Learning from the Holy Spirit or man?

[jasoncran]

if your are in christ(truly) you cant be blinded, though at times a christian who has a pet sin chooses to ignore the call to repent, and upon repentance and reading the word and seeking the Lord all that he desire to reveal to you shall be in his time, there some things that we arent able to understand.

jason

 

[jasoncran]

Hebrews 1 states that apostles were in the last days. Does it not? So was the writer wrong in Hebrews.

jason

 

[follower of Christ]

if your are in christ(truly) you cant be blinded, though at times a christian who has a pet sin chooses to ignore the call to repent, and upon repentance and reading the word and seeking the Lord all that he desire to reveal to you shall be in his time, there some things that we arent able to understand.

jason

Exactly, Jason.
Those who are IN Christ and remain in Him ARENT blinded.
That is precisely why I gave the Corinthians passage before as I figured it would come up somehow that only SOME christians will be able to see.
The veil is removed in Christ...ie the lights come on when He is in us.

 

[follower of Christ]

Hebrews 1 states that apostles were in the last days. Does it not? So was the writer wrong in Hebrews.

jason

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(Hebrews 1:2 KJV)

 

[follower of Christ]

Just some thoughts from some commentators (whom I do not put any faith in, but simply look at to see what others have thought)

Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days -
In this the final dispensation; or in this dispensation under which the affairs of the world will be wound up. Phrases similar to this occur frequently in the Scriptures. They do not imply that the world was soon coming to an end, but that that was the “last†dispensation, the “last†period of the world.
There had been the patriarchal period, the period under the Law, the prophets, etc., and This was the period during which God’s “last†method of communication would be enjoyed, and under which the world would close. It might be a very long period, but it would be the “last†one; and so far as the meaning of the phrase is concerned, it might be the longest period, or longer than all the others put together, but still it would be the “last†one. See Act_2:17 note; Isa_2:2 note.
-Albert Barnes



Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,.... This is the Gospel revelation, or the revelation in the Gospel dispensation;
-John Gill



Heb 1:2
Last days - The Gospel dispensation, called the last days and the last time, because not to be followed by any other dispensation; or the conclusion of the Jewish Church and state now at their termination.
-Adam Clarke

 

[whirlwind]

Before you "accurse," me dear brother in Christ, please specify what other "gospel," or what other "doctrine," I have mentioned as well as the divisions I have caused. [/b]

Im not certain the rules allow me to bring material from a locked thread into an open one, WW....but we BOTH know that I presented at least two instances in another thread that is now locked where you were MISusing scriptures to make a point.

Perhaps you thought you did but....I don't agree. You use very strong words FOC. What may appear to you as "mis-using Scripture" could simply be that you are not understanding the connection or the point being made. Can we not discuss it as two children of God?

I ask again....what other gospel and what other doctrine have I spoken of? If it is Scripture you quoted I dare say no one would object to your using it again.

 

[whirlwind]

• John 12:38-40 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, "Lord who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."

[/b]

Although this is true and scriptural, I just think in a conversation like this, we maybe should avoid using this in an answer, because in this context, those who disagree with you will certainly take it, that you mean they are the ones "blinded" and hardened and that you are the one who is not.

God is the One who sovereignly through no good of our own, shows us things. He gives this , when we are humble to His Word and He resists all of us , when we are proud.

We all need His grace. I know I certainly do. So lets give grace, so that we can receive it.

C

You are right in your estimation of the use of the verse. I felt that when I quoted it and still pushed the post button. I'm sure I'll feel remorse later but....not yet.

Yes, it is God who shows us things and pride is a block, along with other human frailties, including anger. Part of the old man (old woman ) still hanging on I'm afraid.

Your words are taken to heart. I need grace so I shall give it to receive it.

 

[Sparkey]

I witness what has transpired in the last couple posts and raise my hand.

"Me too, please." I need to give grace that I might get it too. <thanks you guys; the truth you have confessed here washes me.>

~Sparrowhawke

 

[whirlwind]

There is your problem right there.

Well, since you dont want to get back on topic, WW... ;)

Whats hilarious is that you claim its my 'problem right there'...yet seem to be oblivious to the fact that I very conclusively supported what I stated from Gods word.
The 'last days' is referring to this last AGE that started with the preaching of the gospel....

We all have the ability to read the written word. Some will understand what they read and others will not. Some of us are blinded to the spiritual meaning.

