Know the Lord?

[agua.]

:D

 

[ezrider]

Can you show me where this scripture says " Do not give heed to endless debates about doctrines" Ezirider ?

It's not written in the scripture, it is written on my heart. Do you understand the difference between living by the letter of the word and living by the spirit of the message?

 

[agua.]

It's not written in the scripture, it is written on my heart. Do you understand the difference between living by the letter of the word and living by the spirit of the message?

Yeah I understand living by the spirit of the word and it never disagrees with what is written. Jesus expanded the written word to include the deeper spiritual requirement.

Ezirider you quoted 1Tim 1: 4

1Ti 1:4 KJV Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Yet you said "Do not give heed to fables and endless genealogies, or endless debates about doctrines," which isn't said in the scripture.

Scripture says we should be nourished with good doctrine as per 1Tim 4:6. Are you saying your heart says scripture is wrong ?

 

[Eugene]

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son . . .
Col 1:25 Whereof I (Paul) am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

 

[ezrider]

Yeah I understand living by the spirit of the word and it never disagrees with what is written. Jesus expanded the written word to include the deeper spiritual requirement.

Ezirider you quoted 1Tim 1: 4

1Ti 1:4 KJV Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Yet you said "Do not give heed to fables and endless genealogies, or endless debates about doctrines," which isn't said in the scripture.

Scripture says we should be nourished with good doctrine as per 1Tim 4:6. Are you saying your heart says scripture is wrong ?

I do not know if you are being purposely obtuse or what your deal may be @auga., but you keep implying that what I have said somehow make the scripture wrong or irrelevant, and I have never said such a thing. Your implications are bordering on false allegations that I do not appreciate. By me adding in the comment that we should not heed to endless debates about doctrines that lead to confusion and strife, and telling you that it is written on my heart and is not literally printed in the bible, does not change the meaning of what is written in 1 Timothy one bit. And yet it appears that you fret over the fact that what I said as you stated yourself "which isn't in the scripture." Please take the time to go back and thoughtfully consider what I have written in the first post on this thread, because you are becoming the living example of the model of what I was referring to.

This effect is not uncommon within Christianity, the Church, or on this community board as well. There is a tendency to turn an ear from what has been shared in Faith because it does not come in the form of a chapter and a verse. Instead of opening arms and embracing a brother in the faith, we measure their beliefs so that we might find fault with them, that we might turn the topic back to a point in the scripture that we might contend with so we can feel in control, and in doing so we discount their faith.

Are you trying to discount my faith? I shared with you by faith what has been written on my heart, and you wanted to know how I saw the bible as an authority. I shared with you by faith that the scripture to not heed fables and endless genealogies was my inspiration in concluding for myself that it is not edifying to engage in endless debates over doctrines, yet you took exception to that comment because its not written in the bible. And yet you have not stated what is incorrect about that comment, or how it somehow makes the scripture any less relevant or incorrect. What is it about my desire to not engage in endless debates over doctrines that you take exception to? What do you find for yourself when we engage in endless debates over the doctrines of law from the scripture? Do you find those conversations to be edifying to your Spiritual walk by Faith, or do those conversations typically lead to confusion, disagreements and strife?

You say you understand living by the spirit of the word, yet you reveal yourself to be bound to the letter of the word or you would not have taken exception to what I wrote because it is not found in the bible: Yet the scripture tells us that the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. So how would I use the scripture as sound doctrine, for reproof or correction, or for instructions in righteousness? Then consider the following scriptures:

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter

1 Corinthians 2:9-16 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

We are all unique individuals in our walk with Christ. We are each alone within our own conscience, and within our own heart where it comes to our bond with the Lord. We each may have a different purpose according to the will of God. We are all at different places in our understanding and the measure of our Faith varies from one to another. Some are young in faith, and need the scripture to teach them and help them understand. But the scriptures are our schoolmaster that was to lead us to Christ. And when the Spirit of Christ is come, and when Faith has come we are no longer under a schoolmaster, but under Faith by Grace led of the Spirit. You can not know the measure of my faith and I can not know the measure of your faith, nor can we know the measure of the faith of anyone else for that matter: We must trust in the Lord.

