Kundalini Warning To The Church Of Jesus Christ....True or False.

[jasonc]

Oh, you must have never seen a person slain in the Spirit fall forward. You should get out more.

I have.

 

[Chopper]

Many of the people who enter that realm have never experienced that peace.

You are so right Gary. There are lots of folk who need

Thanks for posting the video. And thanks to Willie T for steering this away from becoming a one sided bash fest. Because I respect people on both sides, I chose to give the subject more thought than the reflexive personal repulsion I normally get from witnessing spectacular worship. That said, I now don't think it is a blessing from God, nor a curse from satan. Instead I believe this type of experiencial worship is a neutral human tactic utilized by many who seek God, and in the case of other religions, Hindus for example, not necessarily the True God. So then, whether for good or evil, the merit of experiencial worship depends upon the God one is reaching for. From the Christian perspective the problem with experience seeking is that it is only milk, while those who might promote it the most may also be the least likely to lead their followers on to the meat of the gospel. However, that does not mean those followers are lost.

You mentioned a "neutral" position. That is correct. A neutral position IMO is the place where Christians are simply not thinking, they are neutral and can be intimidated in several directions. If a Christian is focused on daily living for Jesus, his mind will be controlled, somewhat by the Spirit of God and he/she will see this as not of God. But if this person is not "living for Jesus" and is drawn to the excitement mentality, they can and do get sucked into this kind of false worship. A neutral mind is the devil's playground. Lets keep our minds on heavenly things, not on the things of this world.

 

[Karl]

I all fairness, Karl, I think we need to remember two things about this series of videos by Andrew Strom.
HE is calling it the Kundalini spirit, that doesn't mean he is correct.
And it is clear in the videos that he is promoting the book that he wrote and wants us to buy.

Th mistaken actions of some can muddy the waters of many and some people take advantage of the misfortune of others to enrich themselves. I'm not saying that is what Mr Strom is doing by posting these videos but to me it is suspect.

What his ulterior motives are we are not to judge, what he has presented is documented evidence that there is a Kundalini force used in the Easter religions and the same manifestations accompanied in Eastern religion worship are now being introduced into the Church.

I will PM you with a link from a man who practices Kundalini on a regular basis and he tells of the dangers of it, I won't post the link here because someone new in Christ or weak or unlearned may be harmed by it, which is the warning he gives at the beginning, ...that Kundalini can kill you,

I watched the Nicky Cruz vids, very good, never knew the story behind the man, thanks again.

 

[Karl]

So far, and I don't say this derogatorily or in condemnation, but the side that says it's from the Lord are going on their experiences, what I would like to see is Scriptural verification that the experiences/manifestations are from the Lord, more importantly, Scriptural evidence that it is the Holy Spirit at work in the church,

....like Sgt Friday said, "Just the facts.....,"

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:20

 

[turnorburn]

i think everyone here will agree that the spirit Kundalini won't/doesn't present the gospel of Jesus Christ, so where in all of this is Jesus glorified, where is his gospel?

tob

 

[jasonc]

You are so right Gary. There are lots of folk who need


You mentioned a "neutral" position. That is correct. A neutral position IMO is the place where Christians are simply not thinking, they are neutral and can be intimidated in several directions. If a Christian is focused on daily living for Jesus, his mind will be controlled, somewhat by the Spirit of God and he/she will see this as not of God. But if this person is not "living for Jesus" and is drawn to the excitement mentality, they can and do get sucked into this kind of false worship. A neutral mind is the devil's playground. Lets keep our minds on heavenly things, not on the things of this world.

I think his argument is that the fact that worship of football teams is a form of idolatry as people shout, dance and so forth therefore if that is a sin then so doing the exact same thing in church. people cry in secular concerts, they clap and dance(though that dancing is sinful these days most of the time unless its the old school of it).

 

[Jesse]

I think his argument is that the fact that worship of football teams is a form of idolatry as people shout, dance and so forth therefore if that is a sin then so doing the exact same thing in church. people cry in secular concerts, they clap and dance(though that dancing is sinful these days most of the time unless its the old school of it).

Yet one is done in the name of God and the other one is not, I'd say that's the difference, regardless of anyone's opinion.

