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Learning from the Holy Spirit or man?

whirlwind

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How do we, as children of God, know when we are being presented a deeper revelation or a false teaching? Are those that are led by the Spirit to be met with mistrust? Paul said, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? [Galatians 4:16] We are warned....

  • Mark 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, "Take heed lest any man deceive you:

When presented with thoughts on the written Word, we, as students, shouldn't dismiss or accept them as truth or false doctrine simply because it is something we have never heard, is something in conflict with what we have previously learned, or is something those we study with and from have never taught...no matter how great or well known the teacher for....all are men. We are, after all, here to learn and we, as men, realize we don't know all things. We are given two paths.....

  • 2 Timothy 4:2-3 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap up to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


    John 7:16-18 Jesus answered them, and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His That sent Me. If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of Myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but He That seeketh His glory That sent Him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.

How do we tell the difference? There are those that are, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." [11 Timothy 3:5] And, there are those that use scripture, the Word of God, that reveals His hidden wisdom.

  • 11 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Not all will hear, nor should they but because some cannot hear does that mean what is revealed shouldn't be taught?

  • Hebrews 5:11-14 Of Whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (6:1) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

That tells us that there are indeed things, many things, that need be taught but will be difficult because we are "dull of hearing." We are to reach a point, "the time," where we can be teachers and yet what is being taught? "The first principles of God"...baptism, salvation, etc. That is the milk and is considered being "unskilful" in teaching for it is the meat that takes us "on unto perfection."


  • 1 Corinthians 2:4-7 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: (10) But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. To him that overcometh will I give, to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receive it.'

    1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

There comes a time when we are expected to "bear it." The Holy Spirit will teach us all things but we must remain open to His direction and be willing to let go of man's teaching, even when it is that of a good man if the Spirit shows us another way. How? He tells us by His Word.

  • 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is up to each of us to discern....We must listen, strive to see the spiritual meaning, not the letter for the "letter killeth" and test the fruit to see if it is man's wisdom or....God's wisdom.

  • Galatians 4:1-2 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

When the time comes then it is the Spirit that teaches....all things!
:amen
 
whirlwind,

Only those who are weaned can put their hand on the cockatrice's den.

Isa 11:10
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. KJV

Rev 5:5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. KJV

Justification is the key to hell. This is the rest wherewith the weary shall rest. This is the refreshing.

Isa 22:22-23
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house. KJV

Joe
 
And I say :amen and :amen to your post whirlwind

Scripture says that knowledge will increase in the last days - I believe this includes knowledge of things relealed by the Spirit.
 
Joe67 said:
whirlwind,

Only those who are weaned can put their hand on the cockatrice's den.


This is true. The power He gives us is from His Word. The power isn't in the milk.

  • Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall He teach knowledge? and whom shall He make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isa 11:10
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. KJV

Rev 5:5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. KJV

Justification is the key to hell. This is the rest wherewith the weary shall rest. This is the refreshing.


Please explain "justification is the key to hell."

Isa 22:22-23
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house. KJV

Joe

The key was laid "upon His shoulder." He IS the Word so the key is, I believe, understanding of His Word. He opens understanding to us and truly...NONE shall shut what He has opened.
 
mutzrein said:
And I say :amen and :amen to your post whirlwind

Scripture says that knowledge will increase in the last days - I believe this includes knowledge of things relealed by the Spirit.


Thank you Mutzrein. :)

Knowledge will increase but, as you stated, it "includes knowledge" of the Spirit. Both forces are at work. As the Holy Spirit teaches so does the evil spirit. Especially in these last days, the "time of the end." There is lots of running "to and fro," going on. :(

  • Run to and fro - apostatize, despise, hence, to do despite, turn aside, revolters (the Sept., Swete's edition, vol. iii, p, 572 reads heos an apomanosin = till many shall have gone raving mad." ~ E.W. Bullinger
:o
 
whirlwind,

Let us "chew the cud" on these testimonies of the Spirit of Jesus and we shall all be taught of God as the Spirit reveals the deep things of God to us.

Rev 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. KJV

1 Cor 1:23-24
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. KJV

1 John 5:6
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. KJV

Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. KJV

Joe
 
Joe67 said:
whirlwind,

Let us "chew the cud" on these testimonies of the Spirit of Jesus and we shall all be taught of God as the Spirit reveals the deep things of God to us.

