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Kids Fighting Back

Passivity or violence.
The Amish are an example of the total Christian pacifist. Thing is, they can only survive to practice their beliefs behind those who are willing to protect their freedom with the use of force.
I could say, "OK, I'm a strict pacifist. Since you don't believe as I do then you do the fighting so I can practice my beliefs."

No, it's not a perfect world, it's a fallen world. The perfect world is our hope, our faith that Christ prepares a place for us and will return to deliver us into that perfect world of heavenly existence.

It's OK by me if one wishes to follow a strict passive belief but I don't think it's all that great to belittle those who assure the environment whereby one can be that passive and live as their belief warrants free of fear of oppression, threat or outright slaughter. It's easy to preach passivity while standing behind the biggest guns the world has ever known.
 
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Drew said:
I am quite confident he will indeed pay - God will no doubt remember this event when he, like you and me, stand at the judgement seat.[...]

However, moral outrage, yours or mine, is not the factor that determines what should be done with this guy. Jesus' command to forgive, love our enemies, and be healers is. Now please do not morph this into any kind of assertion that I do not want this guy to be sent to prison.
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The situation here is not for anyone to defend themselves.

Here is this poor old woman - who knows, she might have been extremely evil, but I doubt it - being burnt to death, deliberately, callously, and evilly. Agonisingly is not too strong a word.

I wonder what Jesus would have done if He was at the elevator while the guy was pouring the petrol on her and setting her alight, supposing that He didn't have the powers of the HSp?

If you stand by, and watch someone being murdered, and do nothing when you could have done something effective, doesn't that somehow make you an accessory to the deed?

Here's Proverbs 24 on the subject:

11 ¶ If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

The CJB (Complete Jewish Bible) is even more pointed:

11 ¶ yes, rescue those being dragged off to death—won’t you save those about to be killed?
12 if you say, “we knew nothing about it,” won’t he who weighs hearts discern it? yes, he who guards you will know it and repay each one as his deeds deserve.

What do you think Jesus would have done?

The Law said that you were not to see your neighbour's donkey fallen down, and fail to go help it up:

Deut 22.4 You shall not see your brother’s donkey or his ox fallen down by the way and ignore them. You shall help him to lift them up again.

Don't you think this principle still holds good? Here's your neighbour, not his donkey, fallen down. Shouldn't you help by whatever means necessary?

Remember Jesus talking about somebody's sheep fallen down a pit, and going to pick it up?

This, of course is the argument that tribunals put to conscientious objectors like myself: what would you do if your wife/child was being attacked by an enemy soldier intent on murder, rape and/or torture?

I don't know what my own answer would be - what would yours be, I ask.
 
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I'm a female, and when I was 12 years old, a boy came up to me while I was holding a binder and papers for classes. He smacked his hand down on my binder and it went flying down a wheelchair ramp, and then he started pushing me into the railings on the ramp. There were no teachers around, and when I started blocking my face with my arms crossed, he started hitting between my arms to separate them so he could hit me in the face. I started to get angry because he was pushing me down this ramp and I fell down a couple times. When I got up he came back at me and I pushed him so I wouldn't fall down the wheel chair ramp even more. A teacher walked passed us right when I push him, and I got suspended, and he wasn't even reprimanded for what he did to me. There were several kids there who were witnesses telling him to stop, but the teachers punished me for pushing him.

I got bullied a lot in school for multiple things, and I had to deal with kids hitting me and kicking me all the time. Mostly boys too.

Do you think what I did was wrong?
 
Riniel said:
I'm a female, and when I was 12 years old, a boy came up to me while I was holding a binder and papers for classes. He smacked his hand down on my binder and it went flying down a wheelchair ramp, and then he started pushing me into the railings on the ramp. There were no teachers around, and when I started blocking my face with my arms crossed, he started hitting between my arms to separate them so he could hit me in the face. I started to get angry because he was pushing me down this ramp and I fell down a couple times. When I got up he came back at me and I pushed him so I wouldn't fall down the wheel chair ramp even more. A teacher walked passed us right when I push him, and I got suspended, and he wasn't even reprimanded for what he did to me. There were several kids there who were witnesses telling him to stop, but the teachers punished me for pushing him.

I got bullied a lot in school for multiple things, and I had to deal with kids hitting me and kicking me all the time. Mostly boys too.

Do you think what I did was wrong?
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No you was not wrong, and i am sorry that you always got picked on. You should have kicked him in between his legs.
 
Lewis W said:
Drew the Moral Law of Moses still stands.
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I suggest that there is no Biblical basis whatsoever for "splitting" the Law of Moses into a "moral" part and a "non-moral" part and then declaring that that the "moral" part still applies and the "non-moral" part does not. This "pick and choose" approach is not suppored Biblically.

