Kundalini Warning To The Church Of Jesus Christ....True or False.

[Jesse]

I related, here, about a small child at our church having her thumb cut off by a door and reattached. Would you believe that several people claimed "no miracle" when she had full function and feeling, no pain, and no scar, whatsoever. Someone didn't pick up her thumb off the floor, and jamb it back on, so it was just another normal day.

I have never met anyone that doesn't believe God still performs miracles. If we open our eyes, we can see it happening all around us.

Yet, this is still not the same as some of what goes on in some churches, imo.

 

[Jesse]

This is from the video Willie posted of ABC's interview with John Wimber in post #15. He is credited with the founding of the Vineyard Church Movement:

John Wimber: Some people's experiences ought, in my opinion, be done in private, but evidently, God, doesn't do it that way.
We've tried to accomodate up here. We've carried people out of the room. We've taken them into other places. We've had teams assigned to do that. But the Lord just keeps inundating us with so many. We can't keep up.

............................​

Peter Jennings: So you do think that there are instances in the church where behavior in the church is too extreme?

John Wimber: Yes. Remember, not everyone who walks into our building's real healthy. Peter, some people have walked through some pretty tough things in life. They've been beaten, they've been abused, they've been sexually molested, and they've gone through long difficult histories with addiction. And so the Spirit of God touches them and they do things that you and I wouldn't probably do, and we don't want to do indoors or encourage.
​

Ok, I will try again, not sure my question was answered.

When Jesus healed people, these kinds of manifestations did not happen, he just touched them and because of their faith they were healed. People are healed in the same way today. There was no need for falling over, convulsion like behavior, rolling around on the floor, etc. It just did not happen. \

In fact, Paul told Timothy how the church was to be ran, organized. Even if someone had a word in tongues, they were to keep silent unless there was an interpreter present. If there wasn't one, they should keep quiet. It just seems with these instructions, God wanted order in church meetings. If it were to be out of control, then it's not ok with Him. It would be unlike God to say one thing and allow another.

So why would God change the way He expects church meetings to run?

Why the change in how Jesus healed with the need to heal in such a way that causes convulsions, shakings, and falling to the floor?

Thanks.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have never met anyone that doesn't believe God still performs miracles.

This is an observation that I have made, too. I thought, why are we fighting each other about this? All churches pray for their sick.

Yet, this is still not the same as some of what goes on in some churches, imo.

After wondering about this, and wondering about it some more, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the problem is pride and greed. People take the legitimate things of God and make merchandise of them, not only to make lots of money, but to stroke their egos. Having been associated with the Word of Faith movement you may be surprised that I think PRIDE is actually the problem. Getting rich is the added benefit. In my experience it seems the desire to be known as one who has great spiritual power and experience and access to God fuels the abuses we see in the 'charismatic' churches. What happened inn Acts 8 with Simon the sorcerer is what seems to be happening in the modern 'charismatic' movement:

9 Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;10 and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God." 11 And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized,men and women alike. 13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.

18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21"You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity." 24 But Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me." (Acts 8:9-13,18-24 NASB)

People go into ministry with this dangerous mix of an unhealthy, even ungodly, interest in the supernatural, the love of money, and the pride of life. The result is what we see in the ministries that Chopper's video points out. (It should be noted that in the third video of that set of videos the author is careful to note that the church should not discard the supernatural gifts of Christianity.)

When someone like Simon with unhealthy interests and experiences in the supernatural, the love of money, and the pride of life, gets into ministry are we to expect that the occult is not going to somehow show up in what they do? Peter stopped Simon dead in his tracks. Who's doing that today?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ok, I will try again, not sure my question was answered.

When Jesus healed people, these kinds of manifestations did not happen, he just touched them and because of their faith they were healed. People are healed in the same way today. There was no need for falling over, convulsion like behavior, rolling around on the floor, etc. It just did not happen. \

I showed how untrue that is.

