Leaving your church

[Classik]

So, why do people leave their former churches? Bad music? Sermon? Quarrel? Discomfort? Boring environment?:dunno

 

[Northman]

Moving maybe? As good of a reason as any. Or maybe after the head pastor and one of the administrator ladies run off with the building fund that was a good part compromised of the last bit of a widows remaining insurance from her dead husband. Probably another good reason to grab the kid and run.

 

[Classik]

LOL.

Moving:nod

Doctrinal differences?

 

[Tony Hyman]

Or could also be that believers are more inclined to trust and get along with non-believers ,in everyday walk of life,than they are towards their so-called Christian brothers and sisters in the Church.Im thinking in terms of the self and other jealousy and control issues ,which cramp the growth of the Spirit 1 Thes.5:19.

 

[Classik]

Or could also be that believers are more inclined to trust and get along with non-believers ,in everyday walk of life,than they are towards their so-called Christian brothers and sisters in the Church.Im thinking in terms of the self and other jealousy and control issues ,which cramp the growth of the Spirit 1 Thes.5:19.

Well. A woman bade a farewell and was totally gone. She said the members of the church didn't care to recognise or visit her. She was just lonely...

 

[texascowgirl.com]

Because God said he will draw all men and the churches teach false. He is taking them out. He is going to get back all his lost sheep that the preachers led astray.

 

[Obadiah]

I'm sure their reasons are as varied as the people who have left. Several times I left a church because I was offered a position at another church. I've also left a couple of churches because after spending enough time in them I learned that they had ways of doing things that I just couldn't deal with.

 

[WIP]

I assume this topic is talking about leaving the local church or denomination and not the Body.

Our entire congregation, after years of debate, prayer, hope, prayer, time, prayer,..., made the decision to leave a major denomination due to what we determined were irreconcilable differences in doctrine and quite frankly seemed to acknowledge, support, and even embrace certain sinful behavior. The former denomination was formed over 20 years ago by the merging of multiple denominations and at that time our congregation unanimously voted against the formation but because we were one part of a 3-point parish we elected to go along with the flow and hope our fears would not come to reality. As time went one we could see the reality was leaning more and more toward our fears until finally things got to the point where we felt we would not be able to invoke or realize a change of direction that we hoped for and so two of our 3-point congregations chose to disassociate from the denomination. We are still served by the same pastor. Although, he does agree with our view but chose to remain associated as a pastor in the hopes that he could still help improve things some time down the road. It was not an easy decision. I recall we debated just that decision for three years before we finally chose to draft our proposition.

 

[Brother Mike]

So, why do people leave their former churches? Bad music? Sermon? Quarrel? Discomfort? Boring environment?

We should not be in a place God did not direct us to go, and certainly should not leave until the Lord says go. Natural issues, being offended are not being Spirit led but flesh led.

Sadly, most don't take the body of Christ or church seriously enough and just find something that suits what they want to believe without any direction from the Holy Spirit at all. They leave when they get offended and come when it's convenient.

I left my Pastor Position when the Lord said ............. Move to Branson.

I had no idea where Branson was, and certainly was not thinking about moving at all. I was just praying about some doctrinal issues in the place I was Pasturing at. Leaving was not on the list of things to do, and certainly not moving out of state.

I spent a few days in prayer to make sure I was just not thinking up dumb things on my own that did not make sense. I had no money to move, did not know anyone in Branson and my family, job and everything was in Champaign IL. I also was Pasturing the Sunday Morning Church, so "MOVE TO BRANSON" was pretty out there.

After praying a few days the Lord spoke more loud, "I said take your family and Move to Branson, You are to learn there."

Well, good enough for me, we scraped up our 300.00, put our stuff in storage, packed the mini van and just drove to Branson.

Go only where God says go, Never leave until the Lord says leave, and it's not based on natural circumstances. I have seen so many get out of the will of God being Job led, or being better place to live led and not Spirit led.

Money, feelings and things make a lousy God, yet people follow that.

Mike.

 

[Classik]

Very well said, Mike.

 

[Obadiah]

Many good points there Mike. But I'm wondering about what you mean by "Natural issues, being offended are not being Spirit led but flesh led"? I understand we probably shouldn't leave a church just because Mary said she didn't like the style of clothes you wear or Joe told you to grow up. That kind of "offended" probably isn't a spiritual reason for leaving. But what if what offended you was something that also showed you this church, or perhaps many of it's people, are following a false doctrine or refusing to follow scriptural ways of doing things? I'll be specific. I left a church one time where I had worked with the youth because I was offended. What offended me deeply was when the president of the congregation officially informed me in a board meeting that I was no longer to allow "those black kids" into the youth group. (In the years leading up to this the neighborhood had become about 60% black and I had taught the youth to evangelize in the neighborhood. So naturally black kids starting to come to what had been a traditionally white church.) His order to exclude these kids based on their skin color offended me deeply, and he stuck to his position. No other board members or the pastor seemed to challenge his statement then or in the future, so I left the church. Would you consider this to have been a proper choice on my part?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

So, why do people leave their former churches? Bad music? Sermon? Quarrel? Discomfort? Boring environment?