Rev 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. KJV

1 Cor 1:23-24
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. KJV

1 John 5:6
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. KJV

Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. KJV

Joe

I'm sorry Joe but I don't understand the connection you see. I'm afraid it is over my head but please clarify.
 
whirlwind said:
When the time comes then it is the Spirit that teaches....all things! [/b] :amen
Fantastic. :)
And the Spirit inspired these scriptures;
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
(1 Timothy 1:3 KJV)


Now I urge you, brothers, to look out for those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them.
(Romans 16:17 EMTV)



Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
(Hebrews 13:9 KJV)


That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(Ephesians 4:14 KJV)


Instructing the brothers in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, being nourished by the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
(1 Timothy 4:6 EMTV)


2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Galatians 1:8-9 KJV)


But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
(Titus 2:1 KJV)
 
whirlwind said:
mutzrein said:
And I say :amen and :amen to your post whirlwind

Scripture says that knowledge will increase in the last days - I believe this includes knowledge of things relealed by the Spirit.


Thank you Mutzrein. :)

Knowledge will increase but, as you stated, it "includes knowledge" of the Spirit. Both forces are at work. As the Holy Spirit teaches so does the evil spirit. Especially in these last days, the "time of the end." There is lots of running "to and fro," going on. :(

  • Run to and fro - apostatize, despise, hence, to do despite, turn aside, revolters (the Sept., Swete's edition, vol. iii, p, 572 reads heos an apomanosin = till many shall have gone raving mad." ~ E.W. Bullinger
:o
uh...those 'last days' happened with Christ and His church...and started nearly 2000 years ago.

For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
(Acts 2:15-18 KJV)
'knowledge' was increased when Jesus came and gave us the truth.
This is VERY CLEARLY speaking about things like Pentecost and the Spirits interaction with the CHURCH....ie US.

Paul says that the veil is removed from the Jews mind in Christ.
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
(2 Corinthians 3:13-16 KJV)
These 'last days' are referring to when Christ would come and bring His revelation....which we can ALL READ in the New Testament.


.
 
whirlwind said:

This is true. The power He gives us is from His Word. The power isn't in the milk.

Exactly....from HIS WORD !
And His word shows us that we are to adhere to sound doctrine....
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
(Acts 2:42 KJV)
That good old doctrine of the apostles...it was good enough for them...its good enough for us....no cereal filler required .


.
 
Both.

Scripture is clear that God gave teachers to the Body of Christ, that must bring us to maturity with the help of the rest of the five fold ministry.

We need men of GOD, that teach the WORD, (not the words and doctrines of men) Those were given to the body, through the gifting of the Holy Spirit. If we reject them, then we are on one leg only.

Our responsibility is to see that we get to those people, who teach a pure Word.It must be Christ centered. They must like Paul : 1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. That would include teaching about our own death on that cross. That would include teaching the whole message of that cross. The death to the old man, and the result of that cross. The resurrection and what that means in the life of the believer.

What does resurrection life mean to a Christian? What does "death to self" mean? That is the power of the cross. Yet we know little or nothing of it.

Find yourself teachers that preach the gospel. Not just "Jesus died for you and now you get to go to heaven". NO find teachers who are anointed to preach the power of the Word of God.

How will you know when you have found them?

You will know them by their fruit. They will walk as Christ walked.
 
follower of Christ said:
whirlwind said:
When the time comes then it is the Spirit that teaches....all things! [/b] :amen
Fantastic. :)
And the Spirit inspired these scriptures;
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
(1 Timothy 1:3 KJV)


Now I urge you, brothers, to look out for those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them.
(Romans 16:17 EMTV)



Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
(Hebrews 13:9 KJV)


That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(Ephesians 4:14 KJV)


Instructing the brothers in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, being nourished by the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
(1 Timothy 4:6 EMTV)


2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Galatians 1:8-9 KJV)


But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
(Titus 2:1 KJV)


Before you "accurse," me dear brother in Christ, please specify what other "gospel," or what other "doctrine," I have mentioned as well as the divisions I have caused.
 
Cornelius said:
Both.

Scripture is clear that God gave teachers to the Body of Christ, that must bring us to maturity with the help of the rest of the five fold ministry.
Sorry friend, but those 'teachers' mentioned in scripture are BEFORE the New testament was finished so that we have a WRITTEN authority to test ANY teaching against.
We need men of GOD, that teach the WORD, (not the words and doctrines of men) Those were given to the body, through the gifting of the Holy Spirit. If we reject them, then we are on one leg only.
And those men are to be IN LINE with Gods written word as it is given in whole, and in harmony.

Our responsibility is to see that we get to those people, who teach a pure Word.It must be Christ centered. They must like Paul : 1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. That would include teaching about our own death on that cross. That would include teaching the whole message of that cross. The death to the old man, and the result of that cross. The resurrection and what that means in the life of the believer.
And that isnt the only problem here.
As I said, Ive seen with my own eyes where some here have ripped scriptures out of context to jam them together with other passages to try to teach things that arent accurate.