"25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet, and come out of him!" 26 Throwing him into convulsions, the unclean spirit cried out with a loud voice and came out of him. " (Mark 1:25-26 NASB)

In Willie's video (post #15) at around 11:24, IMO, you are seeing an exorcism. It's not very Hollywood and so we don't recognize it as such. Also, among believers it's not understood that a deep seated anger because of past abuse or loss, for example, can be a demonic stronghold in a person--even a believer.

I would suggest this is by far the most common forms of demonic oppression that we see in believers--believers who can't function in the fruit and joy of the Spirit because they are being tightly held by demonic powers in the form of anger, rage, jealousy, envy, and hatred. When you see and understand the power these kinds of things have over people--even believers--you can begin to understand the dramatic struggle that occurs when they are pulled out of a person by the power of God in prayer and the laying on of hands.

In fact, Paul told Timothy how the church was to be ran, organized. Even if someone had a word in tongues, they were to keep silent unless there was an interpreter present. If there wasn't one, they should keep quiet. It just seems with these instructions, God wanted order in church meetings. If it were to be out of control, then it's not ok with Him. It would be unlike God to say one thing and allow another.

Do you consider Jesus' exorcism 'out of order' according to what you have just said here?

So why would God change the way He expects church meetings to run?

I think the problem is we don't understand and believe what can happen in a church meeting and it still not violate Paul's 'out of order' guidelines. It's as if we'd never read the Bible to know what can happen in a legitimate Spirit-filled church service. John Wimber said this at the end of Willie's video:

"The next Sunday I came back to church and there were a group of people, and they were waiting out in front. They were very...they were incensed. I could see how angry they were, God bless 'em. And they said, 'just how far is this going to go?' And I remember I had my Bible in my hand, and I said it will go no further than this book. And they took comfort from that. I thought, haven't they read this book?"​

Why the change in how Jesus healed with the need to heal in such a way that causes convulsions, shakings, and falling to the floor?

Perhaps now you can see that what has changed is that the church resists the dramatic ministry of Jesus.

 

[Karl]

Karl, you're scaring me, lol.
This is what Chopper wanted from me in post #148:

​

Everything I posted is 1) Biblical, and 2) dramatic, and 3) the Spirit at work in a person.



I see. Since what happened was like a rushing wind and like tongues of fire that what happened was not dramatic. I'm pretty sure that when something happens like a rushing mighty wind, and something like fire appears over people's head that qualifies as dramatic.



Besides the fact that Acts 2 did happen in a public place, why are you adding 'public' to the scriptural evidence Chopper asked me to produce?

Jethro, nice try at playing the pathos card to gain support, and it looks like it worked, ...in actuality I'm worried for you and you are the one that needs to be scared, for adding to the Scripture,

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:18

Like I already said,

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

The Holy Spirit was not yet given, I don't think it could be more clearer than that, ...you are adding to Scripture, ...you are the one that needs to be scared.

Man you can't see it, maybe you need to study what a simile is, it was not something you can see, ...can you see the wind, ...I think Jesus made an analogy to that didn't He,

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:8

Yes the Holy Spirit was working in the believers lives in the upper room, but it was not what we would call dramatic, it was a personal experience of the empowering of the gift He had given them.

In the upper room, second floor, I don't think the multitude of men gathered in Jerusalem were giants that could see what was going on in there, yes the house was in public view, but what went on inside was not.

I am anti charsimania, but not anti charismatic, I have seen and/or been used by the Lord to preform all of the so called sign gifts, each and ever time, with the exception of tongues or healing it has been private, so private that like the servants that poured the water into the water pot were the only ones that knew God was working, ...my Bible teaches God is a God of order, what is depicted in the video no rational thinking man, believer or unbeliever, can/would call order.

Again, ...give us some verses of the Holy Spirit working in the manner depicted in the video in someone that will stand up to Scriptural scrutiny.

