Kundalini Warning To The Church Of Jesus Christ....True or False.

[Karl]

Age of Grace? When has God not shown grace to His people?

Ya had ta ask, didn't ya? (grin)

I was using that word age Eph 3:2 (because references were made to a different dispensation), rather than dispensation or economy, ...so as to not start another debate within this thread, of course we all know it has always been grace since the Garden and not works.

This is a perfect example of why we can't have single subject discussions no matter how hard we try, the Bible is so written that it all ties together into one subject, Jesus Christ, and errors are made when we try to take them apart.

 

[Willie T]

The works is the evidence of the faith.

I honestly was kind of serious when I asked you to list some "works" that prove the righteousness of a person.

 

[Willie T]

Ya had ta ask, didn't ya? (grin)

I was using that word age Eph 3:2 (because references were made to a different dispensation), rather than dispensation or economy, ...so as to not start another debate within this thread, of course we all know it has always been grace since the Garden and not works.

This is a perfect example of why we can't have single subject discussions no matter how hard we try, the Bible is so written that it all ties together into one subject, Jesus Christ, and errors are made when we try to take them apart.

This much is SO true. Dogmatically focused single mindedness is often the basis of mistaken doctrine.

 

[Jesse]

I honestly was kind of serious when I asked you to list some "works" that prove the righteousness of a person.

I know, I gave you the verse about how God views true religion, out of James: true religion is taking care of orphans and widows.

Works is evidence of saving faith, like James talks about. If we see a man without clothes and wish him well, but don't give him clothes or food, what kind of faith is that? It's not the saving kind.

Anyway, that's how I read James.

 

[Deborah13]

Oh, and I certainly won't be Kundalizing any time in the future but thanks for the warning. Interesting reading.

Welcome Tom, glad to have you here and sharing your thoughts.

 

[Deborah13]

I know, I gave you the verse about how God views true religion, out of James: true religion is taking care of orphans and widows.

Works is evidence of saving faith, like James talks about. If we see a man without clothes and wish him well, but don't give him clothes or food, what kind of faith is that? It's not the saving kind.

Anyway, that's how I read James.

If one could leave someone to freeze or starve, etc. then they show that they do not have the love of Christ.

 

[Willie T]

I know, I gave you the verse about how God views true religion, out of James: true religion is taking care of orphans and widows.

Works is evidence of saving faith, like James talks about. If we see a man without clothes and wish him well, but don't give him clothes or food, what kind of faith is that? It's not the saving kind.

Anyway, that's how I read James.

I know you may not be old enough to remember all the horrible exposés of the many (often "Christian") organizations - and individuals, too - that made themselves very rich, "taking care of orphans and widows", but you can Google it. The "fruit inspecting" we engage in (an unbiblical practice, BTW) will often fool you because you can only see what is meant for you to see.

 

[Jesse]

I know you may not be old enough to remember all the horrible exposés of the many (often "Christian") organizations - and individuals, too - that made themselves very rich, "taking care of orphans and widows", but you can Google it. The "fruit inspecting" we engage in (an unbiblical practice, BTW) will often fool you because you can only see what is meant for you to see.

Why is knowing people by their Fruit an unbiblical practice?

No, I don't know anything about that phrase and past organizations, I will google it.

 

[Willie T]

Why is knowing people by their Fruit an unbiblical practice?

No, I don't know anything about that phrase and past organizations, I will google it.

Just so we both know we are on the same page, what verse/s are you referring to when you speak of "knowing them by their fruit?"

 

[Jesse]

Just so we both know we are on the same page, what verse/s are you referring to when you speak of "knowing them by their fruit?"

Matthew 7:16

 

[reba]

I know you may not be old enough to remember all the horrible exposés of the many (often "Christian") organizations - and individuals, too - that made themselves very rich, "taking care of orphans and widows", but you can Google it. The "fruit inspecting" we engage in (an unbiblical practice, BTW) will often fool you because you can only see what is meant for you to see.

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luk 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luk 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went

 

[Willie T]

Matthew 7:16

Yeah, I was kind of afraid that was the one. Start back 16 verses in front of that to get the idea that was being taught.

