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Legally Saved or Legally Lost

R

Robert Pate

Member
In the judgment everything will be decided by God's law. God is a God of law and judgment.

Paul wrote, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that which he has done, whether it be good or bad" 2 Corinthians 5:10.

This is the judgment of believers where they will receive rewards for their works, Matthew 6:1-4. Some may lose their reward because they were doing good works for the wrong reasons. Good works should always be done out of a heart full of gratitude and thanksgiving for what Christ has done for us.

There is another judgment known as the "Great White Throne Judgment" Revelation 20:11 This is the judgment of unbelievers. All that were not found in the book of life will be in this judgment. This judgment will be before the believer's judgment because it will determine who is saved and who is lost. Everything will be determined according to God's law. No one will be saved that has not been justified by Jesus Christ. Justification is the results of faith in Christ and his Gospel, Romans 3:28. In a court of law, one will either be justified or condemned. "By the deeds of the law (what we do) no flesh will be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20.

Jesus said, "Many will say to me in that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, didn't we....?" Matthew 7:21-23. These are people that believe they were saved by their works or obedience to the law. They were not legally saved because they were not justified by Jesus Christ. They rejected the Gospel and justification by faith and were trying to be saved by the deeds of the law (Religion). We must be justified by Jesus Christ or we will not see heaven. In the judgment Jesus will recognize those that are his by his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. They are the legally saved.

In the Gospel we are justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus Christ and now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. "There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ" Romans 8:1. This means that there is condemnation for those that are NOT in Christ. To be "In Christ" means to trust that Jesus Christ has fulfilled the law for you. It also means that Jesus Christ has atoned for your sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. This is why salvation is by faith alone. It is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. To believe otherwise means that you are not "In Christ" and have not been justified and are legally unsaved.
 
Calvinism is an attempt to go around Christ and his Gospel and be saved by predestination.

It's not going to work. No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. No one will enter heaven that has not been reconciled unto God by the doing and the dying of Jesus. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the entrance into eternal life. Without faith in Christ and his Gospel no one will be saved. You must personally receive and believe the Gospel, Ephesians 1:13.
 
Hey Robert Pate.
I believe the judgment seat of Christ and the GWTJ are the same thing,

If someone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1Cor.3:15

This shows that people along with works must survive the fire.
 
journeyman said:
Hey Robert Pate.
I believe the judgment seat of Christ and the GWTJ are the same thing,

If someone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1Cor.3:15

This shows that people along with works must survive the fire.
Click to expand...
Maybe.

The fire is going to try every man's works. There is going to be a huge bonfire and a lot of people are going to smell like smoke.
 
Robert Pate said:
These are people that believe they were saved by their works or obedience to the law. They were not legally saved because they were not justified by Jesus Christ. They rejected the Gospel and justification by faith and were trying to be saved by the deeds of the law (Religion).

In the Gospel we are justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus Christ . . . This is why salvation is by faith alone. It is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. To believe otherwise means that you are not "In Christ" and have not been justified and are legally unsaved.
Click to expand...

Robert Pate said:
Calvinism is an attempt to go around Christ and his Gospel and be saved by predestination.

It's not going to work. No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. No one will enter heaven that has not been reconciled unto God by the doing and the dying of Jesus. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the entrance into eternal life. Without faith in Christ and his Gospel no one will be saved. You must personally receive and believe the Gospel, Ephesians 1:13.
Click to expand...

Calvinism believes and teaches all the above, so it is not "an attempt to go around Christ and his Gospel and be saved by predestination." It would be good if you stopped misrepresenting what Calvinism teaches.
 
Robert Pate said:
Maybe.

The fire is going to try every man's works. There is going to be a huge bonfire and a lot of people are going to smell like smoke.
Click to expand...
All the elements of one judgment exist in the other. That and the fact that the end of death, the last enemy, is simultaneous with the new bodies believers are given, show that the GWTJ and judgment seat of Christ is the same event.
I also believe the "lake of fire", is simply the presence of Christ when he returns in all his glory.
 
journeyman said:
All the elements of one judgment exist in the other. That and the fact that the end of death, the last enemy, is simultaneous with the new bodies believers are given, show that the GWTJ and judgment seat of Christ is the same event.
I also believe the "lake of fire", is simply the presence of Christ when he returns in all his glory.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that "The lake of fire" is symbolic. It appears that it is a place where the souls of unbelievers will be destroyed, Revelation 21:8.
 
Robert Pate said:
I don't believe that "The lake of fire" is symbolic. It appears that it is a place where the souls of unbelievers will be destroyed, Revelation 21:8.
Click to expand...
To say, "have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death", can be understood to mean, the presence of God slew all the wicked and ended death forever after.
We've been conditioned to think of the lof as a place, but there's a lot of scripture showing Gods' presence as a destroying fire to the unsaved,

the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Thes.2:8

Paul is saying Christ destroys anti-Christ simply by his appearing.
 
journeyman said:
To say, "have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death", can be understood to mean, the presence of God slew all the wicked and ended death forever after.
We've been conditioned to think of the lof as a place, but there's a lot of scripture showing Gods' presence as a destroying fire to the unsaved,

the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Thes.2:8

Paul is saying Christ destroys anti-Christ simply by his appearing.
Click to expand...
2 Thessalonians chapter 2 is very interesting and very powerful.

What do you think Paul meant by the "Mystery of iniquity does already work" 2 Thessalonians 2:7.
 
journeyman said:
I believe it's a process that has repeated itself throughout history,

even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
They went out from us.....1Jn.2:18-19
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The pope has embraced Islam. He calls it Chrislam. Google Chrislam for more information.
 
Robert Pate
logically.ai website has fact checked the claim and found it false.

See LINK

The headline claim being fact checked:

Pope Francis declared “Chrislam” as the One World Religion.​


A quote from the link:
A post on Facebook claims that Pope Francis recently declared “Chrislam,” a purported synthesis of Islam and Roman Catholicism, as the new One World Religion at the seventh meeting of the Congress of Leaders of World and Traditional Religions, held on September 14-15, 2022. The web article in the post falsely asserts that the recent meeting of the congress ratified and codified a document named the 'Document on Human Fraternity' when, in reality, the congress has done no such thing.
The post links to a website named "Now The End Begins," a fundamentalist Christian conspiracy theory website that frames current events as indicative of the realization of 'end-times' biblical prophecy.

In Fact

This post has no basis in reality.
And at the end:
Verdict

This claim has no basis in reality, and has been marked false accordingly.
 
Robert Pate said:
The pope has embraced Islam. He calls it Chrislam. Google Chrislam for more information.
Click to expand...
You need to produce the facts of what you say and not just tell others to go google surfing.

It was by a Yoruba man named Tela Tella who founded the Chrislam movement in Largos 1976.

en.wikipedia.org

Nigerian Chrislam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Pope has not embraced Islam, but the Pope, Islamic Imams, Arab League and the Middle East Quartet that comprises the U.S., Russia, the EU, the United Nations and possibly China who wants in on the peace plans are working on an agreement of who will govern Jerusalem as a peacemaker between the Arab countries and Israel.

www.theguardian.com

Pope and grand imam sign historic pledge of fraternity in UAE

In first papal visit to Arabian peninsula, Francis calls for end to wars in Middle East
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Robert Pate said:
The pope has embraced Islam. He calls it Chrislam. Google Chrislam for more information.
Click to expand...
Well, whatever deviates from what our Lord taught is error.
The Messiah taught how we should obey the law from the view that we need mercy.
When addressing the Rabbis', our Savior said,

you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. Mt.23:23

The law shows how I need to live by faith in his mercy to escape his justice.
 
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