I suggest you prove you are God's kids by keeping the ToS and stop attacking the poster and give Biblical responses, ...remember, this is a Christian site and the world watching knows who are His by the love we exhibit towards one another. Jesus Christ 33A.D.

 

[Jesse]

I showed how untrue that is.

"25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet, and come out of him!" 26 Throwing him into convulsions, the unclean spirit cried out with a loud voice and came out of him. " (Mark 1:25-26 NASB)

In Willie's video (post #15) at around 11:24, IMO, you are seeing an exorcism. It's not very Hollywood and so we don't recognize it as such. Also, among believers it's not understood that a deep seated anger because of past abuse or loss, for example, can be a demonic stronghold in a person--even a believer.

I would suggest this is by far the most common forms of demonic oppression that we see in believers--believers who can't function in the fruit and joy of the Spirit because they are being tightly held by demonic powers in the form of anger, rage, jealousy, envy, and hatred. When you see and understand the power these kinds of things have over people you can begin to understand the dramatic struggle that occurs when they are pulled out of a person by the power of God in prayer and the laying on of hands.



Do you consider Jesus' exorcism 'out of order' according to what you have just said here?

No, Jesus' exorcism was not out of order, it also did not happen during a church meeting, and it only happened to 1 person. When there is a church meeting with more than 1 person at a time, convulsing, rolling on the ground - that is out of order and looks nothing like how Jesus performed one. The people who I know who do exorcisms, and yes, I do know of them, 2 pastors, they tell me that a person needs to be prepared and trained by God, that it would be unwise for just anyone to exorcise a demon. They also take the person out of the church service and do this privately, not in the midst of the church meeting, as satan likes to disrupt that which is of God. The meeting continues, the person who needs attending to is taken out of the assembly and dealt with that way. It's all very orderly.

I think the problem is we don't understand and believe what can happen in a church meeting and it still not violate Paul's 'out of order' guidelines, as if we'd never read the Bible to know. John Wimber said this at the end of Willie's video:

The next Sunday I came back to church and there were a group of people, and they were waiting out in front. They were very...they were incensed. I could see how angry they were, God bless 'em. And they said, 'just how far is this going to go?' And I remember I had my Bible in my hand, and I said it will go no further than this book. And they took comfort from that. I thought, haven't they read this book?
​

Perhaps now you can see that what has changed is that the church resists the dramatic ministry of Jesus.

I think what Paul instructed to Timothy about an assembly was intended for God's purpose, that those who lead (pastors, church leaders) would have their assembly orderly, there is a time and a place for everything and during an assembly is not a time nor place to exorcise a demon, that is allowing the demon to take center stage. The instructions for assembly are maintained as orderly for the glory of God - not demons.

<btw, I am not speaking of dancing and singing to worship the Lord, as David did, what is wrong with this? Nothing, God is center stage>

 

[Karl]

There is a common and well know ploy in the world, and that is, create a crisis and supply the solution, that is what is being used in this thread,

The crisis introduced, ...a certain denomination is being spoken against, vilified,

The solution, ...ridicule those that speak the Truth of the Word.

Please notice the supposedly denounced denomination is the one who introduced the crisis, ...and supplying the solution.

We are not children of darkness that we would be unawares of the schemes of the devil.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jethro, nice try at playing the pathos card to gain support, and it looks like it worked, ...in actuality I'm worried for you and you are the one that needs to be scared, for adding to the Scripture,

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:18

Like I already said,

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

The Holy Spirit was not yet given, I don't think it could be more clearer than that, ...you are adding to Scripture, ...you are the one that needs to be scared.

Man you can't see it, maybe you need to study what a simile is, it was not something you can see, ...can you see the wind, ...I think Jesus made an analogy to that didn't He,

I am anti charsimania, but not anti charismatic, I have seen and/or been used by the Lord to preform all of the so called sign gifts, each and ever time, with the exception of tongues or healing
Again, ...give us some verses of the Holy Spirit working in the manner depicted in the video in someone that will stand up to Scriptural scrutiny.