To repeat: When people like me agree with Paul that the Law of Moses - including the 10 commandments - has been "abolished", we are, of course, not logically forced into the position of asserting that its OK to murder, commit adultery etc.

The Scriptures are clear - the written code of the Law of Moses has indeed been abolished:

From Ephesians 2:

For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, <SUP id=en-NASB-29245 class=versenum>15</SUP> by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, ...

From Romans 7:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

From Galatians:

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. <SUP id=en-NASB-29127 class=versenum>24</SUP> Therefore the Law has become ourtutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. <SUP id=en-NASB-29128 class=versenum>25</SUP> But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

....and there are more.

Please explain to us all how these texts can be taken seriously without concluding that the Law of Moses has been retired.

And while you're at it, please explain how these texts can be read as declaring one part of the law to be retired, and another part retained.
 
GojuBrian said:
He needs to be set on fire.
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This statement needs to be rebuked.

This is a gross misrepresentation of the gospel position on dealing with enemies. While there is perhaps some legitimate debate about how to deal with the issue of defending oneself and others, this notion that we should "set the guy on fire" is a deep insult to the gospel and needs to be identified as such.

You are seeking blood revenge, pure and simple. And this is clearly the very antithesis of the gospel message.
 
Drew wrote
I suggest that there is no Biblical basis whatsoever for "splitting" the Law of Moses into a "moral" part and a "non-moral" part and then declaring that that the "moral" part still applies and the "non-moral" part does not. This "pick and choose" approach is not suppored Biblically.
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Drew you are as wrong as 2 left shoes.
You mean to sit up there and tell me that the Moral law and the Sacrificial Law are not different. Drew have you fallen off a cliff on your head or something. I believe that you have gone absolutely crazy, looney:eeeekkk. Drew we do not have to sacrifice animals anymore. But we still must not sleep with our own mothers, sisters, and we still are not to steal, kill, rape, cheat, lie, and etc. Come on man give me a break.:o
 
Lewis W said:
Should our kids and grand kids fight back in school or the play ground if they are being bullied ? Don't our children have the right to protect themselves. In the old days our parents would make us fight back. Many kids who did not fight back ended up dead or hurt real bad. I am talking about our kids protecting themselves not starting fights. And many times when the kids go and tell teachers or adults they get picked on even worse, and now they are being called little girls for running and telling. Now the bulling gets worse. I think that in some cases a kid has to stand up for him or herself and knock somebodies block off.
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Bullies,,,there's an awful lot of talk about them. In fact, the topic of bullying has arrested the attention of the nation via the various media outlets. It's a much talked about problem nowadays, and of course the media couldn't pass up the chance to waive the topic around when the Columbine massacre occurred.


It ain't hard to see where the people pulling the strings are going with this.
 
Please Read


Bullying in the Philadelphia School District

The Philadelphia School District has a problem with bullying. Over the summer, students from a charter school attacked a couple of people in the violent flash mobs that seem to plague this city in recent months. More recently, a group of girls engaging in relational aggression caused several people to get shot, including a toddler.


In order to understand why bullying and violence is such a big problem you have to understand why kids bully. For years it was felt that kids who become bullies were once bullied themselves, but this isn’t true. Kids bully for power and control over others; to make themselves feel good. Some kids are also just plain mean.
Bullying is a learned behavior and how a child treats others usually it's because of their home environment. Most bullies come from either dysfunctional or violent families.


Bullying or school violence also increases in overcrowded classrooms which is also a problem especially with all the budget cuts from last year. Classrooms are often disruptive and are the perfect breeding ground for bullying. With the elimination of staff within the schools there are also less people to monitor the students which give them free reign.


The adults also have to take responsibility for the violence in the schools. Teachers set the tone for the classroom. If a student reports that another student is bullying them, a teacher may simply tell them to ignore the person. The bully gets the idea, from the teacher’s response, that what they’re doing is okay. Principals and staff who ignore or excuse violence are a big part of the problem.


Ask any kid, ignoring someone doesn’t work.
The school district puts policies into place to address bullying, but most students aren’t aware of them because no one sits down and explains it to them. The district also believes that putting up one or two anti-bullying posters and doing one assembly per year is good enough, but it isn’t. A successful bullying prevention program includes repetition. To teach the students about bullying, ways to protect themselves and school policies must be ongoing and every student must hear it.


The school district gets an F grade for bullying prevention because they fail to see that it affects not only their attendance, but test scores and grades as well. They also fail to get parents involved in the process of teaching children about bullying.
http://www.examiner.com/school-bullying-in-philadelphia/bullying-the-philadelphia-school-district
 
Lewis W said:
Drew you are as wrong as 2 left shoes.
You mean to sit up there and tell me that the Moral law and the Sacrificial Law are not different. Drew have you fallen off a cliff on your head or something. I believe that you have gone absolutely crazy, looney:eeeekkk. Drew we do not have to sacrifice animals anymore. But we still must not sleep with our own mothers, sisters, and we still are not to steal, kill, rape, cheat, lie, and etc. Come on man give me a break.:o
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You are making precisely the error of logic that I have identified multiple times. You (and some others) falsely believe that a person who says that Law of Moses has been retired is therefore buying into the notion that it is acceptable to murder, commit adultery, and perform a host of moral transgresssions are outlawed by the Law of Moses.