 

[Chopper]

I wish I had been able to follow this thread through from the beginning, and had the time to quote the video Willie posted, but anyway, I honestly think what you are seeing in some of the prayer sessions are exorcisms. You may not recognize them as that because of Hollywood, but I'm confident that's what's happening:

"Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!" The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek. (Mark 1:25-26 NASB)

It is entirely Biblical that a person may convulse in response to the activity of the Holy Spirit in a person warring against the powers of darkness. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because some people make merchandise of it, or act it out to an uncontrolled extreme when that's not really happening.

Now don't think that I'm explaining everything in all of these videos as being that, and if you watch Willie's video you'll know that neither does the founder of Vineyard. He's quite candid and honest about what was happening in HIS meetings.

My own testimony of shaking is not because a demon came out of me by the power of God, but because that is what would often happen to me after having a manifest encounter with the Holy Spirit. I could easily have let it be uncontrolled and put on a grand display of the Spirit at work in me, and I think that is the mistake many in the movement do. Spiritual manifestations do not automatically equate to being out of control. That's only true if you let it be that way.

This is where the rubber meets the road. Are we Christians going to believe the Bible, or are we not? Dramatic manifestations of the Spirit at work in a person are entirely Biblical. But this is perhaps the primary example of how spiritless teachers and leaders of the church have suppressed the truth of the Bible and robbed the body of Christ of this valuable knowledge. So many of us don't even know this stuff is in our very own Bibles thanks to this ungodly suppression of truth. This is how indoctrinations work. You are told something over and over until you can't see the truth right under your own nose.

"Dramatic manifestations of the Spirit at work in a person are entirely Biblical." Jethro, I would like to see at least two Scriptures to back up that statement of yours please.

 

[Chopper]

I think his argument is that the fact that worship of football teams is a form of idolatry as people shout, dance and so forth therefore if that is a sin then so doing the exact same thing in church. people cry in secular concerts, they clap and dance(though that dancing is sinful these days most of the time unless its the old school of it).

To go along with what you are saying, A few years ago I went to a large auditorium to see a Christian concert. I can't remember their names, something like the Continentals. There eventually were mostly women who came out of the audience, came down in front of the stage and began some kind of dance. It was totally sensual and not godly. No man should see a woman who he is not married to, dance like that! I noticed that the women wore very revealing clothing. It didn't take long for me to ask my wife if she wanted to leave. She said yes right off and we left. It was to bad because the music was very good but these women who were not asked, spoiled it for I believe a minority of God fearing Christians.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Dramatic manifestations of the Spirit at work in a person are entirely Biblical." Jethro, I would like to see at least two Scriptures to back up that statement of yours please.

Right off I think of these:

38 ...and standing behind Him at His feet, weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears, and kept wiping them with the hair of her head, and kissing His feet and anointing them with the perfume.
44 "...she has wet My feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 "You gave Me no kiss; but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss My feet. 46 "You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume." (Luke 7:38,44-46 NASB)

"3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." (Acts 2:3-4 NASB)

"7 Now I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, while the men who were with me did not see the vision; nevertheless, a great dread fell on them, and they ran away to hide themselves. 8 So I was left alone and saw this great vision; yet no strength was left in me, for my natural color turned to a deathly pallor, and I retained no strength. 9 But I heard the sound of his words; and as soon as I heard the sound of his words, I fell into a deep sleep on my face, with my face to the ground." (Daniel 10:7-9 NASB)


And if anyone thinks being 'drunk with the Spirit' is not Biblical consider this prophecy:
"...their heart will be glad as if from wine; Indeed, their children will see it and be glad, Their heart will rejoice in the LORD." (Zechariah 10:7 NASB)

And these prophecies of overwhelming and overflowing joy:
"5"Then you will see and be radiant, And your heart will thrill and rejoice..." (Isaiah 60:5 NASB)

'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' " 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive... (John 7:38-39 NASB)

 

[Brother Mike]

I will admit that this video is has a big impact to different people. My purpose in showing it is to find out your opinion. Is this so called "Blessing" of God, or of the dark world of Satan. I want your honest opinion. not a place to insult each other.