By your responses agua. it is apparent to me that your are seeking to defend the authenticity of the scriptures, and so you testify of and stand a witness for the Bible. But how does one testify and stand witness of the Lord? How does one stand a witness to and testify of their walk by Faith in the Kingdom of Heaven? We will never know the measure of our faith until we thrust in the Lord to walk therein, and we will never know the measure of our own Faith until we can begin expressing the Faith that is within us.

James 4:11-12 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

 

[agua.]

Ezi on Ezirider calm down mate. My exception with what you wrote was because you quoted a scripture and then gave your own position using part of the scripture and adding an extra caveat.

Ezirider you quoted 1Tim 1: 4

1Ti 1:4 KJV Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Yet you said "Do not give heed to fables and endless genealogies, or endless debates about doctrines," which isn't said in the scripture.

Scripture says we should be nourished with good doctrine as per 1Tim 4:6. Are you saying your heart says scripture is wrong ?

You're correct that each of our walks with Christ is individual Ezirider and Yahweh works in our hearts accordingly. Remember also that only the spiritual man can understand the deeper things of God which may also be contained in scripture. Some scripture is difficult to understand yet the Spirit can reveal it's true meaning to us.

Here is something you need to be a bit worried about Ezirider

We are all unique individuals in our walk with Christ. We are each alone within our own conscience, and within our own heart where it comes to our bond with the Lord. We each may have a different purpose according to the will of God. We are all at different places in our understanding and the measure of our Faith varies from one to another. Some are young in faith, and need the scripture to teach them and help them understand. But the scriptures are our schoolmaster that was to lead us to Christ. And when the Spirit of Christ is come, and when Faith has come we are no longer under a schoolmaster, but under Faith by Grace led of the Spirit. You can not know the measure of my faith and I can not know the measure of your faith, nor can we know the measure of the faith of anyone else for that matter: We must trust in the Lord.

Scripture is our revelation from Yahweh not our schoolmaster mate. The schoolmaster was the law/Torah. I'm not measuring your faith mate that's up to Yahweh but I can discern your incorrect presentation of the purpose of scripture considering the witness of those who penned it and the intention of the Author. This implication that the Bible is only a set of laws that we are no longer under is false and very misguided.

By your responses agua. it is apparent to me that your are seeking to defend the authenticity of the scriptures, and so you testify of and stand a witness for the Bible. But how does one testify and stand witness of the Lord? How does one stand a witness to and testify of their walk by Faith in the Kingdom of Heaven? We will never know the measure of our faith until we thrust in the Lord to walk therein, and we will never know the measure of our own Faith until we can begin expressing the Faith that is within us.

Have you studied the scriptures Ezirider and understand them well ? You see they contain the very Words of God which help us in our walk of righteousness. If our walk is contrary to the scriptures we need to correct it. In saying that you're right that many things not found in the Bible will be part of our walk and the Holy Spirit is constantly guiding us, sometimes dragging us :D, into God's ways so that we can do the good works He has set for us.

Can you tell me how you express the faith in you Brother ?

 

[ezrider]

Scripture is our revelation from Yahweh not our schoolmaster mate. The schoolmaster was the law/Torah. I'm not measuring your faith mate that's up to Yahweh but I can discern your incorrect presentation of the purpose of scripture considering the witness of those who penned it and the intention of the Author. This implication that the Bible is only a set of laws that we are no longer under is false and very misguided.

You try and draw a distinction between the Scripture and the Law in your defense of the letter, but when you tend to treat them in the same manner, then I make no distinction. You either live by the letter of the word or by the Spirit of the message; And if by Spirit, then we are no longer under a school master, but under the Lord himself. The only thing I find to be misguided is your assumptions about me mate.

 

[ezrider]

There is a scripture that has long been on my mind. It is a familiar passage to many: for they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. In it we are told that all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God.

Micah 4:4-6
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree;
and none shall make them afraid:
for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.
For all people will walk every one in the name of his god,
and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever.

The scripture says that the Word of God is a sharp two edged sword. When we engage in a debate over scriptures, do you wield the words of the Bible as if it is a sword that you might slay your brother? Or have you laid down your sword, that you might beat it into the plowshare you would use to till the soil in the garden of God and to sow the seed of Faith of your walk in the Kingdom of God?

When I read that every man shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree, I think to myself in simple terms, that I should mind my own business and concentrate on my own walk and instruction from the Lord. I think it is in the book of Romans where Paul said who are you to judge another man’s servant.