Karl, I gave seveal examples in scripture that explains what you see in the video's. I guess you missed my post above somewhere.

The video's are from different churches and places, It's hard to say the people are experiencing the same things. You don't take half informations, and small clips to prove something. My guess is that all the situations are not that same, and even some not right.

I do know Rodney Howard Brown though. Talked to him on the phone even. I know folks that go to his church, good friends with one of them. I know Brother Copeland in that He comes to visit my church, been following him since 1996 (Sort of)

The problem Karl is there is lots of flesh and emotionalizm out there. There is also real. There are fake healings, and real healings.

There are good business, and bad ones. Good google apps, and bad google apps.

The anointing of God is real and tanigble. The anointing is for flesh, to empower the flesh. I can do all things through Christ (The anointed one and his anointing for us)

Most believers carry a tangible anointing on them. Our flesh gets use to it, so we don't notice it, but others do. More than once I have walked into a room and folks claim to see a halo or glow around me. I can't tell, or see a blessed thing. It's there though.

Angels radiate the fear of the Lord. Set an angle in a room with folks and knee's buckle. We see that at Jesus tomb, when my daughter was born and I was looking at her fresh out of the womb, a powerful being stood next to me. My knee's buckled a bit and I felt waves of power coming from this being. Not my first rodeo, I knew it was her angle, and God was kind enough to let me have that peace as a father that nobody is getting through to harm my daughter.

Angels are assigned to all of us though, we just don't normally know they are there.

I was working parking lot at our Copeland Meeting and we had to stand outside and greet folks and keep an eye on things. We all felt the power of God coming through the walls of the church while he preached. People pulled over passing by as it drew them in. Many testimonies from these folks on how they were just driving along and could not but help pull in and go inside. The anointing was so strong, we had trouble with equipment that needed batteries. Drained instantly.

I had just cast a devil out of someone, took them in a back room to speak and another man was there that started screaming at me.... I know you, I know you, I know you.. You can't cast me out, you can't cast me out. Then the guy runs out of the room.

The anointing must have been strong, but I sure did not feel any different. very strange day altogether though.

When pastoring a church, I always tell the folks please don't fall down if I pray for you. Now don't resist God either, but don't fall down for the sake of just falling down. Folks don't need to fall down to be healed.

The Pastor I worked under told me stories of gold dust falling and flower petals when the anointing is strong. What scripture is that? Not one time I was there running service or watching did I see any gold dust.

He showed me picture of angel orbs. I did not have the heart to tell him they are caused by digital camera's bouncing short light off dust particles. He believed it though.

Thats my thing, How does flesh act when the presence of God is strong. We are not designed to even be close to the Lord in this current body.

Rodney has a ministery where the anointing comes to relieve the people with Joy and powerful healing. Under that anointing you just start laughing like a idoit. I don't, but I do feel the anointing, some just submit more than others, or have less control, I don't know.

Paul said despise not prophecy. Why? Because like in Pauls day, and today there are many that are just flesh and not a real thus saith the Lord. Does not mean the real does not show up though.

We need to be aware of the presence of sensationalizm, but learn not to discount the real.

Sorry for the spelling, Tablet with keyboard and no spellchecker.

Blessings.

 

[Karl]

Brother Mike,

I respect you as a fellow brother in Christ and love you with the love of Christ, and because of that I will not lower my standards to criticize you or make fun of what you believe with snide remarks, I too have experienced some of the things you have, ...we serve a wonderful, diverse and awesome God, and I learned long ago to not try and put Him in a box.

My point, and I think you will agree, is to correct the misuse of Scripture to try and verify one's presumptions.

I'm looking forward to meeting you in Heaven and I think it is wise to wait for the Bema Seat of Christ to reveal what was done in the flesh and what was done in the Spirit when everything will be revealed.

