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Alabaster
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Heaven is a place our spirits immediately go to when we die. The resurrection is another event entirely.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Let's talk About Heaven
- Thread starter TRUTH over TRADITION
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Heaven is a place our spirits immediately go to when we die. The resurrection is another event entirely.
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elijah23
Guest
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Alabaster
Guest
The resurrection is an EVENT. Heaven is a place, where the throne of God is.
As far as a state of mind goes, one can be so heavenly-minded he's no earthy good!
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
The term 'resurrection' comes from the Greek 'Anastasis' which refers to standing erect again (stop smiling, we're mature adults). To think of a resurrection as anything other than being made alive again is simply adding to its definition.
The question we are faced with is about what the 'spirit' is that man has. Eccl 12:7 tells us that when we die that this spirit (unseen force, breath, or wind, NOT to be confused with ghost which is a totally different word with a much different meaning) will return to God who gave it. Many believe that this spirit is us, our "inner man." Is that really the case, or is this spirit actually a force from God that quickened our fleshly bodies making us souls (living creatures)?
The question we are faced with is about what the 'spirit' is that man has. Eccl 12:7 tells us that when we die that this spirit (unseen force, breath, or wind, NOT to be confused with ghost which is a totally different word with a much different meaning) will return to God who gave it. Many believe that this spirit is us, our "inner man." Is that really the case, or is this spirit actually a force from God that quickened our fleshly bodies making us souls (living creatures)?
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Alabaster
Guest
Jesus tells us God is in heaven--a PLACE!
Mattthew 6:9 NLT
Pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
There is a place being prepared THERE for His own:
John 14:2-3 NLT
There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am.
Mattthew 6:9 NLT
Pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
There is a place being prepared THERE for His own:
John 14:2-3 NLT
There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
Heaven definately is a place, but WHO has this place been prepared for and promised to according to scripture?
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elijah23
Guest
The resurrection is an EVENT. Heaven is a place, where the throne of God is.
As far as a state of mind goes, one can be so heavenly-minded he's no earthy good!
No, the resurrection is a place:
[29] But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God.
[30] For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Matt 22: 29-30 RSV
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elijah23
Guest
I will tell you the same thing I told Alabaster:
No, the resurrection is a place:
[29] But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God.
[30] For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Matt 22: 29-30 RSV
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elijah23
Guest
Where does the Bible say heaven is a place, and not a state of mind?
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Alabaster
Guest
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Alabaster
Guest
That simply means that when the resurrection takes place....
So, where are those angels, eh? In a state of mind?
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elijah23
Guest
Where in the Bible does it say heaven is a state of mind?
I'm waiting.
Find out for yourself:
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
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elijah23
Guest
That simply means that when the resurrection takes place....
So, where are those angels, eh? In a state of mind?
Angels are people who do the Lord’s will, I think.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
Seems like an event from the way it is rendered in scripture.............
The picture painted by scripture seems to indicate that Heaven is indeed a real place. Isaiah 66:1 says that Heaven is God's Throne and the Earth his footstool. Jesus, in John said the following:
Chp 14
1 ‘Now, don’t let your hearts be troubled; just have faith in God and have faith in me. 2 There are many places to stay in my Father’s house… if this weren’t so, I wouldn’t have told you that I’m going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I’m going to prepare a place for you, I will also return and take you with me, so you’ll be where I am… 4 and then you’ll know the way to where I’m going.’
Chp 3
10 And Jesus answered, ‘You’re a teacher of IsraEl, and yet you don’t know? 11 I tell you the truth; We know what we’re saying and we’re testifying to things that we’ve seen; but you aren’t accepting our testimony… 12 and if you don’t believe the earthly things, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13 ‘No one has gone to heaven other than he who came from heaven, the Son of Man.
and Paul had this to say in 2 Cor:
1 Yes, although it isn’t good, I have to brag! Allow me to pass along some supernatural visions and revelations from [the] Lord:
2 I know a man in the Anointed One, who some fourteen years ago (whether [it happened] in the body or out of the body, I don’t know, only God knows) was caught away (in whatever state) into the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man (whether [it happened] in the body or apart from the body I don’t know, only God knows), 4 who was caught away into paradise and heard unspeakable things that are illegal for a man to say.
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elijah23
Guest
An amazing transformation takes place in our lives when we repent of our sin. I believe that is the purpose of this Scripture:
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
You don’t go to heaven by dying. You go to heaven by repenting.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
The scripture you quote has nothing to do with heaven. It is Jesus proclaiming to his countrymen that the kingdom that had been prophesied (see Daniel 2) was about to be founded within the lifetimes of those who heard him. Jesus began proclaiming the nearness of the long awaited Kingdom of God prophesied by the prophet Daniel after He had been Anointed and filled with Holy Breath at His baptism. His proclaimation was initially made to Jews and Israel only as He wanted to make sure that they were told that He was the King/Messiah/Anointed One that was to be the King of that Kingdom. He confirmed His claim with signs and wanders and He gave select individuals the ability to exhibit many and more of the signs that He exhibited. These individuals became known as His apostles and the after Jesus death, resurrection, and ascension to the throne at The father's right hand continued to spread Jesus' message and warned as He had of the soon coming wrath.