I see.
So YOUR claim is that the Spirit only opens the eyes of SOME Christians then ?
Sorry, but that ISNT what Gods word SHOWS, friend.

It is not me claiming anything FOC. I quoted scripture. I will add to that....

• Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Look around this world at all the "Christians." Do you believe we all see? Brother will be against brother (and are now). Meaning....Christian brothers!

• Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in My name, saying 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many.

I believe coming in His name means....as a Christian.

In the end of days many will fall into apostasy, many Christians will fall!

 

[Joe67]

An important testimony of the Spirit of Jesus through one of the 12 disciples who were sent out as apostles.

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. KJV

When he justifies us he gives us to abide in him. When he sanctifies us he comes and abides in us as a member of his Body and sets us apart for service to the elect who are still living with the bondwoman and her children, the lost sheep of the house. This sanctification gives us power to suffer in service to the weak.

John 15:7-11
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. KJV

Joe

 

[Free]

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in My name, saying 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many.


I believe coming in His name means....as a Christian.

The context is clear: coming in His name means claiming to be the Christ, the Messiah.


Is there a point to this thread?

 

[whirlwind]

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in My name, saying 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many.


I believe coming in His name means....as a Christian.

The context is clear: coming in His name means claiming to be the Christ, the Messiah.


Is there a point to this thread?

Satan works with deception. How deceiving would it be for every Tom, Dick and Harry to claim to be Jesus? The verse said...."many shall come in My name." The many claim His name, not to be Him but to be of Him and through that they deceive many.

To some there is a point to the thread. To others, apparently not. :verysad

 

[whirlwind]

An important testimony of the Spirit of Jesus through one of the 12 disciples who were sent out as apostles.

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. KJV

When he justifies us he gives us to abide in him. When he sanctifies us he comes and abides in us as a member of his Body and sets us apart for service to the elect who are still living with the bondwoman and her children, the lost sheep of the house. This sanctification gives us power to suffer in service to the weak.

John 15:7-11
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. KJV

Joe

Thank you again Joe....another wonderful lesson.

 

[Free]

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in My name, saying 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many.


I believe coming in His name means....as a Christian.

The context is clear: coming in His name means claiming to be the Christ, the Messiah.


Is there a point to this thread?

Satan works with deception. How deceiving would it be for every Tom, Dick and Harry to claim to be Jesus? The verse said...."many shall come in My name." The many claim His name, not to be Him but to be of Him and through that they deceive many.

No. The verse very clearly equates "coming in My name" with "claiming to be the Messiah". There is still a Jewish sect that continuously has a potential Messiah. There were many that claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and there still are those claiming to be the Messiah. This verse is not about those who accept Jesus as Lord.

 

[whirlwind]

Satan works with deception. How deceiving would it be for every Tom, Dick and Harry to claim to be Jesus? The verse said...."many shall come in My name." The many claim His name, not to be Him but to be of Him and through that they deceive many.

No. The verse very clearly equates "coming in My name" with "claiming to be the Messiah". There is still a Jewish sect that continuously has a potential Messiah. There were many that claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and there still are those claiming to be the Messiah. This verse is not about those who accept Jesus as Lord.

But who do the wicked fight against? Who do and will they deceive?

• Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those who have His testimony are "those who accept Jesus as Lord." "Many" Christians wouldn't be deceived by "many" Jewish folks pretending to be Christ. Or at least....that's how I see it.

 

[Free]

Satan works with deception. How deceiving would it be for every Tom, Dick and Harry to claim to be Jesus? The verse said...."many shall come in My name." The many claim His name, not to be Him but to be of Him and through that they deceive many.

No. The verse very clearly equates "coming in My name" with "claiming to be the Messiah". There is still a Jewish sect that continuously has a potential Messiah. There were many that claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and there still are those claiming to be the Messiah. This verse is not about those who accept Jesus as Lord.

But who do the wicked fight against? Who do and will they deceive?

• Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those who have His testimony are "those who accept Jesus as Lord." "Many" Christians wouldn't be deceived by "many" Jewish folks pretending to be Christ. Or at least....that's how I see it.

I think you have to get "Christians" out of your head. Jesus was speaking to Jews, warning that many would come claiming to be the Messiah. If we extend what Jesus said to Christians, it would be false Christ's, such as that of Gnosticism or Mormonism, to name only two. The passage is about those who claim to be Christ, not those who claim his lordship over them.