When I started writing down my thoughts for this topic, I honestly did not know where it was leading me. But as I continued to think on it for a couple of days, a word kept coming to my mind: Know you the Lord? So I had to go look it up. And though I have read it many times before, it was as if reading it for the first time.

Hebrews 8:10-12
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

This is the new covenant confirmed in the blood Christ that we actively live in. The people of the Lord shall NOT teach every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord.

Jeremiah 31:27-28
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah
with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them,
to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down,
and to destroy, and to afflict;
so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 31:33-34
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the Lord: for they shall all know me,
from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord:
for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

If we are indeed under the new covenant, and by the word of God that we shall no more teach every man his neighbor, saying, know the Lord, then why is it we spend so much time trying to convince others their need to know the Lord? Or that we judge for ourselves whether we think others truly know the Lord? You shall not teach them, and none shall make them afraid, yet the Church tries to win souls to Christ through fear of the punishment for sin.

Jesus said: It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God. Do the words in the Bible account for every word from the mouth of God? The Lord has invited you to come unto his feast and to dine with him. He has given us to eat the bread of life and the fruit of the tree of Life; He has given us of His Spirit. He has given to us so much more than a 2000 year old biscuit to sustain us. The promises are for the here and now, not a future time; but it is up to us the walk therein by Faith.

Does any one have any comments on the scriptures that I have referenced in this post? I would like to hear your thoughts on Micah 4:4-6 and Jeremiah 31:33-34 and what it means to not teach your brother or your neighbor saying know the Lord.

 

[Free]

Does any one have any comments on the scriptures that I have referenced in this post? I would like to hear your thoughts on Micah 4:4-6 and Jeremiah 31:33-34 and what it means to not teach your brother or your neighbor saying know the Lord.

They do not seem to be talking about any period of time up to now. They are speaking of a future time.

When I read that every man shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree, I think to myself in simple terms, that I should mind my own business and concentrate on my own walk and instruction from the Lord.

But that is not what that means. To "sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree" simply refers to peace and security. Notice that it is in between "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore" (clearly this hasn't happened at any time in history) and "no one shall make them afraid." (ESV)

If we are indeed under the new covenant, and by the word of God that we shall no more teach every man his neighbor, saying, know the Lord, then why is it we spend so much time trying to convince others their need to know the Lord? Or that we judge for ourselves whether we think others truly know the Lord?

If you want to continue to try and state this as a truth of Scripture, you'll have to throw out every book of the NT, other than the gospels.

You shall not teach them, and none shall make them afraid, yet the Church tries to win souls to Christ through fear of the punishment for sin.

Some try that way and many through the love of God.

Notice what the passage in Jeremiah says:

"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the Lord: for they shall all know me,
from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord:"

Clearly, all do not know God, so we cannot be in the time that Jeremiah is prophesying about.

 

[Free]

I do not know if you are being purposely obtuse or what your deal may be @auga., but you keep implying that what I have said somehow make the scripture wrong or irrelevant, and I have never said such a thing. Your implications are bordering on false allegations that I do not appreciate. By me adding in the comment that we should not heed to endless debates about doctrines that lead to confusion and strife, and telling you that it is written on my heart and is not literally printed in the bible, does not change the meaning of what is written in 1 Timothy one bit. And yet it appears that you fret over the fact that what I said as you stated yourself "which isn't in the scripture." Please take the time to go back and thoughtfully consider what I have written in the first post on this thread, because you are becoming the living example of the model of what I was referring to.

You added words to Scripture to support a point which not only is not made in Scripture, it goes against Scripture. That is a very dangerous way of doing things.

Are you trying to discount my faith? I shared with you by faith what has been written on my heart, and you wanted to know how I saw the bible as an authority. I shared with you by faith that the scripture to not heed fables and endless genealogies was my inspiration in concluding for myself that it is not edifying to engage in endless debates over doctrines, yet you took exception to that comment because its not written in the bible. And yet you have not stated what is incorrect about that comment, or how it somehow makes the scripture any less relevant or incorrect. What is it about my desire to not engage in endless debates over doctrines that you take exception to? What do you find for yourself when we engage in endless debates over the doctrines of law from the scripture? Do you find those conversations to be edifying to your Spiritual walk by Faith, or do those conversations typically lead to confusion, disagreements and strife?

