of which Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22. The Gospel was to Cornelius as it is to all the regenerated, those who fear God Acts 13:16,26 a Word of Salvation !

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Folks, if we are not first given a New Heart by New Birth, then the Gospel as a word of Salvation, is not sent to us, but in such a case it is sent as a Judgment, or death unto death, for we are perishing 2 Cor 2:14-16

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

Now how is one Just before God ? Simple, by the Blood of Christ, by the Grace of God ! Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

So if Christ shed His Blood in behalf of One, then they shall live by Faith, it is a Divine promise !

 

[smaller]

Well it doesn't SQUARE because Romans 10:17 is talking about another issue. Paul writes; 17 So faith comes from hearing the message, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for, “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." ALL of Israel heard, but not all believed. Paul goes on to explain here; But I ask, did Israel not understand? First of all, Moses says, “I will make you jealous by those who are not a nation; by a nation void of understanding I will make you angry.†20 Then Isaiah very boldly says, “I was found by those who were not looking for me; I became well known to those who were not asking for me.†21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and argumentative people.â€
What is important is to read ALL of Romans within context and not PICK out verses. Paul shows here that ALL heard and understood, some of them refused to believe. Just as it is today. We ALL hear about Christ and understand what we hear. Some choose to accept and some choose not to. That is their choice. Grace is extended to all, but NOT all accept. Faith is NOT the fruit of the Spirit, Faith cause the fruit to grow. The fruit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. The same faith that caused us to believe and accept Jesus Christ is the faith that causes us to grow in Christ and produce fruit.

When any believer witnesses the Life of God in Christ to any unsaved person, they are not just addressing the person alone. There is a mind blocker firmly in place over such hearers.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

There is, in effect one who 'might' hear and one who definitely will not hear under any circumstances.

It is entirely up to God Himself to 'allow' that other working to be pulled back off such minds in order to hear and believe. Otherwise it is God Himself, by His Words that causes the other working to remain firmly in the place and palace of 'resistance' in their minds.

God Himself put this same principle on the unbelieving of Israel as Paul showed here for example. (there are more examples of this principle as well.)

Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

Freewill choice? Not a chance. The god of this world, the spirit of slumber does what he does in opposition to Gods Words by Divine Intentions. No man can hear unless God Himself allows it.

This same exact principle is a fulcrum of both the Gospel and understanding the entirety of the text. It is stated by Jesus in Mark 4:15 and shows exactly what happens and how it happens.

And it has exactly nothing to do with the person themselves, alone.

If God elects to 'honor' the proclamation of His witness, then He Alone allows that person to hear and believe. Otherwise the thief of Word remains in place over such minds.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Stan53]

When any believer witnesses the Life of God in Christ to any unsaved person, they are not just addressing the person alone. There is a mind blocker firmly in place over such hearers.
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
There is, in effect one who 'might' hear and one who definitely will not hear under any circumstances.
It is entirely up to God Himself to 'allow' that other working to be pulled back off such minds in order to hear and believe. Otherwise it is God Himself, by His Words that causes the other working to remain firmly in the place and palace of 'resistance' in their minds.

That would be a negative reading of that scripture. Only god and the devil KNOW who doesn't believe, we don't. Every one 'hears'. The blinded one may not see the truth, but they hear it. Just as Paul said, there are those that will hear and obey, and those that won't, period. These verses read; On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

God can do anything He wants to draw people to His Son. No matter what the devil can do, God's power is greater and gives sight to the blind.

God Himself put this same principle on the unbelieving of Israel as Paul showed here for example. (there are more examples of this principle as well.)
Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
Freewill choice? Not a chance. The god of this world, the spirit of slumber does what he does in opposition to Gods Words by Divine Intentions. No man can hear unless God Himself allows it.

The only principle you are using is the one of eisegesis. Paul explained why so many Israelites didn't believe, but he also says in v11; So I ask, did they stumble so as to fall? By no means!

The fact is that people CHOOSE to NOT believe. What God does with His chosen people is not the same as how He deals with us. The bottom line is, that NO ONE can come to Jesus unless the father draws him. Once there, the choice is made, not predetermined. That is the principle of salvation, free choice.

This same exact principle is a fulcrum of both the Gospel and understanding the entirety of the text. It is stated by Jesus in Mark 4:15 and shows exactly what happens and how it happens.
And it has exactly nothing to do with the person themselves, alone.
If God elects to 'honor' the proclamation of His witness, then He Alone allows that person to hear and believe. Otherwise the thief of Word remains in place over such minds.

Yes what Jesus shows in Mark 4:15 is what does happen. It is not predetermined, it is the condition of the ground being sown and the fact that God does NOT disacriminate where He sows, nor should we. The facts of what happens to people who have the Good News sown into their lives is NOT a principle. If God was to actually predetermine who got saved, then He would never sow in places that could not sustain the seed. Giving the enemy more power then he actually has is defeatest and does not honour God's power. The FACT is what God's Word says in 2 Peter 3:9; The Lord is not late in fulfilling his promise, as some regard lateness, but is patient toward you, not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[smaller]

That would be a negative reading of that scripture.

It says what it says.

The only principle you are using is the one of eisegesis. Paul explained why so many Israelites didn't believe, but he also says in v11; So I ask, did they stumble so as to fall? By no means!