 

[Adullam]

From the Holy Spirit....whither He chooses. So it could be through a man as well. A man that is being prompted by the Spirit. :yes

 

[whirlwind]

No. The verse very clearly equates "coming in My name" with "claiming to be the Messiah". There is still a Jewish sect that continuously has a potential Messiah. There were many that claimed to be the Jewish Messiah and there still are those claiming to be the Messiah. This verse is not about those who accept Jesus as Lord.

But who do the wicked fight against? Who do and will they deceive?

• Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those who have His testimony are "those who accept Jesus as Lord." "Many" Christians wouldn't be deceived by "many" Jewish folks pretending to be Christ. Or at least....that's how I see it.

I think you have to get "Christians" out of your head. Jesus was speaking to Jews, warning that many would come claiming to be the Messiah. If we extend what Jesus said to Christians, it would be false Christ's, such as that of Gnosticism or Mormonism, to name only two. The passage is about those who claim to be Christ, not those who claim his lordship over them.

Speaking to Jews? He was speaking to His disciples about the end of days....we too are His disciples.

• Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter yet not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
  
  15:24 But He answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

The house of Judah (Jews) and the house of Israel are still split today. Both houses are all of Israel but not all Israel are Jews. [Ezekiel 37:24-25] shows us that the two houses, the two sticks, will not be one stick again until we have "one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them."

The question would be....who are the "lost sheep of the house of Israel?" Who are those that proudly claim His name and have His testimony today? They are those the dragon makes war with.

• Revelation 13:7-8 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

There are many Christians, as written above, that will be "overcome" by his deception.

 

[Sparkey]

I think you have to get "Christians" out of your head. Jesus was speaking to Jews, warning that many would come claiming to be the Messiah.

Kindly curb your dogma. The Bible is more than a history book. The book of Jude and the 2nd letter from John were not addressed solely to "Jews", now were they? We can think of many many examples where the apparent audience is not the true target audience. Even the saints of old who were under the previous agreement (the agreement based on Law and not Grace) wondered about these things and it was shown to them that what they inquired about, why the H.S. acted on them in such a "strange manner", was done for reason. They asked and diligently sought to know the why of the way of God and the answer was that they were examples for us who would come later.

If our sister Whirlwind gleans truth from statements of CHRIST Jesus that are applicable to her heart today who are you to say that she is wrong? By what authority do you declare that the word given into her heart by the Holy Spirit (who is her Teacher and Comforter) is wrong? Is it proper for the workers hired by Boaz to disobey him by rebuking Ruth herself? I think no.

I do know and respect the fact that you are moderator here on the forum but that does not ensure that you are speaking with "Papal Infallibility". In point of fact even the pope himself does not do that. Free, I'm certain that you agree that only the Holy Spirit is able to interpret the word of Truth to us.

I do understand the general principles of hermeneutics and wouldn't wish to enjoin an argument or dispute about such things and only want to say that such things can not limit God nor His Spirit nor the way He chooses to reveal His truth to His children. I would defend your right to hear from our Father those things that He speaks into your heart with the same vehemence.

When we focus our thoughts into the specifics of one scripture ("coming in His Name") and the meaning of that single phrase we miss the forest for the trees (so to speak). We are actually missing the trees by looking too closely at the pine-cones are we not? The topic title itself is: "Learning from the Holy Spirit or man?"

~Sparrowhawke

 

[Vic C.]

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in My name, saying 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many.

I believe coming in His name means....as a Christian.

The context is clear: coming in His name means claiming to be the Christ, the Messiah.

Is there a point to this thread?

Free, look below your post and know you pointed out the point to this thread. The clear literal meaning of the text is being partly being ignored and personal thoughts and spiritual inclinations are being interjected into it's meaning. :help Is the HS really in these personal interpretations? Let the reader decide.

When we focus our thoughts into the specifics of one scripture ("coming in His Name") and the meaning of that single phrase we miss the forest for the trees (so to speak). We are actually missing the trees by looking too closely at the pine-cones are we not? The topic title itself is: "Learning from the Holy Spirit or man?"

Sparrow, this is exactly what is happening around here lately. People are interjecting their private interpretations into text in the name of the HS. People use this sort of tactic a lot. Now, I have no problems with taking scripture and applying it to our daily walk, but to use it this way and teach it as though it is Biblical truth or doctrine is a bit of a stretch.

Free, whether he be a Moderator or not, has the right to question another brother or sister's beliefs. :amen