Lord bless

 

[Chopper]

Chopper, there is video's from Rodney Howard Brown whom I know, and Kenneth Copeland, then it pans to something else that does not seem Christian. You can take clips of anything and half quote people to make up any case. I can't judge the other clips as I don't know those folks or what they practice.

So to say none of it is not close to scripture is a bit far fetched. We certainly do not want folks taking a bit of what we said and making it into something we never ment. We should steer clear of that type of seed.

Mat 28:8 kjva And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.

What does Fear with Great Joy look like in someone? Would it look like some of the people laughing in the video?

Luk 6:23 kjva Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

What does leaping for Joy look like in someone who just got the revelation of how great their reward is in Heaven? Leaping up and down looks a lot like those folks in the video.

What did David look like half naked running around shouting for joy when the Ark came back? At least the folks in the video did not have parts hanging out.

Col 2:5 kjva For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

What does Joying in the spirit look like. The Greek Word means rejoicing, jumping up and down. Would it look like any of the folks in the video?

Eph 5:18-20 kjva 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Being filled with the Spirit is compared with being drunk with wine. Speaking to yourself? Making melody's in their heart, and walking around giving thanks. Seems like that would look and sound pretty crazy if someone was just doing that at the store.

Just because we don't understand the Power of the Holy Spirit, what it feels like on flesh. and the fact Joy is mentioned in 69 scritpures in the NT, does not make the devil running around giving folks joy and making them act strange.

I have prayed in tongues for a long time, and not a fan of that fall on the ground pentecoastal stuff. I would rather hear teaching, but It just means I go to places where things are more calm is all.

Not everything is God, can be flesh, but I sat and just laughed when used to heal a brother in the Lord. I understand it at least, not sure I am convinced it can be forced or happen when we want.

I understand fully what you are saying and I can't disregard anything you said. I myself have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. I speak and pray in tongues. I have been slain in the Spirit. I have on several occasions been caught up in the Spirit to raise my hands while the preacher is preaching, shout Amen, praise the Lord, preach it! BUT, I have never done what these people on the video are doing. I just feel that it is more emotionalism than anything else. It is nothing I'd be interested in entering into. In my spirit, I'm not convinced that it is of the Holy Spirit of Whom I know very well.

I respect your views because you are acquainted with more of that kind of expression than I am. I can only discern what I have seen in several video's and you are right, they can be manipulated anyway the director wants it to appear....Thanks for your reply old Friend.

 

[Willie T]

I understand fully what you are saying and I can't disregard anything you said. I myself have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. I speak and pray in tongues. I have been slain in the Spirit. I have on several occasions been caught up in the Spirit to raise my hands while the preacher is preaching, shout Amen, praise the Lord, preach it! BUT, I have never done what these people on the video are doing. I just feel that it is more emotionalism than anything else. It is nothing I'd be interested in entering into. In my spirit, I'm not convinced that it is of the Holy Spirit of Whom I know very well.

I respect your views because you are acquainted with more of that kind of expression than I am. I can only discern what I have seen in several video's and you are right, they can be manipulated anyway the director wants it to appear....Thanks for your reply old Friend.

You do realize that people who have not experienced those strange-to-them things you just mentioned that you have done, are just as convinced you are way off base, as you are convinced others who have experienced more of The Holy Spirit than you have, are.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Many seem to have forgotten that nobody is defending Kundalini. The conflict seems to be in to what extent similarities to what happens in a Kundalini meeting can and should be allowed in legitimate moves of God in the church.

 

[Willie T]

It seems things WE do and believe are fine and are of God, but that's as far as we will give permission to God for Him to go.

Aren't a whole bunch of us going to be surprised to see "Appalachian Snake Handlers" in Heaven? (That's OK..... they will be just as shocked to see us there.)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My point, and I think you will agree, is to correct the misuse of Scripture to try and verify one's presumptions.

Karl, honestly, I think you have done the most damage to the scriptures out of anybody here. Not being mean. Not being snide.