This is simply a false argument.

Paul goes to great lengths to tell us that the Holy Spirit "replaces" the Law of Moses as the source of moral guidance - we no longer need a written code to tell us how to live.

Again, I see no Biblical case whatsoever for carving up the Law of Moses into two parts and, seemingly arbitrarily, deciding that one part remains and the other part is retired.
 
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Drew said:
You are making precisely the error of logic that I have identified multiple times. You (and some others) falsely believe that a person who says that Law of Moses has been retired is therefore buying into the notion that it is acceptable to murder, commit adultery, and perform a host of moral transgresssions are outlawed by the Law of Moses.

This is simply a false argument.

Paul goes to great lengths to tell us that the Holy Spirit "replaces" the Law of Moses as the source of moral guidance - we no longer need a written code to tell us how to live.

Again, I see no Biblical case whatsoever for carving up the Law of Moses into two parts and, seemingly arbitrarily, deciding that one part remains and the other part is retired.
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As far as I am aware, the book of Proverbs was not a part of the Law of Moses.

It's wisdom, therefore, cannot have been done away with or 'retired'.

Here is some wisdom from that book, which is eternal:

Pr 10:13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.

Pr 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Pr 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Pr 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Pr 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Pr 26:3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool’s back.

Pr 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

I understand that to mean that such people as the man who burnt that old lady, and this incredible 5-year old who assaulted the teacher should both be severely beaten with a rod.
http://www.kcentv.com/story/15905952...garten-student

The man should then be executed, and the child returned to his classroom to see if any improvement has taken place.

Then more severe measures are to be implemented if no improvement occurs.

It is because such punishments are not meted out that all these things are happening.

That child is going into some 'special measures' school, which is going to cost a fortune, money which is therefore lost to the decent, hardworking children who deserve it, rather than the potential dregs of the earth.

The parents should also be forced to pay a large chunk of the bill for maintaining the child in the special measures school.

The parents should also be taken to court and compelled to pay compensation to the teacher who has been injured.

As far as a Christian household is concerned, I draw your attention to the following passage which is largely misunderstood in a namby-pamby way:

Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture <3809> and admonition of the Lord.

Here are some other places where that same word is used, which illustrate its meaning perfectly:

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening <3809> of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening <3809>, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement <3809>, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening <3809> for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

In other words, a good beating when necessary will work wonders. Just as Proverbs said.

The whole nation would benefit if such measures were implemented nationally.

Reading, writing and 'rithmetic
All lost for want of a hickory stick

comes to mind.
 
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Asyncritus said:
As far as I am aware, the book of Proverbs was not a part of the Law of Moses.
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You are correct - it is not part of the Law of Moses.

Asyncritus said:
It's wisdom, therefore, cannot have been done away with or 'retired'.
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This way of framing things is misleading. Paul writes what he writes - the Law of Moses has been abolished. But that does not mean that its now OK to commit murder, commit adultery, etc. etc. The difference is this: we now have the Holy Spirit as our moral guide. But Paul writes what he writes - the Law of Moses (and this includes the 10 commandments) has been "retired":

For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, <SUP id=en-NASB-29245 class=versenum>15</SUP> by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is <SUP class=xref value='(AU)'>(A</SUP>the Law of commandments contained in ordinances,

So when people like me accept what Paul says, we are, obviously, in no way saying that its ok to commit murder, adultery, etc.
 
Drew said:
This statement needs to be rebuked.

This is a gross misrepresentation of the gospel position on dealing with enemies. While there is perhaps some legitimate debate about how to deal with the issue of defending oneself and others, this notion that we should "set the guy on fire" is a deep insult to the gospel and needs to be identified as such.

You are seeking blood revenge, pure and simple. And this is clearly the very antithesis of the gospel message.
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well then how long should his punishment be?

would and should he be set free if he just said sorry?

drew life in solitary? (where he would go most likely) as most inmates when the learn of that will act with intent to avenge her and most brutaly.

i would rather die if i died that. i know what solitary is. no sunlight, no time out but to eat and shower most of the time. that is what the prison guards tell me and the also the mps at leavonworth


part of repentence is righting that which is wrong. im sorry there must be consquences.

im pro death penalty but i dont think the goverments job is to save souls, sorry, its not.
romans clearly says that.

im sure you wouldnt want a pedophile back on the streets afters some sinners prayer said
 
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