Let's talk About Heaven

[Alabaster]

Ya....?....?...? I know.

That doesnt address the inaccuracy of your graphic though. :

The entire firmament is between the waters below and the waters above. The throne of God is in heaven so must be below the 'waters above'.

The illustration is accurate.

 

[Strangelove]

The illustration is accurate.

If you say the illustration is accurate then you are saying that God's Word is NOT accurate.

1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters,
and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were
under the firmament from the waters which were above the
firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the
morning were the second day.​

Heaven/fimament is BETWEEN the waters. Scripture is quite clear. God's throne room is in the 3rd heaven, which is part of the firmament which must be below the waters that are above the firmament.

It's ok to admit your wrong sometimes ya know. :

 

[Adstar]

I believe the 1000 years will happen on earth and Jesus will rule the earth with His saints as foretold in the Book of Revelation.

No fables just a clear reading of Revelation. Shows the chronology of the 1000 years.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

I believe the 1000 years will happen on earth and Jesus will rule the earth with His saints as foretold in the Book of Revelation.

No fables just a clear reading of Revelation. Shows the chronology of the 1000 years.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Is your Earthly millenial reign the same as the 'Kingdom of Heaven'?

 

[Adstar]

Is your Earthly millenial reign the same as the 'Kingdom of Heaven'?

Well that’s interesting to ponder on. I see the 1000 years for the resurrected saints who take part in it as being their 1000 years bonus head start in the Kingdom of Heaven. But i also believe that the Kingdom of heaven started on the day of Pentecost when it got it's first 12 members that we call the apostles. You and i are members of the Kingdom of Heaven in spirit. The Kingdom of Heaven started on the day of Pentecost and will continue on forever. The 1000 years is only a different stage that some will experience in their eternal forms.

I have heard an argument that the saints who take part in the 1000 year period will be all the saints who have been executed for their witness to God and added to them will be the small remnant of saints alive and on earth on the day of the Messiah's return. I am not sure about this but it seems a legitimate position.

At the end of the 1000 years after the final judgement then the Kingdom of Heaven will transformed into its Eternal form. At the end of the 1000 years the Messiah's reign does not come to an end, But the Kingdom in that configuration will end. Just as when Jesus comes at the second coming the current Kingdom in Spirit will no longer be in that configuration. At the end of the 1000 years, we "the saints" will no longer be ruling the world with Jesus. Because all peoples of the world will be from that time on eternal saints . So Jesus will be ruling us in the New Jerusalem on Earth.

I see the Kingdom of Heaven as consistent all the way through but while it is the same it morphs into different configurations.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

But i also believe that the Kingdom of heaven started on the day of Pentecost when it got it's first 12 members that we call the apostles. You and i are members of the Kingdom of Heaven in spirit. The Kingdom of Heaven started on the day of Pentecost and will continue on forever.

I see the Kingdom of Heaven as consistent all the way through but while it is the same it morphs into different configurations.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Ok I'm glad you think that the Kingdom of Heaven is now, and that Christ is currently our King and has been since the 1st century. He's not coming to be King.

So when the Kingdom of Heaven is mentioned by Jesus or the Apostles, its referring to Christs Kingdom. His spiritual Kingdom. Not an Earthly rule with an HQ in Jerusalem and a physical dominion over nations and a court and special Temple etc correct?

 

[Strangelove]

The 1000 years is only a different stage that some will experience in their eternal forms.

At the end of the 1000 years after the final judgement then the Kingdom of Heaven will transformed into its Eternal form.

Is this an accidental contradiction?

 

[Adstar]

Ok I'm glad you think that the Kingdom of Heaven is now, and that Christ is currently our King and has been since the 1st century. He's not coming to be King.

So when the Kingdom of Heaven is mentioned by Jesus or the Apostles, its referring to Christs Kingdom. His spiritual Kingdom. Not an Earthly rule with an HQ in Jerusalem and a physical dominion over nations and a court and special Temple etc correct?

Well if you read my post then you will see that i believe Jesus will come back to earth as He left (in His body) and He will rule on earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years. From what i have read the temple will be rebuilt. But the only fest that will be happening will be the Feast of Tabernacles. This has nothing to do with sin offerings.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Is this an accidental contradiction?

No. The only eternal element of the 1000 years will be the saints resurrected at the first resurrection that happens at the start of the 1000 years (oh and Jesus of course).