If you want to conclude that for yourself, fine, it is still error, but you shouldn't be posting it to others as though that is what the verse actually says and use it as an excuse to not engage in debate about doctrine, which is itself biblical.

 

[agua.]

You try and draw a distinction between the Scripture and the Law in your defense of the letter, but when you tend to treat them in the same manner, then I make no distinction. You either live by the letter of the word or by the Spirit of the message; And if by Spirit, then we are no longer under a school master, but under the Lord himself. The only thing I find to be misguided is your assumptions about me mate.

The Bible isn't a schoolmaster it's a guide and a revelation of Yahweh for us. Postcards from God I like to think.

What are my assumptions about you ? I've stated pretty clearly my objections to your posts.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

I know just what you mean. I firmly believe I had the holy spirit in me for years long before I read the bible. For me the turning point was quiting caffeine. I naturally lost interest in the world...porn..and lusting in general. Turns out I found out I was babtized as a baby. Maybe then the holy spirit would not dwell in me for as long as I consumed it? I dunno.......But I didnt know WHAT this strange force was fatherly guiding me until I read the entire bible. Then I understood it was the third member of the trinity. Hey it sounds crazy....but look at Samson, besides cutting his hair one of his stipulations was he couldnt drink wine or strong drink. Maybe strong drink is coffee? I read a book on google that gave a convincing argument for it.

 

[Edward]

I agree brother. Reading the Word is more important to us than most realize. there's power and life in those Words of our Lord. No man can teach us like the Word can. No Christian has all of the answers. The Lord gives each member of the Body a measure. Then unified and together as the body we have it all. But reading the bible for ourselves is the key (and prayer!) but listening to sermons and hearing others interpretations is not enough. Even very respected Pastors do not have all of it right. This doesn't mean that one shouldn't listen to them, it just means that we are to do our own homework and let the Holy Spirit reveal to us what we need to know.

 

[ezrider]

They do not seem to be talking about any period of time up to now. They are speaking of a future time.


But that is not what that means. To "sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree" simply refers to peace and security. Notice that it is in between "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore" (clearly this hasn't happened at any time in history) and "no one shall make them afraid." (ESV)

I can understand how easy it is and how little faith is required to look at the phrase "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore" and then look into the world and say with assurance that this has not happened yet anytime in history, and therefore must be speaking of a future time. But to say that Jer 31:33-34 and Micah 4:4-6 are speaking of a future time is to deny the work of Christ and the cross, and a rejection of the new covenant sealed in His blood.

But many people deceive themselves because they only see the scriptures through the flesh, and therefore look for a time when they can see physical fleshly world peace. But these scriptures are not talking about peace between the kingdoms of men: but a peace between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of man.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Have you not read and understood the gospel message, the gospel of the Kingdom? The very words of Jesus printed in the red letters of your Bible have given you instructions on how to live as child of God in the Kingdom of Heaven. It is up to you to walk therein by FAITH, not by sight. Did not Jesus say that if a man strike you on one cheek, turn unto him the other? Did not he say blessed be the peacemakers, for theirs is the Kingdom of God? Is it not written that he who shall live by the sword, shall die by the sword? These are the commandments of God that we should follow: that we should love one another. That we are not to be judgmental of one another, but we are to forgive one another. This is the Kingdom of Heaven, it is a Kingdom of Spirit, and it does not lift up a sword against the kingdoms men. King David was told that He could not build the Lord His temple because he was a man of war, but that his seed after him shall build the temple of the LORD during a time of peace. Only when you stop living by what you only see in this world can you begin to perceive the Kingdom that is revealed through FAITH. The Spirit of Christ has given us that peace, that by Faith through Grace we should walk in the newness of the Spirit, and not after the flesh. Read Romans 8.
By the Spirit of Christ, our spirit has been quieted so that we stop waring against our own flesh, that we may be formed into the image of Christ, and that in peace the Son of David should build the temple of the Lord. The temple which He is building is in our hearts where the Spirit of God dwells, in the Kingdom of God.

So when the Lord says that this is the covenant that I shall make with them: that I will write my law in their hearts, and I will be their God. That they shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord. I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more. Then why do you not believe what he says? The Kingdom of God is a kingdom of peace, and it is a kingdom of Spirit.