I thought about challenging you on those points but I honestly don't think you'll acknowledge the correction and you will get angry and defensive again, and so I decided not to.

Again, not being mean or vindictive. I'm just telling you what I see.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike,

I respect you as a fellow brother in Christ and love you with the love of Christ, and because of that I will not lower my standards to criticize you or make fun of what you believe with snide remarks, I too have experienced some of the things you have, ...we serve a wonderful, diverse and awesome God, and I learned long ago to not try and put Him in a box.

My point, and I think you will agree, is to correct the misuse of Scripture to try and verify one's presumptions.

I'm looking forward to meeting you in Heaven and I think it is wise to wait for the Bema Seat of Christ to reveal what was done in the flesh and what was done in the Spirit when everything will be revealed.

Lord bless

Peter said, we heard God, seen miracles, but........ We have a more sure word of prophecy.

Faith in the word, brings the experience. The experience dose not add or prove the word.

Had this conversation with the wife. In Pentecostals land, everyone hears God, teaches on how to hear God. We must be spirit led we are told.

All true of course.

We already have a more sure word though. God has already spoken about a lot of things.

So, we are getting evicted, long story how that came about. Had a few days to leave before court action. The wife keeps asking, has God spoken to you? Has he told you what we need to do. She tells me that for some strange reason she has peace about moving, is that God telling her something and preparing her to get thrown out of her home?

Next, folks are talking about New apartments to the wife, and her parents bring in a bunch of moving boxes with stuff they were giving to her. Not related to having to move, but God must know we can use those moving boxes, so that could be God.

So, the wife keeps with asking if I heard God, did I talk to my grandma about getting money. I told her I have heard God. And I only asked God for money, man is not my source, God is not hard of hearing.

What did God say? I said God said take no thought, for even the gentiles take thought and God knows you have need of these things. God told me he will supply all my needs according to his riches and glory.

She said that is just quoting scripture. Yep, good enough for me.

The enemy can confuse us and get us to side with him though natural feelings and things. He can even look and sound a whole lot like the Lord.

We have a more sure word though.

I just told the devil I am not moving anywhere, and God has not failed one time. That is just how it ends up devil.

It was just a couple days ago someone came to visit, and before they left they handed my wife a receipt for all the rent paid. The Lord told them to go pay it, we never said a word to anyone and God never said a word to me about it but through the same scripture everyone else has. They also bought my wife a phone card because we ran out of minutes that next day.

If your source of strength is only the feelings of God's presence and what your flesh can see and feel, that's a big problem. If you have to hear God on every matter, and not just believe what he said, that's a problem. Can't count the times someone told me God said this, but I know scriptue says different.

What is it then? We are thankful for God showing up, and everyone laughing and having a great time. We need to grow up though, and sadly in lots of Pentecostals services it's not a good service unless everyone is rolling on the floor. These folks believe most anything, God or not.

We don't limit God, we don't teach truth or seek things outside of scripture.

The supernatural shows up because of Faith first in scripture. Not the other way around

 

[Brother Mike]

I understand fully what you are saying and I can't disregard anything you said. I myself have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. I speak and pray in tongues. I have been slain in the Spirit. I have on several occasions been caught up in the Spirit to raise my hands while the preacher is preaching, shout Amen, praise the Lord, preach it! BUT, I have never done what these people on the video are doing. I just feel that it is more emotionalism than anything else. It is nothing I'd be interested in entering into. In my spirit, I'm not convinced that it is of the Holy Spirit of Whom I know very well.

I respect your views because you are acquainted with more of that kind of expression than I am. I can only discern what I have seen in several video's and you are right, they can be manipulated anyway the director wants it to appear....Thanks for your reply old Friend.

I have experienced my share. Being acquainted with it, does not mean I think it's the best way. Some things seem normal to me that does not to others. Like praying in tongues, it's the norm, and how I mostly pray. My own understanding of praying is far to limited. For you praying in tongues may seem just a normal thing all believers ought to be doing. So who are we asking about this Kundalini???

