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KEEPING THE FAITH

Jethro Bodine said:
John 5:24
1 corinthians 15:1-2

I am born again. Just as the Bible says, the presently believing person is presently saved.

Read the Bible. And read it without the bias of a denomination. Let it tell you the truth.
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Great for you sir. I am kind of glad it wasn't offered to me, but if it was I would accept the position, and no doubt you will not regret serving in that capacity at all. It is a great sacrifice for sure.

I told you what the Bible said about saved sir, you simply disagreed, we both cannot be correct.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
The kingdom of God is where the Son of God rules.

Just as it is true of any kingdom, one's kingdom is the land and the people that they own and rule over. Jesus' kingdom in the earth at this present time is the hearts and minds of his people. That is the land, the soil of the earth that constitutes his kingdom and which he owns and rules over in the earth. No one observes it's coming. Nor can anyone point to it and say, "there it is!" because it is a kingdom of the soil of men's hearts. When he returns all of the earth and it's inhabitants will be under his authority, control, and rule. And so the kingdom of God will fill the whole earth.
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Jethro Bodine said:
The kingdom of God is where the Son of God rules.

Just as it is true of any kingdom, one's kingdom is the land and the people that they own and rule over.
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Jethro Bodine said:
When he returns all of the earth and it's inhabitants will be under his authority, control, and rule. And so the kingdom of God will fill the whole earth.
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These two things from your post are correct Jethro.
 
wondering said:
Yes, of course.
This would fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant.

In the Abrahamic Covenant we see that God wanted to call a people unto Himself.
A people through which all nations would be blessed.
This people were to prepare the earth for the coming Messiah that would set up the Kingdom of God here on earth.
This is an unconditional covenant - it will come about without being conditioned on man's actions or approvals. It is unilateral, and will be accomplished.
Genesis 12:1-3
1The LORD had said to Abram, “Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father’s family, and go to the land that I will show you.
2I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others.
3I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.”
Genesis 15:18-21
Genesis 17:1-14
This is the basic information for the Abrahamic Covenant...there's much more.


Jesus meant to make a change in mankind...it was not only to be internal - salvation - but external, by the Christians actions and good deeds, Jesus meant for the earth to be a better place. He meant for mankind to be changed from the inside out and He meant for this to benefit not only ourselves, but all of humankind around us. Jesus wanted our world to be a better world.

Matthew 5:13
13“You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless.

14“You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden. 15No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father.


The Davidic Covenant states that Jesus will be the King of the earthly Kingdom.
There is a spiritual Kingdom all around us.
It is meant to create a better world for everyone.




This is the 2nd reason and requires no further comment.


The above speaks about the New Jerusalem. We all agree on this - perhaps some small details are different, I really don't know. Jesus will reign on the New Earth after the end.

And I do NOT mean that the citizens are being gathered.
I mean what I stated as the reason number 1 at the beginning of this post.
The Kingdom of God exists now and here.
Christianity did make the world a better place after much darkness.
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We agree mostly maam, with the exception of the Kingdom being here now. I do believe the heavenly Kingdom is established and Jesus is ruling as King. The signs he gave the apostles in Mat 24 was about that, and the outbreak of WW#1 indicates to me that he had indeed received the crown by that time. So since the generation of that time is quite old, his return has to be very close, which will establish the earthly part of the Kingdom. The earthly part is not established here now, as the wicked are still here.
 
wondering said:
Because Jesus meant for the Kingdom of God to be present on earth does not mean that a literal Kingdom is not coming at the end of this age.

That Kingdom will be after the end, after the tribulation, at that time there will be a new earth a new Jerusalem, a new Kingdom - literally.

As Jethro Bodine has stated, the Kingdom now is a Kingdom that is found inside the hearts of believers - it's a literal spritual Kingdom that is meant to make the world a better place.

It is not to be confused with the coming Kingdom when Jesus will RULE the new earth.
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wondering said:
Because Jesus meant for the Kingdom of God to be present on earth does not mean that a literal Kingdom is not coming at the end of this age.

That Kingdom will be after the end, after the tribulation, at that time there will be a new earth a new Jerusalem, a new Kingdom - literally.
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I knew we were close in our understanding maam, but we exactly agree on this.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
It’s most often left out of a gospel presentation. It’s usually an appeal to accept Jesus into your heart. That’s it. Maybe, a big maybe, feel a bit sorry for your sin nature you were born with and can’t help.
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That is simply a term that some preachers use, it is not found in the Bible. The first step of everlasting life is found at John 17:3, we have to take in knowledge of God and Jesus and come to know them. Becoming a Christian is progressive, and eternal I might add. One either forms a bond, a friendship with God or they don't. Saying I accept Jesus into my heart has no relevancy on anything, it is the actual fruits that matter.
 
Highway54 said:
We agree mostly maam, with the exception of the Kingdom being here now. I do believe the heavenly Kingdom is established and Jesus is ruling as King. The signs he gave the apostles in Mat 24 was about that, and the outbreak of WW#1 indicates to me that he had indeed received the crown by that time. So since the generation of that time is quite old, his return has to be very close, which will establish the earthly part of the Kingdom. The earthly part is not established here now, as the wicked are still here.
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I think we agree that there will be a physical Kingdom on earth in the future, maybe very close in time.

It's the Spritual Kingdom, which is also literal and had physical/natural effects that we don't agree on, but I think it might be because I'm not explaining properly. I believe it's accepted by most Christians. At least, those that have given it some thought.
 