John 18:36-37 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[ezrider]

If a blind man were to approach you beside a grand garden within a park, and he were to ask you saying: I have been coming to this park all these many years. I could tell you the seasons by the scent of the flowers, the sounds of the crickets and the feel of the grass, but I have been blind since my youth, and I do wish to know what my blessed garden looks like. Could you please describe for me what you see so I can paint a picture in my minds eye?

Would you begin describing in depth and great detail what it was you were seeing, describing the variations of color so that the man might perceive, or how the light shimmers on the surface of the pond, and when the wind blows the ripples in the water. Would you describe for the blind man what it was you were seeing, or would you go reach for a book by some renown poet and then read to the blind man what the poet saw? The blind man might tell you that he already knows the words to that poem, but I did not ask you for that; I wanted to know what it was that you saw.

So when the scripture tells you to give an answer for the hope that lies within you (1 Peter 3:15), why do you then reach for the Bible to give your account? If you are serving up the scripture as your response for the hope within you, then you are not answering the blind man. Instead of sharing the testimony of your faith and your walk in the Kingdom of God, you hold up the Bible as if it were your own testimony, but you only offer as a testimony to the Lord the written words of God, and therefor you ask God to testify of himself.

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Rev 19:9-10 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[agua.]

Joh 5:39-40 KJV Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (40) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Act 8:29-35 KJV Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. (30) And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? (31) And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. (32) The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: (33) In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. (34) And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? (35) Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

 

[ironmonk]

Have you ever noticed that when the Jehovah’s Witnesses appear on your doorstep, they always have a Bible and a verse to share with you? It is an interesting thing to observe, but when I inform them that I already believe in the Lord, and that by Faith I am with him in his kingdom, they immediately search for another Bible verse that they may try and convince me to believe in the Lord. If I reciprocate and try to share with them my walk in faith spoken from the depths of my heart, I find they are not interested in the sharing of faith, only the verses written on a page. When they become frustrated trying to convince me of something that I already believe in, they hand me a couple of magazines and then they are on their way.

This effect is not uncommon within Christianity, the Church, or on this community board as well. There is a tendency to turn an ear from what has been shared in Faith because it does not come in the form of a chapter and a verse. Instead of opening arms and embracing a brother in the faith, we measure their beliefs so that we might find fault with them, that we might turn the topic back to a point in the scripture that we might contend with so we can feel in control, and in doing so we discount their faith.

But what I often wonder about, is why we find it necessary to hold up the Bible and quote a few scriptures as the expression of our faith? Now before anyone thinks that I am denigrating their Bible, I am not. What I wonder is why when the Church and the words from the Bible tell me that I can have a living relationship with God, and that God himself would teach me by his Holy Spirit, that I should limit the expression of my Faith to only the words in the Bible. In the book of John, it is written that if all the things that Jesus did were written down, the world itself could not contain all the books thereof (John 21:25). Yet we try and limit his words to those written in one book. When someone tries to quote a scripture, it does not show their understanding, it shows they can read. When you quote the scripture in lieu of your own words, are you testifying of the Bible or are you testifying of your faith in the Bible? When do you testify of the Lord?

If you truly believe that you serve and worship a living God, is he so limited that he can only speak to you from the Bible? If you believe the Spirit of God dwells in your heart, and that he has written his laws into our hearts and into our minds, then shouldn’t the expression of our living Faith also be expressed from our hearts? When I read the Gospels, I do not see Jesus primarily quoting old testament scripture that we may know them. But quite the contrary, he said had you believed Moses, you would have believed me. Jesus spoke in parables, and he used allegories to teach about the Kingdom of God, using examples of things in the natural world that we might understand the Spiritual: Consider the lilies of the field; Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap…

Jesus said when they deliver you up, take no thought what you shall speak, for it shall be given you in the same hour. If you rely on quoting scripture to express your beliefs, then is the Word really in you? What is it that you aspire to in your walk of faith, to testify of the Bible, or to know the Spirit of God when he speaks through you? The Gospels have made known to you the manner in which Jesus proclaimed the Gospel of the Kingdom. How should you think the Gospel of the Kingdom might be proclaimed in these last days, by chapter and verse? Or as the Spirit gives utterance?

When you find yourself quoting the scripture, do you do so that you might tear down or do you do so that you might build up? Do we use the scriptures so we can measure the beliefs of another so we might judge for ourselves whether they know the Lord?