Asking a forum full of folks that have been taught different with different experiences. Tongues don't seem so normal here to some, so dancing around acting like clowns would really not seem normal.

Angel orbs, Gold dust, mana, ....................... Not one case have I seen these things to be real. Angel orbs are refracted light from a short range flash on a digital camera. You can't produce them without a digital camera. You might find fine glitter in the sanctuary if you look hard, but did we forget the kids had the sanctuary 3 months ago doing some projects with glitter?

People laughing out loud and falling down under the power of the Holy Spirit. I have seen it happen, but it don't happen that often. I know it can happen, how does the body act when God's power is around?

My advice is not to seek after these things. If they happen, then they happen.

It seems things WE do and believe are fine and are of God, but that's as far as we will give permission to God for Him to go.

Aren't a whole bunch of us going to be surprised to see "Appalachian Snake Handlers" in Heaven? (That's OK..... they will be just as shocked to see us there.)

Lots of dead folks picking up snakes based on misunderstanding what Jesus said in Mark 16. It's dumb, we don't pick up poisonous snakes, it's not a show of faith, but it does show IQ.

Many seem to have forgotten that nobody is defending Kundalini. The conflict seems to be in to what extent similarities to what happens in a Kundalini meeting can and should be allowed in legitimate moves of God in the church.

Not all the video's showed established churches where integrity is not in question. Rodney Browns integrity is not in question, neither is Brother Copelands. Most of their meetings are not like that, and not one of Copelands I have been to ended up like that.

Kenneth teaches, Rodney has a different type of ministry. I don't know about the others I have seen in the video. A couple of times in my church things sort of got like that, twice that I can count. It's a teaching church though and my Pastor was raised up under Kennth Hagin for over 20 years. Keith Moore.

The most dramatic thing I saw was on Wed Night. Prayer night where we pray in english and tongues. Mrs Moore called us down to the front to stand around her and a women just started screaming and fell to the ground rolling all over the place saying good things about God.

Mrs Moore said, "Devil, that is enough, be still." the women looked at her then Mrs Moore asked her if she wanted to be free and get help. She started to scream again and said no, no, no.... So Mrs Moore had the ushers remove her and I did not see her again.

 

[Brother Mike]

Rodney Howard Browne. How most of his services are conducted.

Just fly through the video and not one time do we see people acting nuts. This is a typical meeting for him.

We have to be careful with those that are trying to prove a agenda. The video is just straight teaching like most his meetings. (Most)

 

[Willie T]

How radical ! I think I actually heard two or three people singing at the same time..... isn't that somehow unscriptural?

Let's face it, if people are hell-bent on putting someone down, it won't matter how much you show them.

 

[Brother Mike]

How radical ! I think I actually heard two or three people singing at the same time..... isn't that somehow unscriptural?

Let's face it, if people are hell-bent on putting someone down, it won't matter how much you show them.

Yep, I can remember the head line a few years back. "Kenneth Copeland says we are little god's"

What a horrible thing to be the offspring of the father created in his image as a real son. The did not play the whole thing, just clips of it. All Kenneth was saying is that children of the most high have rights and a inheritance in Christ Jesus. We are not some poor sinners saved by grace, we use to be that.

Some of the worse deceivers I have met call themselves Christians, but they are gossipers that gender up strife, unfit for the masters use. Then the ignorant of the world back up the powerless, being unlearned in those they listen to.

Jesus Christ is not the only way it reads on larry king. Joel Osteen, quoted saying. Joel never said that, or suggested that. More liars fit for destruction and those that follow them.

 

[jasonc]

ok, im not a fan of Copeland for sure, but well I don't believe in taking psalms out of context. do we do torah as Christians. the full chapter talks about doing wrong and what happens.

ye are gods but ye shall die like men. that is too the sandedrin and priests only as they were in such a place to judge and to teach.

psalm 82