Highway54 said:
That is simply a term that some preachers use, it is not found in the Bible. The first step of everlasting life is found at John 17:3, we have to take in knowledge of God and Jesus and come to know them. Becoming a Christian is progressive, and eternal I might add. One either forms a bond, a friendship with God or they don't. Saying I accept Jesus into my heart has no relevancy on anything, it is the actual fruits that matter.
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This is very true.
I do believe that Dorothy Mae agrees with you.
 
Highway54 said:
That is simply a term that some preachers use, it is not found in the Bible. The first step of everlasting life is found at John 17:3, we have to take in knowledge of God and Jesus and come to know them. Becoming a Christian is progressive, and eternal I might add. One either forms a bond, a friendship with God or they don't. Saying I accept Jesus into my heart has no relevancy on anything, it is the actual fruits that matter.
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BTW, the sin nature is believed by Christianity and taught in the NT.

The other member has a problem with this teaching...I don't understand why since she's very intelligent and knows scripture well, but it is certainly her right.
 
Highway54 said:
Salvation is dependent upon different things, but to sum it up it is mainly obedience based upon capability from what I gather.
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A person becomes a saved person the moment they are justified. And justification occurs soley by receiving the forgiveness of God by faith in the promised Son, apart from works (Romans 4:6). Just as that was true for Abraham, our example of justification by faith (Romans 4:23-24).

And so no works are required to become saved. But works will be required to be judged worthy to enter the kingdom and be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus returns, not because those works make you a saved person but because those works show you to already be a saved person rescued from the wrath of God through faith in Jesus (John 5:24).

Works show you to be a saved person. They do not make you a saved person. If anyone thinks works makes them a saved person they are a serving a false gospel of works justification and will not be saved when Jesus comes back.
 
Highway54 said:
Great for you sir. I am kind of glad it wasn't offered to me, but if it was I would accept the position, and no doubt you will not regret serving in that capacity at all. It is a great sacrifice for sure.
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Are you talking about the position of being born again? All believing people who have received the gospel of Christ are born again (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Highway54 said:
I told you what the Bible said about saved sir, you simply disagreed, we both cannot be correct.
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What is it about John 5:24 that you do not agree with?
 
I don't know. I've been through thick and thin with my faith. Right now it feels like I'm hanging on by a thread. I always come back and I'm sure this will be no different..... What keeps me coming back is knowing what I experienced before, and that it was real.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
17For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. Isaiah 65:17

13But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:13
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LOL
I think Riven was just kidding around.
Maybe he likes those rings around Saturn?

Look, there he goes!

images
 
evenifigoalone said:
I don't know. I've been through thick and thin with my faith. Right now it feels like I'm hanging on by a thread. I always come back and I'm sure this will be no different..... What keeps me coming back is knowing what I experienced before, and that it was real.
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Wow E,
You don't know what a great testimony this is!
Same with me.
We all go through this, but God always calls us back and reminds
us of our invitation to His home!
 
wondering said:
I think we agree that there will be a physical Kingdom on earth in the future, maybe very close in time.

It's the Spritual Kingdom, which is also literal and had physical/natural effects that we don't agree on, but I think it might be because I'm not explaining properly. I believe it's accepted by most Christians. At least, those that have given it some thought.
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I don't think you are not explaining it to where I cannot understand it maam, I can give you my thoughts on it though. Jesus made a covenant with his faithful 11 apostles on the day of his death after they ate the Passover meal. These ones of that covenant were purchased by the blood of Christ to be his bride for a special assignment. Much of the new testament was written to them, and gives the reason they were selected. If you want to attach the name spiritual Kingdom to part of the Kingdom of God, they would be it. They will reside in heaven, and will be Kings and Priests under King Jesus in that heavenly Kingdom. Rev 5:9,10; 14:3.

It is really easy to understand if you realize why God created the earth, which you seem to already have a grasp on. God intended to populate the earth, and what goes forth out of His mouth will be fulfilled. Isa 55:11
 
wondering said:
BTW, the sin nature is believed by Christianity and taught in the NT.

The other member has a problem with this teaching...I don't understand why since she's very intelligent and knows scripture well, but it is certainly her right.
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Remember the lesson of Mat 7:21-23, one has to worship God in the way He desires, not how we choose it. The Bible is clear on what God's will is, although like Jesus I have to agree that most decide to take the broad way. Admittedly it is the path of the least resistance.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
A person becomes a saved person the moment they are justified. And justification occurs soley by receiving the forgiveness of God by faith in the promised Son, apart from works (Romans 4:6). Just as that was true for Abraham, our example of justification by faith (Romans 4:23-24).

And so no works are required to become saved. But works will be required to be judged worthy to enter the kingdom and be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus returns, not because those works make you a saved person but because those works show you to already be a saved person rescued from the wrath of God through faith in Jesus (John 5:24).

Works show you to be a saved person. They do not make you a saved person. If anyone thinks works makes them a saved person they are a serving a false gospel of works justification and will not be saved when Jesus comes back.
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I disagree Jethro, I find that most people simply do not know what the term means Biblically. If one does not receive everlasting life in the judgment, then obviously they were not saved. Most simply apply the term to themselves because they consider themselves Christians, and we know Jesus' followers will receive everlasting life. In essence they have given themselves the judgment of life. Jesus has the keys to life and death, and it is he that determines that.

The term saved is short for salvation, and the definition is having the gift of everlasting life bestowed upon them Rom 6:23. The only way to guarantee your salvation is to obey the law of the Christ. No it doesn't have to be perfect, as we all sin, but the truly honest and repentant heart can be forgiven through the blood sacrifice of Jesus. As the Bible says most people think they are righteous, in other words saved, but few are actually on the path. Mat 7:14
 
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