The 1000 years form of the kingdom will only last 1000 years and then after the final judgement it will be transformed into it's eternal state along with all those who are added to the saints who where transformed into their eternal state back at the start of the 1000 years.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

No. The only eternal element of the 1000 years will be the saints resurrected at the first resurrection that happens at the start of the 1000 years (oh and Jesus of course).

The 1000 years form of the kingdom will only last 1000 years and then after the final judgement it will be transformed into it's eternal state along with all those who are added to the saints who where transformed into their eternal state back at the start of the 1000 years.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

So our glorified incorruptable bodies will be living in a corruptable Earthly kingdom for a 1000 years?

 

[Adstar]

So our glorified incorruptable bodies will be living in a corruptable Earthly kingdom for a 1000 years?

Yes that’s what i believe will happen. We shall be ruling this earth. Some will rule 1 city while others will have 10 cities under their control as in the parable of the Minas that Jesus told. I see it as a 1000 year bonus. A 1000 year Sabbath.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

Yes that’s what i believe will happen. We shall be ruling this earth. Some will rule 1 city while others will have 10 cities under their control as in the parable of the Minas that Jesus told. I see it as a 1000 year bonus. A 1000 year Sabbath.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

When we are raised do we not inherit an incorruptable Kingdom?

15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.​

 

[Alabaster]

Yes that’s what i believe will happen. We shall be ruling this earth. Some will rule 1 city while others will have 10 cities under their control as in the parable of the Minas that Jesus told. I see it as a 1000 year bonus. A 1000 year Sabbath.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Amen!

 

[reba]

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 

[Adstar]

When we are raised do we not inherit an incorruptable Kingdom?

15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Yes as i stated when we are resurected at the coming of the Messiah Jesus we will be in our eternal bodies and we will be transformed in Spirit also. We will be in the Kingdom of God in both Eternal Flesh and Spirit. We shall never die again and we shall be with Jesus always from that moment on.

The end of the 1000 years is not the end of the Kingdom but the final transformation.

You yourself state that the Kingdom started at Pentecost. Now people who received the Holy Spirit where part of the Kingdom correct? Did they live their lives in a kingdom where everything was perfect where they have perfect bodies? No.

So what's the problem with a 1000 year period where those who have believed and died for the Word of God get the opportunity to rule earth with God and receive a 1000 year early mark into eternity?

The book of Revelation says.

Revelation 20
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

These people live and reagin with Jesus for 1000 years Before the final resurrection. It's called the first resurrection for a reason, because there will be a second resurrection where some will also join them as eternal saints with God.

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

You yourself state that the Kingdom started at Pentecost. Now people who received the Holy Spirit where part of the Kingdom correct? Did they live their lives in a kingdom where everything was perfect where they have perfect bodies? No.

Ok...I myself am also working with a two stage model. The Kingdom started with Pentacost but that is the SPIRITUAL Kingdom. And then when we are raised at the second advent on the last day (which is also the day of Judgement 'last day') thats when we have New Earth with New Jerusalem.....with our glorified bodies.

So what's the problem with a 1000 year period where those who have believed and died for the Word of God get the opportunity to rule earth with God and receive a 1000 year early mark into eternity?

Problem is corruption (our bodies before ressurection) cannot inherit incorruption (New Jerusalem). We inherit incorruption. The so called millenial reign is not incorruption. It doesnt make sense.

What about the 'last day'? Both the second advent AND judgement are said to happen on the 'last day'.

 

[reba]

Revelation 20
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

These people live and reagin with Jesus for 1000 years Before the final resurrection. It's called the first resurrection for a reason, because there will be a second resurrection where some will also join them as eternal saints with God.

So only those beheaded rule for a 1000 years ?

 

[elijah23]

I think it will turn out that heaven is the peace of mind that comes from a clear conscience.

After all, what does it matter where you are if you have no peace?

And what does it matter where you are if you ARE at peace?

 

[Alabaster]

I think it will turn out that heaven is the peace of mind that comes from a clear conscience.

After all, what does it matter where you are if you have no peace?

And what does it matter where you are if you ARE at peace?

That's all fine and dandy, cerebrally, but the Lord teaches us of a place that is prepared for us.

 

[elijah23]

That's all fine and dandy, cerebrally, but the Lord teaches us of a place that is prepared for us.

We will pass on to the resurrection, I would think.

I’m not sure that’s what the Lord is talking about, though. When we do his will, not only do we have enormous peace of mind, but he has fulfilling daily activities already planned for us. I think that is what he is talking about, and it is true both here on earth and in the resurrection.