You want to teach the gospel in its simplicity and in line with the written word...Im all for it.
But if someone wants to twist and mangle Gods word to create teachings that arent in there claiming 'god' is teaching them...sorry, but no one gets past the ID check at the door. I'll call ANY man or woman on it, including my own mentors.

What does resurrection life mean to a Christian? What does "death to self" mean? That is the power of the cross. Yet we know little or nothing of it.
We ALL have bibles here to read...so we ALL can see what God says in the matter.
And if anyones teaching here lines up perfectly with Gods word, we're all very interested in listening, Id guess. If not, then it goes out with yesterdays garbage.

The Spirit inspired the scriptures. He certainly will not misuse them to push false doctrines.

Find yourself teachers that preach the gospel. Not just "Jesus died for you and now you get to go to heaven". NO find teachers who are anointed to preach the power of the Word of God.

How will you know when you have found them?

You will know them by their fruit. They will walk as Christ walked.
We know we've found them when they teach in PERFECT harmony with the CLEAR, HARMONIZED word of Gods WHOLE word :)
 
whirlwind said:
follower of Christ said:
whirlwind said:
When the time comes then it is the Spirit that teaches....all things! [/b] :amen
Fantastic. :)
And the Spirit inspired these scriptures;
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
(1 Timothy 1:3 KJV)


Now I urge you, brothers, to look out for those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and turn away from them.
(Romans 16:17 EMTV)



Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
(Hebrews 13:9 KJV)


That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(Ephesians 4:14 KJV)


Instructing the brothers in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, being nourished by the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
(1 Timothy 4:6 EMTV)


2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Galatians 1:8-9 KJV)


But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
(Titus 2:1 KJV)


Before you "accurse," me dear brother in Christ, please specify what other "gospel," or what other "doctrine," I have mentioned as well as the divisions I have caused.
Im not certain the rules allow me to bring material from a locked thread into an open one, WW....but we BOTH know that I presented at least two instances in another thread that is now locked where you were MISusing scriptures to make a point.

:)
 
As RickW pointed out in WW's other thread, we need to get back to the topic and see where it goes.
I'll read and see what happens :)
 
follower of Christ said:
We know we've found them when they teach in PERFECT harmony with the CLEAR, HARMONIZED word of Gods WHOLE word :)
That would be 100% correct. Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth;
 
Cornelius said:
follower of Christ said:
We know we've found them when they teach in PERFECT harmony with the CLEAR, HARMONIZED word of Gods WHOLE word :)
That would be 100% correct. Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth;
Lets get back on topic. :)
 
follower of Christ said:
whirlwind said:
uh...those 'last days' happened with Christ and His church...and started nearly 2000 years ago.


There is your problem right there. :lol


[quote:oy3evlzd]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
(Acts 2:15-18 KJV)
'knowledge' was increased when Jesus came and gave us the truth.
This is VERY CLEARLY speaking about things like Pentecost and the Spirits interaction with the CHURCH....ie US.

Paul says that the veil is removed from the Jews mind in Christ.
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
(2 Corinthians 3:13-16 KJV)
These 'last days' are referring to when Christ would come and bring His revelation....which we can ALL READ in the New Testament.


.[/quote:oy3evlzd][/quote]


We all have the ability to read the written word. Some will understand what they read and others will not. Some of us are blinded to the spiritual meaning.

  • John 12:38-40 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, "Lord who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
 
whirlwind said:
  • John 12:38-40 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, "Lord who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
[/b]

Although this is true and scriptural, I just think in a conversation like this, we maybe should avoid using this in an answer, because in this context, those who disagree with you will certainly take it, that you mean they are the ones "blinded" and hardened and that you are the one who is not.

God is the One who sovereignly through no good of our own, shows us things. He gives this , when we are humble to His Word and He resists all of us , when we are proud.

We all need His grace. I know I certainly do. So lets give grace, so that we can receive it.

C
 
whirlwind said:
There is your problem right there. :lol

Well, since you dont want to get back on topic, WW... ;)

Whats hilarious is that you claim its my 'problem right there'...yet seem to be oblivious to the fact that I very conclusively supported what I stated from Gods word.
The 'last days' is referring to this last AGE that started with the preaching of the gospel....
We all have the ability to read the written word. Some will understand what they read and others will not. Some of us are blinded to the spiritual meaning.
I see.
So YOUR claim is that the Spirit only opens the eyes of SOME Christians then ?
Sorry, but that ISNT what Gods word SHOWS, friend.
 
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