So many reasons. I think a primary reason is that disagreement over doctrine arises.

 

[Northman]

[MENTION=45432]WIP[/MENTION] and [MENTION=93344]Obadiah[/MENTION] Us that are the common men are grateful for the positions you hold and wisdom you are given to lead. Not jealous of that sort of role one bit.

Go only where God says go, Never leave until the Lord says leave, and it's not based on natural circumstances. I have seen so many get out of the will of God being Job led, or being better place to live led and not Spirit led.

Agree and disagree. For most of us, God does speak through the natural. Its crystal clear from scripture where Paul tells us that if one is out of work or not able to contribute, then they are to find a way to do so. For lots of people, especially in small towns, this means moving to aquire another means to support ones family. We are not to be a burden. This would even include things like a dad losing his job and not finding anything but minimum wage, he should move. The agreement part is where you actually hear from God. If one gets a word or vision or whatever other means God uses to speak and tells you to NOT go anywhere, then by no means go anywhere. Waiting for a special type of communication from God(one that you specifically want) on such matters can and often do end up like [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] story about the guy on his roof that drowned.

Most things to do with anything can be found in the word. Leaders and others with special assignments, well like i said, we dont envy you.

 

[Brother Mike]

Many good points there Mike. But I'm wondering about what you mean by "Natural issues, being offended are not being Spirit led but flesh led"? I understand we probably shouldn't leave a church just because Mary said she didn't like the style of clothes you wear or Joe told you to grow up. That kind of "offended" probably isn't a spiritual reason for leaving. But what if what offended you was something that also showed you this church, or perhaps many of it's people, are following a false doctrine or refusing to follow scriptural ways of doing things? I'll be specific. I left a church one time where I had worked with the youth because I was offended. What offended me deeply was when the president of the congregation officially informed me in a board meeting that I was no longer to allow "those black kids" into the youth group. (In the years leading up to this the neighborhood had become about 60% black and I had taught the youth to evangelize in the neighborhood.

That is a very Good question. Make no mistake, people think it's time to leave a church because someone offended them, or the Pastor preaches something they don't agree with. It has cost people the plan of God for their lives as we are suppose to be connected to the body of believers and be in the Body of believers God put us.

So, If I teach on Sunday, but the next 5 Sunday's they have someone else teach and I have to monitor the bathrooms to keep them clean is not me hearing God that they don't value His gifts in my life and anointing. It's me Hearing God that I help wherever asked to help and be a part.

What offended me deeply was when the president of the congregation officially informed me in a board meeting that I was no longer to allow "those black kids" into the youth group.

I had a young youth Pastor sit in my home and ask me this type of question. His head Pastor told him that the anointing was not important for youth's Singing and He was going to put someone else in charge of the praise and worship. He believed in His heart that the Pastor was wrong and hurting these Kids.

You believed that this discrimination was wrong against the black Youth. I would not have liked the statement since most my time ministering was to black, drug addicts and gang memebers, so I have a heart for these folks.

I asked this young Pastor One Question:

1) Did God tell you to attended that Church?

The answer was yes He said, He prayed about it and was suppose to go there.

Same question you have to ask yourself Obadiah.........

Let's say that the answer is .......... "I am not really sure."

The same answer to the question would be for both answers......... God sent me there, I am not sure God sent me there.

Number one rule........................ "I Obadiah am never led by being offended."

Lets look at some facts.

You have the mind of Christ.
You are led by the Spirit of God being a son of God.
All things work together for the good to those that love God and called to the place according to God's purpose.
You are the light of the world.
God gives you Wisdom liberally and never holds it back from you.

Those kids need those things when the enemy comes in to manipulate.

We still follow leadership, still obey, still do what we are asked, but we have one thing on our side if we are right, and that is GOD!!!! We can still pray, still believe and know the situation will change.

I am not putting you down, you were at where you were at............ There is a better more powerful way though.

There are spiritual laws in place. Satan moves in, God needs a man in. You can be that man. If we just stay when these things happen and keep the enemies back against the wall with prayer, He has to let up and God will move people out of the way quickly. If we get offended and leave, then the enemy wins.

What would happen if you stayed and said, "NO devil, These kids will be allowed, and God will move or change whoever is in the way of that."

The Church I was asked by the Lord to Pastor had polar opposites of what I believed. Lots of my time was spent just obeying the head Pastor, running His Sunday morning service and He ran the night service. Only if asked would I come to His night service and teach because those folks hated me. I was there for the Lord, so if I got offended I was just getting offended at God for being where I was told to be.

Because I was there, a whole bunch of new people came in and lots of cool things happened for the Pastor that did not believe like I did. Everyone got help, because I submitted and just smiled though I wanted to punch some of his night teachers for teaching stupid things.