.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but is not that video the entire foundation of this thread?

I have spoken to Rodney Howard Brown personally, even on the phone. I know brother copeland from him and staff visiting our church every year.

There are ministries full of anointing and joy, some like my church are just just learning. When God used me to help a brother to be healed that power and joy came over both of us. The flesh dose not know how to cope with that, so you just laugh.

I suspect when that anointing is there, the flesh can't deal with it.

At brother Copeland meeting, I felt the power coming through the walls to the outside. I was doing parking lot team for him. Many driving by pulled in with testimony that they felt some pull to go check it out.

Been to churches where everyone one is on the floor giggling. Does not seem to be much in the decent and in order category.

Thing is, the enemy does not want you in joy over the Lord, even if it's just flesh acting out. I have experienced the real thing. And lots of it is just emotionalism. I can tell when the anointing of God is stronger than what is normally with me. I can tell we when someone else is anointed.

Though it may be just flesh, emotions, and nonsense. The heart is what matters. If the heart is not toward evil then so what. Let the immature in spirit have joy, and flesh minds refreshed. Not for me, but God loves them.

 

[TOG]

It seems that people have always objected to others showing joy in the Lord.

And it was told King David, “The Lord has blessed the household of Obed-edom and all that belongs to him, because of the ark of God.” So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-edom to the city of David with rejoicing. And when those who bore the ark of the Lord had gone six steps, he sacrificed an ox and a fattened animal. And David danced before the Lord with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the Lord with shouting and with the sound of the horn.

As the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and she despised him in her heart. And they brought in the ark of the Lord and set it in its place, inside the tent that David had pitched for it. And David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord. And when David had finished offering the burnt offerings and the peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the Lord of hosts and distributed among all the people, the whole multitude of Israel, both men and women, a cake of bread, a portion of meat, and a cake of raisins to each one. Then all the people departed, each to his house.


And David returned to bless his household. But Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David and said, “How the king of Israel honored himself today, uncovering himself today before the eyes of his servants' female servants, as one of the vulgar fellows shamelessly uncovers himself!” And David said to Michal, “It was before the Lord, who chose me above your father and above all his house, to appoint me as prince over Israel, the people of the Lord—and I will celebrate before the Lord. I will make myself yet more contemptible than this, and I will be abased in your eyes. But by the female servants of whom you have spoken, by them I shall be held in honor.” And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death. (II Sam. 6:12-23 ESV)
​

The TOG

 

[Willie T]

Right off I think of these:

38 ...and standing behind Him at His feet, weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears, and kept wiping them with the hair of her head, and kissing His feet and anointing them with the perfume.
44 "...she has wet My feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 "You gave Me no kiss; but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss My feet. 46 "You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume." (Luke 7:38,44-46 NASB)

"3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." (Acts 2:3-4 NASB)

"7 Now I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, while the men who were with me did not see the vision; nevertheless, a great dread fell on them, and they ran away to hide themselves. 8 So I was left alone and saw this great vision; yet no strength was left in me, for my natural color turned to a deathly pallor, and I retained no strength. 9 But I heard the sound of his words; and as soon as I heard the sound of his words, I fell into a deep sleep on my face, with my face to the ground." (Daniel 10:7-9 NASB)


And if anyone thinks being 'drunk with the Spirit' is not Biblical consider this prophecy:
"...their heart will be glad as if from wine; Indeed, their children will see it and be glad, Their heart will rejoice in the LORD." (Zechariah 10:7 NASB)

And these prophecies of overwhelming and overflowing joy:
"5"Then you will see and be radiant, And your heart will thrill and rejoice..." (Isaiah 60:5 NASB)

'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' " 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive... (John 7:38-39 NASB)

Beautiful response.

Being challenged to show emotion from the Bible kind of reminds me of what young lawyers are taught....... "Don't ask questions you don't already know the answers to."

Some of us stodgy old fogies often begin to actually believe the dead religiosity we bask so pridefullly in is somehow God's desire for His people..