I know what your trying to say, you can't grow in faith if you hold a fundamental view of the bible. Like those JW you fear you might be heading down that path and that you will end up like them. The bible says to meditate on the law and thats so you can dig up deep wisdom, wisdom thats based on the core beliefs of the bible but at the same time unique to you and to other christians.

 

[Edward]

If a blind man were to approach you beside a grand garden within a park, and he were to ask you saying: I have been coming to this park all these many years. I could tell you the seasons by the scent of the flowers, the sounds of the crickets and the feel of the grass, but I have been blind since my youth, and I do wish to know what my blessed garden looks like. Could you please describe for me what you see so I can paint a picture in my minds eye?

Would you begin describing in depth and great detail what it was you were seeing, describing the variations of color so that the man might perceive, or how the light shimmers on the surface of the pond, and when the wind blows the ripples in the water. Would you describe for the blind man what it was you were seeing, or would you go reach for a book by some renown poet and then read to the blind man what the poet saw? The blind man might tell you that he already knows the words to that poem, but I did not ask you for that; I wanted to know what it was that you saw.

So when the scripture tells you to give an answer for the hope that lies within you (1 Peter 3:15), why do you then reach for the Bible to give your account? If you are serving up the scripture as your response for the hope within you, then you are not answering the blind man. Instead of sharing the testimony of your faith and your walk in the Kingdom of God, you hold up the Bible as if it were your own testimony, but you only offer as a testimony to the Lord the written words of God, and therefor you ask God to testify of himself.

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Rev 19:9-10 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I see exactly what you are saying brother and I agree completely. While we are to give the tesimony of Jesus and His words, to give account for our personal faith would indeed be our personal testimony. It says to do this in scripture elsewhere, it escapes me at the moment where, I'll see if I can find it.

The giving of our personal testimony is powerful, it is...experience. The man with an experience from God is never at the mercy of the theologian. Doctrine is good, it is the Word of God, but standing alone, what is it? Truths to be learned. When one has the Word and experience...therein is life. Good post brother.

 

[Edward]

I know what your trying to say, you can't grow in faith if you hold a fundamental view of the bible. Like those JW you fear you might be heading down that path and that you will end up like them. The bible says to meditate on the law and thats so you can dig up deep wisdom, wisdom thats based on the core beliefs of the bible but at the same time unique to you and to other christians.

I like this post too, and agree. I think that the only way to move past a fundamental view of the bible is to...receive it into your heart. Not to read it and try to pick it apart with mans feeble reasoning, but to accept it and believe it...then begin living it. When we do this, the Holy Spirit comes and enters us and begins leading us. Then we begin to have experiences from God, and move past fundamentalism into life.

To receive Gods Word into your heart, we indeed must meditate upon his Word day and night. This doesn't mean to merely think about it and consider it and agree with it (for this is mere assent), but to actually live it, and to utter it, to have it on your lips brother. Yes, I looked it up. Check this out:

Meditate H7878
שׂיח
śı̂yach
see'-akh
A primitive root; to ponder, that is, (by implication) converse (with oneself, and hence aloud) or (transitively) utter: - commune, complain, declare, meditate, muse, pray, speak, talk (with)./

Psalm 119:23
Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.

 

[ironmonk]

I like this post too, and agree. I think that the only way to move past a fundamental view of the bible is to...receive it into your heart. Not to read it and try to pick it apart with mans feeble reasoning, but to accept it and believe it...then begin living it. When we do this, the Holy Spirit comes and enters us and begins leading us. Then we begin to have experiences from God, and move past fundamentalism into life.

To receive Gods Word into your heart, we indeed must meditate upon his Word day and night. This doesn't mean to merely think about it and consider it and agree with it (for this is mere assent), but to actually live it, and to utter it, to have it on your lips brother. Yes, I looked it up. Check this out:

Meditate H7878
שׂיח
śı̂yach
see'-akh
A primitive root; to ponder, that is, (by implication) converse (with oneself, and hence aloud) or (transitively) utter: - commune, complain, declare, meditate, muse, pray, speak, talk (with)./

Psalm 119:23
Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.

That's very strange, when I was thinking of what to say I talked it out in my head first and I kept saying to myself "after you say meditate on the law say also that we ponder" But I left it out.