The fact is that people CHOOSE to NOT believe.

That has about zero to do with the obvious fact that their minds were not alone or that God put upon them the spirit of stupor/slumber or allows minds to be blinded by the god of this world.

Jesus taught the identical principle in Mark 4:15, which I take to be a rather solid fact.

You are certainly welcome to see past the obvious and claim 'my' eisegeis when the fact is more than likely said facts don't jive with your own impositions.

My bad? Prolly not.

s

 

[Stan53]

It says what it says.



That has about zero to do with the obvious fact that their minds were not alone or that God put upon them the spirit of stupor/slumber or allows minds to be blinded by the god of this world.

Jesus taught the identical principle in Mark 4:15, which I take to be a rather solid fact.

You are certainly welcome to see past the obvious and claim 'my' eisegeis when the fact is more than likely said facts don't jive with your own impositions.

My bad? Prolly not.

Good rebuttal...like I said.

 

[smaller]

Good rebuttal...like I said.

It's not a new thing to fail to account for the other parties. Most believers are 'led' to blame only man's will by that same 'other' working.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

Faith and Repentance are a one package deal !

Matt 21:32

32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

When God or Christ gives Repentance, He also accompanies that with Faith, for Repentance is but the signal of Faith or believing or it is given in order to believe, as Per The Text Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Elect are given Repentance [a change of mind] about lies and false religions or dead works, and given Faith to believe the Truth. An Illustration of how Repentance works when applied by the New Birth is here in 1 Thess 1:9

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols[Repentance] to serve the living and true God[Faith];

BTW that word turned is the greek word epistrephō and means:


transitively

a) to turn to

1) to the worship of the true God

b) to cause to return, to bring back

1) to the love and obedience of God

2) to the love for the children

3) to love wisdom and righteousness

2) intransitively

a) to turn to one's self

b) to turn one's self about, turn back

c) to return, turn back, come back

It is used in 1 Pet 2:25 here

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Here it is in the passive voice, in 1 Thess 1:9 it has no voice but is an aorist indicative, meaning it is making a statement of fact, that is the turning occurred or will occur, but the 1 Peter reference gives us to understand that the ones turning are being turned and that by the Gift of Repentance being applied to them, and yes, they do become active in this. Its like the Prophet said of old Jer 31:18

I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.

God given Repentance turns us from Idols or false religions , be they whatever, and turns us to serving [by faith] the True and Living God, for there is no serving God acceptably without God given Faith Heb 11:6.

So basically, whom God gives Repentance, He is giving them full conversion, in which the elect are active, but they are active because of having been born again, as being a New Creature. The Elect are active in their conversion only as they have been born of incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

or as they have been begotten again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

begotten again means:

to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

That is exactly what 1 Thess 1:9 is describing ! So where there is Repentance given, so it is Faith given Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance [and faith] to Israel, and[Knowledge of] forgiveness of sins.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Faith and Repentance after Spirit has been poured out!


Now in some scriptures it appears Faith goes before Repentance as here in Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look[With Faith] upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn[with Godly Sorrow] for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Now however it may be, we know also from here that both Faith and Repentance are fruits of having had the Spirit of Grace Poured out upon them Titus 3:6 and having partook of a Sovereign Work of the Spirit bears this out. NOW it reads the Spirit of Grace, but it could very well read, the Grace of the Spirit. Now we can see that both Repentance and Faith accompany one another, and add to the fact that both God and Christ are said to give Repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

And now in Zech 12:10 we see it being the Spirit and His Grace giving Repentance, for we can safely say that the Triune God gives Repentance to His Elect, as Christ gives both Repentance and Remission of sins, so by Christ given Faith they embrace the forgiveness of their sins !

 

[Stan53]

It's not a new thing to fail to account for the other parties. Most believers are 'led' to blame only man's will by that same 'other' working.

You do realize I was being facetious?

 

[smaller]

You do realize I was being facetious?

Yeah, better method than dealing with factual content.

 

[Stan53]

Faith and Repentance after Spirit has been poured out!


Now in some scriptures it appears Faith goes before Repentance as here in Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look[With Faith] upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn[with Godly Sorrow] for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Now however it may be, we know also from here that both Faith and Repentance are fruits of having had the Spirit of Grace Poured out upon them Titus 3:6 and having partook of a Sovereign Work of the Spirit bears this out. NOW it reads the Spirit of Grace, but it could very well read, the Grace of the Spirit. Now we can see that both Repentance and Faith accompany one another, and add to the fact that both God and Christ are said to give Repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

And now in Zech 12:10 we see it being the Spirit and His Grace giving Repentance, for we can safely say that the Triune God gives Repentance to His Elect, as Christ gives both Repentance and Remission of sins, so by Christ given Faith they embrace the forgiveness of their sins !

What I see in all these verses is old English being interpreted by you. Given your apparent familiarity with how these verses fit together, it is clear you have been practising eisegesis for years, or are simply cutting and pasting from another source. I really don't have the will anymore to comment on your misuse of scripture. No matter how you combine these individual verses, they do NOT add up to your postulations. Apparently the spirit of stupor didn't just exist in the NT.