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Right off I think of these:


And if anyone thinks being 'drunk with the Spirit' is not Biblical consider this prophecy:
"...their heart will be glad as if from wine; Indeed, their children will see it and be glad, Their heart will rejoice in the LORD." (Zechariah 10:7 NASB)

And these prophecies of overwhelming and overflowing joy:
"5"Then you will see and be radiant, And your heart will thrill and rejoice..." (Isaiah 60:5 NASB)

'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' " 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive... (John 7:38-39 NASB)

Not good examples.

I drink wine and am glad and rejoice in the Lord for what he has given me.
But I don't get drunk.
That goes against Scripture.

I have seen people radiant.
I have been told I was radiant.
But it comes from an experience with God that can be shared with others in a sober manner.

And if one should flow with rivers of living water, it in no way is referring to rolling in the aisles or drooling from the mouth, or any other outrageous thing.

Yes, not good examples.

 

[Willie T]

Rollo............ "I'm being joyful." "Didn't you see the right corner of my lips twitch a little bit?"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Rollo............ "I'm being joyful." "Didn't you see the right corner of my lips twitch a little bit?"

Another outburst like that and we'll have the ushers carry you out.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not good examples.

I drink wine and am glad and rejoice in the Lord for what he has given me.
But I don't get drunk.
That goes against Scripture.

I have seen people radiant.
I have been told I was radiant.
But it comes from an experience with God that can be shared with others in a sober manner.

And if one should flow with rivers of living water, it in no way is referring to rolling in the aisles or drooling from the mouth, or any other outrageous thing.

Yes, not good examples.

Yes, Rollo, all these means we can bark at the moon in church.

Let me remind you what these passages are being posted in response to since you seem to have forgotten:

"Dramatic manifestations of the Spirit at work in a person are entirely Biblical." Jethro, I would like to see at least two Scriptures to back up that statement of yours please.

All of the things I posted are BIBLICAL dramatic manifestations of the Spirit at work in a person: Weeping uncontrollably, an unsavory member of the community (presumably a prostitute) wiping tears off someone's feet with their hair, falling as though dead at the hearing of the word of God, joyful abundance spilling over as when drinking wine, flames of fire above one's head (gasp! I'm really out in left field now!). Speaking in tongues. All dramatic, and from the pages of our Bibles--even your Bible, I bet.

Which one of these are not dramatic and/or not from the pages of our Bibles?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes, Rollo, all these means we can bark at the moon in church.

Let me remind you what these passages are being posted in response to since you seem to have forgotten:

All of the things I posted are BIBLICAL dramatic manifestations of the Spirit at work in a person: Weeping uncontrollably, an unsavory member of the community (presumably a prostitute) wiping tears off someone's feet with their hair, falling as though dead at the hearing of the word of God, joyful abundance spilling over as when drinking wine, flames of fire above one's head (gasp! I'm really out in left field now!). Speaking in tongues. All dramatic, and from the pages of our Bibles--even your Bible, I bet.

Which one of these are not dramatic and/or not from the pages of our Bibles?

Your examples are a far cry from the OP video.
And you don't have to remind me of anything as I am reading all that is posted.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have spoken to Rodney Howard Brown personally, even on the phone.

I bet he called collect.

Been to churches where everyone one is on the floor giggling. Does not seem to be much in the decent and in order category.

And may I point out to our brothers and sisters that just because something gets out of order that does not automatically mean what is happening is fake. Paul was hardly telling the Corinthians that their chaotic meetings meant the gifts being manifested were fake. No, they were just chaotic and out of control, not false manifestations. He commended the Corinthians for their gifts.

Thing is, the enemy does not want you in joy over the Lord, even if it's just flesh acting out.

If only the church understood this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Your examples are a far cry from the OP video.
And you don't have to remind me of anything as I am reading all that is posted.

If you were making another point you should have said so. But instead you made it look like I was attempting to respond to something I was not.

As far as what's in the OP video, I don't think anyone is endorsing all of that behavior in the church. In Willie's video the founder of the Vineyard Church addresses the outrageous and what he thought about it, and what he did about it. I'll find it for everyone so we can put an end to this ridiculous and unfair accusation that since Kundalini is false and of the devil, anything similar to that going on in any and all churches is false and unBiblical and of the devil, too.