The first verse in chapter 7 sets the tone when, paraphrased, it says, "Don't be a fruit Inspector, unless you are perfect... and none of you are." And all the rest goes on to tell you what to look for in your own life... how to keep YOURSELF on track........... NOT criteria for judging someone else's righteousness.

What your verse tells you is simply that the effects of wrong teaching will eventually show up in thoughts and actions that are in conflict with what Jesus taught.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What opportunity did the thief have on the cross to show the faith that saved him in some kind of deed that Jesus could use as evidence of his saving faith?

If salvation was based on the merit of works of the law completed he'd be lost. But since it is his faith that justifies him apart from his works, and being nailed to a cross kinda relieves him of any obligation to act out his faith in a way that confirms that faith, he's cool.

Wrong!

 

[Jesse]

Yeah, I was kind of afraid that was the one. Start back 16 verses in front of that to get the idea that was being taught.

The first verse in chapter 7 sets the tone when, paraphrased, it says, "Don't be a fruit Inspector, unless you are perfect... and none of you are." And all the rest goes on to tell you what to look for in your own life... how to keep YOURSELF on track........... NOT criteria for judging someone else's righteousness.

What your verse tells you is simply that the effects of wrong teaching will eventually show up in thoughts and actions that are in conflict with what Jesus taught.

The way I read this verse is that we are being told to watch out for false prophets and we will know them by their fruits. . Then it goes onto say that we will recognize them by their fruits, if by what they prophecy doesn't come true, then they are false prophets. After this it is talking about how the fruit we bare is either good or bad fruit. Again it says we will recognize them by their fruit.

We are supposed to be a fruit inspector, how else would we know if a person is a false prophet? False teacher?

 

[Willie T]

The way I read this verse is that we are being told to watch out for false prophets and we will know them by their fruits. . Then it goes onto say that we will recognize them by their fruits, if by what they prophecy doesn't come true, then they are false prophets. After this it is talking about how the fruit we bare is either good or bad fruit. Again it says we will recognize them by their fruit.

We are supposed to be a fruit inspector, how else would we know if a person is a false prophet? False teacher?

By judging what comes from their teachings, NOT by trying to, "Ah Ha, gottcha!", them if they say something we don't agree with. It may come as a shock to many of us, but our view of the Bible isn''t all there is, nor even necessarily correct, demanding that anything anyone else says has to be exposed as heresy.

 

[Jesse]

By judging what comes from their teachings, NOT by trying to, "Ah Ha, gottcha!", them if they say something we don't agree with. It may come as a shock to many of us, but our view of the Bible isn''t all there is, nor even necessarily correct, demanding that anything anyone else says has to be exposed as heresy.

I agree with you and see your point. I've always thought that as teachers/prophets they are leaders in the church, so not only their teaching should be watched for Fruit but their lives, too. Doctrine can be memorized, but if they are not living it, too, then I would question their sincerity to the faith. This is also what I think that verse is speaking of. Do you?

 

[Willie T]

I agree with you and see your point. I've always thought that as teachers/prophets they are leaders in the church, so not only their teaching should be watched for Fruit but their lives, too. Doctrine can be memorized, but if they are not living it, too, then I would question their sincerity to the faith. This is also what I think that verse is speaking of. Do you?

Yes, I do. But, there may be a bit more to it. Peter tried to murder Malcus, lied about knowing Jesus, showed prejudice toward Gentiles, and even on one occasion, falsely declared that Jesus should not have to die.

Should he be discounted as a False Leader? This is an example of that "single mindedness" that was mentioned in another thread earlier tonight. It's more than a little dangerous.

 

[Willie T]

Dog walking time......

 

[Jesse]

Yes, I do. But, there may be a bit more to it. Peter tried to murder Malcus, lied about knowing Jesus, showed prejudice toward Gentiles, and even on one occasion, falsely declared that Jesus should not have to die.

Should he be discounted as a False Leader? This is an example of that "single mindedness" that was mentioned in another thread earlier tonight. It's more than a little dangerous.

What was said about single mindedness?

No, but a disqualification would be if the leader was practicing sin, then the Biblical approach should be taken.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Wrong!

Wrong?

I'm surprised to see you defending a works gospel.

Stranger things have happened, I suppose.