They became the leaders of Jesus' community on the Earth that came to be called Christians. This community started off as a Jewish community, but eventually became one that was made up of Jews and non Jews alike. To be a part of the community of called ones a person had to of course hear the message of Jesus, believe it, and be willing to foresake their own life for the Kingdom. As circumcision was a mark of the covenant between Israel and The Father, water baptism became the mark of the covenant betwen the called ones and Jesus. The ones who entered into this covenant through baptism were given the gift of Holy breath (the Holy Spirit) as a seal. This (the seal of Holy Breath) was either given miraculously from Jesus himself or by the laying on of the apostle's hands. Those of this covenant were called upon to repent from lifestyles of sin and to commit to righteousness and love for one another and were promised exceedingly great things as they awaited the return of Jesus which they expected to occur within their generation's lifetime.
Here are some examples of Jesus proclaiming the kingdom (kingdom isn't equal to heaven BTW):
After Jesus was resurrected, He received the Kingdom.
He was resurrected from the dead and Declared to Be the Son of God
Rom 1
1 Paul, a slave of Jesus the Anointed One, who is called an Apostle, and who was set aside for the good news of God, 2 which He promised through His Prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 that tell about His Son, who came in the flesh from the seed of David, 4 and who proved to be God’s Son in a powerful way, when he (by the Holy Breath [of God]) was resurrected from the dead.
II. He Was Given Reign to the Prophesied Kingdom
Daniel 2:
44 ‘And in the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a Kingdom of the ages that will never be corrupted, and His Kingdom will not be passed on to others. It will crush and sift all kingdoms, and it will stand through the ages.
Acts 2:
22 ‘Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene was a man who was shown to you by God with power, omens, and signs that God performed through him in your midst, as you already know. 23 Yes, you gave this person (who received his advice and his ability to see the future from God) over to the hands of men who were without Law, and you nailed him up. 24 But God resurrected him, freeing him from the cords of death, because it wasn’t possible for [death] to hold him............31 So, [David] looked into the future and spoke about the resurrection of the Anointed One… that he wouldn’t be abandoned in the grave and that his flesh wouldn’t see corruption. 32 ‘Then this Jesus was resurrected by God, and we are all witnesses to that… 33 he was lifted to God’s right hand, where he received the Holy Breath (which the Father had promised). And he’s the one who has poured out all of this that you’re seeing and hearing. 34 ‘Now, David didn’t go to heaven, but he said:
Jehovah said to my Lord;
Sit down at my right hand
35 Until I set your enemies as a stool for your feet.
36 So, let the entire House of Israel know for sure that God made this Jesus whom you impaled the Lord and Anointed One!
Acts 5
29 Then Peter and the Apostles replied: ‘We must obey God as ruler rather than men! 30 For the God of our fathers raised this Jesus – whom you abused then hung on a pole – 31 then God lifted him to His right hand to be the primary leader and savior, and to cause Israel to repent so He could forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses to these things… as is the Holy Breath that God gave to those who are obeying Him as their ruler.’
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elijah23
Guest
I disagree.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
Tell me, what scriptural basis leads you to conclude that the verse in question is not about the prophesied kingdom of Daniel but heaven instead.?
But this is not what the Book of Revelation says.
Revelation 19 verse 11 to 21 reveals the day of the Messiah's return and the destruction of the army of the beast in the battle called Ammagedon. Now traditionalists proclaim that this is the final battle of all time but no read the next chapter 20 verse 7 and 8. But i will go on:
Revelation chapter 20 verse 1 to 6 detail what will happen directly after the battle of Armageddon up to the start of the 1000 years.
Revelation chapter 20 verse 7 to 10 detail what happens at the end of the 1000 years with the final satanic rebellion that will be the Gog Magog battle, the true final battle.
Revelation Chapter 20 verse 11 to 15 details the final judgement that happens after this final rebellion is put down.
Only after this does the New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven. This New Jerusalem does not come down upon the day of the Messiahs second coming it happens 1000 years later. The best thing about the book of revelation in these chapters is the chronological way they are written. Even it tied into the next event, the 1000 years is tied into it, when satan is bound in the pit.
The raised saints who take part in the first resurrection do not inherit corruption. We are raised in our eternal bodies. We are given a 1000 year head start over others is all. Others on earth will live and die as before, for the next 1000 years and their descendants will be the ones that satan goes out into the world to deceive. satan will not be deceiving the saints. For the gog magog army that satan leads to Jerusalem will surround it And the Camp of the Saints.
Yes the Last day as in at the end of the 1000 years at the final judgement. But i am coming to suspect that only the saints who have died for their testimony for Jesus will be raised on the day of the second coming of the Messiah Jesus. And also the saints on earth who somehow survive the great tribulation and are alive on the day of His coming.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days