Obadiah You can choose to be the Light, the tower, the man God goes to and uses as God still loves dumb people, making dumb choices for their churches. You can be like everyone else and get offended and leave. Offense is the number one reason people leave church, and it's not God.

If God told you to be someplace then what's it matter what they do, your there for a reason and God will get done what He needs done.


That young Pastor 7 months of submitting and stepping down now runs all the youth and the singing in the Holy Spirit, the other two bad guys left, and the kids are getting what they are suppose to get.

Mike.

 

[Obadiah]

What would happen if you stayed and said, "NO devil, These kids will be allowed, and God will move or change whoever is in the way of that."

See, the human part of me wants to justify leaving. But the Spirit in me tells me there is much truth in what you have said. This was many years ago and even though many told me I was spiritually mature for my age I still had far to go. (And probably had let those kind of compliments go to my head some.) Looking back, I have realized for a long time that leaving at that time did hurt my ministry. I only quoted this one small part of what you wrote because you can't possibly know how powerfully true it was, in a rather frightening way too.

During that meeting I spoke of, there was one deacon who told the congregation president that one day this church may even have a black pastor. The president defiantly stated "OVER MY DEAD BODY", got up, and stormed out of the meeting. Six months later he was unexpectedly dead. Six months after that, the church did have that black pastor and most of the handful of racists that supported the late president had also left. Sadly, I was gone too. I have to admit you are right. I should have stayed.

PS; Since that time, I have not once used that saying "over my dead body" and never will unless I am ready for God to take me!

 

[Classik]

He is right when he said, and I paraphrase, we only leave when God says so. I totally agree with this.


You left because the pastor treated those blacks unfairly? And I was just wondering: 'what if GOD wanted you to stay and put an end to that kind of ugly situation? What if GOD sent you there to stay?



Also, I have realised that some pastors do things not to suit the body of Christ or the congregation...they do things to suit themselves. They work for their own satisfaction. There seems to be no such things as 'majority and vote' = the way a church should be ran (provided its the right step).
There is this pastor that was transfered. He was away for years and later came back to the first place. He didnt like the music. He prefers contemporary music and had to kind of force the band to play the kind of songs he likes. I figured out these are his likes.

Some reallly got offended 'cause the preffer ancient stuff.


This may sound strange: In my present location I told myself I'd only worship with any church where the choir is very good or where worship is very lively. I like an atmosphere where the youth lead, kinda - not where they are made to hide like rats running away from cats.

Seems that what attracts people to a church is the opposite to what makes them leave. Riddle?!;)

 

[Obadiah]

He is right when he said, and I paraphrase, we only leave when God says so. I totally agree with this.

Yes, this is right. I believe I was wrong.

I guess I should add that I also believe there ARE times when God leads people to new places, and the things God would use to do that are probably different for different people. But I don't believe God was leading my decision at that time.

 

[Brother Mike]

During that meeting I spoke of, there was one deacon who told the congregation president that one day this church may even have a black pastor. The president defiantly stated "OVER MY DEAD BODY", got up, and stormed out of the meeting. Six months later he was unexpectedly dead. Six months after that, the church did have that black pastor and most of the handful of racists that supported the late president had also left. Sadly, I was gone too. I have to admit you are right. I should have stayed.

Looking back, I have realized for a long time that this did hurt my ministry. I only quoted this one small part of what you wrote because you can't possibly know how powerfully true it was, in a rather frightening way too.

Praise God!!! I have more to say, but this is good.

I just wrote what I was told to tell you as God is faithful to give answers and wisdom for things that have weighed on us to set us free from it and know we have a great Father that is always helping us and teaching us in line with His word.

I am also Suppose to mention that the whole key was to just do as God said do, In this case stay, be the light. However, it may also be leave and wipe the dust from your feet, they won't hear me says the Lord and I am sending you where they will.

We remove all emotions and resist offense to the utmost.

If God gives you a time machine to go back and fix this, I need to borrow it when your done to fix some of my spiritual goof ups.

Whatever the case, God is merciful and just makes us stronger for what is to come in Wisdom and the power of his might.

Then man died having what He said, for death and life are in the power of the Tongues and Jesus said we have what we say and believe. He would have rather died than Obey God, and Satan got his place.

Amazing testimony. Keep going forward, and now that you know, do what Paul said......... Don't ever look back again, keep forward for the prize and High calling to do all your made to do while here for this short time on Earth.

Blessings..

Mike.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I left my childhood church partly because I no longer agreed with the bulk of what they were teaching. Or the importance they placed on what I considered to be more trivial trivial and petty matters.

The other part was that I wasn't learning anything from them anymore. Just about every sermon was a repeat of what had been being said for years. Not only were the subjects in the sermons nothing new, but most of them sounded the same because pretty much every sermon the pastor spent an awful lot of time talking about his pet subjects.

 

[Classik]

I believe the problem is probably not with the sermon nor with its content. Its probably with how he taught you people.

We had a similar problem with one of our pastors. What the church did was transfer him. He was replaced.

Perhaps some are called to preach or teach about John 3:16 only. How about that???